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Neville

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  • kizzyann sam
    I m sorry Neville i should not have placed the word race at the end of Mulatto, but the word Mulatto sometimes completely describes what a person would look
    Message 1 of 22 , Jun 1, 2005
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      I'm sorry Neville i should not have placed the word race at the end of
      Mulatto, but the word Mulatto sometimes completely describes what a person
      would look like. My great grandfather as i was told had very pale complexion
      and it was difficult for anyone to know he had a drop of black blood in him
      unless that information was given to them . So by me saying Mulatto, members
      of the group i hope have a better understanding of the person i am looking
      for, if they were asking another individual instead of a paper trail.

      >From: Neville Quelch <nquelch@...>
      >Reply-To: guyanese_genealogy@yahoogroups.com
      >To: guyanese_genealogy@yahoogroups.com
      >Subject: Re: [guyanese_genealogy] searching
      >Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 16:08:31 -0400 (EDT)
      >
      >Hello All:
      >
      >I have been reading all of the correspondence with great interest. I am
      >not searching for my family but enjoying the way you all have put energy
      >and time in helping each other. I have never before seen Guyanese working
      >together in a common cause since independence. Obviously it takes
      >politicians to screw-up the works. Please do not let any politicians in.
      >
      >I have one comment to make to Kizzyann. Mulatto is not a race. The
      >Americans used a one percent rule that stated if a person had 1% Black
      >blood then the person is Black. By using that rule, the various shades of
      >Black peoples have a common history. If that history is taken away, then
      >the people termed mulatto would be without a history or place in the world.
      > I certainly don't mind if some Blacks were called cocoa brown, peanut
      >brown, etc. At least they would be still be included as Blacks.
      >
      >With respect,
      >
      >Neville Quelch
      >
      >"Jon - Budmart.co.uk" <budmartuk@...> wrote:
      >Hello Kizzyann
      >
      >I will have a look and see what i can find out and get back to you in a few
      >days with any findings.
      >
      >Speak to you soon.
      >
      >Regards
      >
      >Jon
      >
      >kizzyasam <kaas79@...> wrote:
      >My name is Kizzyann sam I am searching for my mother's (Florence
      >Griffith) relatives.My mother was born in Bush Lot, Essequibo. All my
      >father's genealogy records are accounted for. All i have to track my
      >mother's side is very vage and almost non-exsistant, with names given
      >to her from my grandmother (Margaret Griffith) who was afraid my mother
      >would not be accepted into the family because of her skin color. My
      >grandmother's father came to Guyana,from Barbados and settled in the
      >pomeroon around early 1920'sor much earlier. His name was Griffith and
      >of the malatto race. My grandmother's mother family came from India
      >with the name...Cadeir... which the changed later to ....cadells... my
      >spelling of these names may be a bit off. I would really like to
      >reconect with this half of my family. If anyone has information i would
      >really appreciate it.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >Visit Budmart.co.uk for all your Collecting needs !
      >
      >
      >__________________________________________________
      >Do You Yahoo!?
      >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
      >http://mail.yahoo.com
      >
      >---------------------------------
      >Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      > To visit your group on the web, go to:
      >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/guyanese_genealogy/
      >
      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      >guyanese_genealogy-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >---------------------------------
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    • Jon - Budmart.co.uk
      Hello Neville and Kizzyann There are numerous ways of looking at the point. Overall any one that isn t White is Black, then you have the different categories
      Message 2 of 22 , Jun 2, 2005
      • 0 Attachment
        Hello Neville and Kizzyann
         
        There are numerous ways of looking at the point.
         
        Overall any one that isn't White is Black, then you have the different categories of Black - African, Indian, Mixed Heritage etc etc.
         
        There are a lot of people who have always considered themselves as "White" but have Black blood in them and they aren't aware of it until it has passed down the generations to their offspring.
         
        The term Mulatto is generally used in the Caribbean to describe someone who is either of mixed parentage (European/African) or of Mulatto parentage.
         
        They usually tend to be light skinned and have a mixture of European and African features.
         
        The terms Quadroon (a person having one-quarter African ancestry), Octoroon (a person whose ancestry is one-eighth African) and Quinteroon (a person who is one-sixteenth African; counted as White in some Countries) are also in use although less nowadays.
         
        These terms originate from the Colonial days especially in Spanish Colonies where your Racial make-up could affect your status in life and your inheritance, the laws were slightly more lax in the British Colonies.
         
        A lot of terms which are now deemed derogatory are still in common usage in the Caribbean where they aren't considered offensive or are considered less offensive as in other Regions.
         
        Refering to the Spanish terms, there are numerous terms such as Mestizo, Cafuzo, Sambo and various other terms of other Linguistic origins which describe the different mixes of African/European, African/Amerindian, African/East Indian, African/Chinese, Amerindian/European and East Indian/European and so on.
         
        I understood what you meant when you used the term Mulatto as meaning someone of mixed African and European heritage who is of a light-skinned complexion.
         
        Regards
         
        Jon
         

        kizzyann sam <kaas79@...> wrote:
        I'm sorry Neville i should not have placed the word race at the end of
        Mulatto, but the word Mulatto sometimes completely describes what a person
        would look like. My great grandfather as i was told had very pale complexion
        and it was difficult for anyone to know he had a drop of black blood in him
        unless that information was given to them . So by me saying Mulatto, members
        of the group i hope have a better understanding of the person i am looking
        for, if they were asking another individual instead of a paper trail.

        >From: Neville Quelch <nquelch@...>
        >Reply-To: guyanese_genealogy@yahoogroups.com
        >To: guyanese_genealogy@yahoogroups.com
        >Subject: Re: [guyanese_genealogy] searching
        >Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 16:08:31 -0400 (EDT)
        >
        >Hello All:
        >
        >I have been reading all of the correspondence with great interest.  I am
        >not searching for my family but enjoying the way you all have put energy
        >and time in helping each other.  I have never before seen Guyanese working
        >together in a common cause since independence.  Obviously it takes
        >politicians to screw-up the works.  Please do not let any politicians in.
        >
        >I have one comment to make to Kizzyann.  Mulatto is not a race.  The
        >Americans used a one percent rule that stated if a person had 1% Black
        >blood then the person is Black.  By using that rule, the various shades of
        >Black peoples have a common history.  If that history is taken away, then
        >the people termed mulatto would be without a history or place in the world.
        >  I certainly don't mind if some Blacks were called cocoa brown, peanut
        >brown,  etc.  At least they would be still be included as Blacks.
        >
        >With respect,
        >
        >Neville Quelch
        >
        >"Jon - Budmart.co.uk" <budmartuk@...> wrote:
        >Hello Kizzyann
        >
        >I will have a look and see what i can find out and get back to you in a few
        >days with any findings.
        >
        >Speak to you soon.
        >
        >Regards
        >
        >Jon
        >
        >kizzyasam <kaas79@...> wrote:
        >My name is Kizzyann sam I am searching for my mother's (Florence
        >Griffith) relatives.My mother was born in Bush Lot, Essequibo. All my
        >father's genealogy records are accounted for. All i have to track my
        >mother's side is very vage and almost non-exsistant, with names given
        >to her from my grandmother (Margaret Griffith) who was afraid my mother
        >would not be accepted into the family because of her skin color. My
        >grandmother's father came to Guyana,from Barbados and settled in the
        >pomeroon around early 1920'sor much earlier. His name was Griffith and
        >of the malatto race. My grandmother's mother family came from India
        >with the name...Cadeir... which the changed later to ....cadells... my
        >spelling of these names may be a bit off. I would really like to
        >reconect with this half of my family. If anyone has information i would
        >really appreciate it.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >Visit Budmart.co.uk for all your Collecting needs !
        >
        >
        >__________________________________________________
        >Do You Yahoo!?
        >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
        >http://mail.yahoo.com
        >
        >---------------------------------
        >Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >    To visit your group on the web, go to:
        >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/guyanese_genealogy/
        >
        >    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        >guyanese_genealogy-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        >    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >---------------------------------
        >Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals

        _________________________________________________________________
        Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!
        http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/



        Visit Budmart.co.uk for all your Collecting needs !

        __________________________________________________
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        Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
        http://mail.yahoo.com

      • alison roberts
        Dear Kizzyann, Your family may have been named Kadir and there are some of those listed in the Guyana Telephone Directory. Also, an amazing thing happenned in
        Message 3 of 22 , Jun 2, 2005
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          Dear Kizzyann,
           
          Your family may have been named Kadir and there are some of those listed in the Guyana Telephone Directory.
           
          Also, an amazing thing happenned in the post independence period, a number of people started chnging their names back so you may find some with the name you seek. Good luck.
           
          To enter this conversation I am Beatrice Alison Roberts, married Austin. I am seeking information on my mother and father's genealogy.
           
          My father's mother was from St. Lucia, her family are the Cenacs, Gustav, Nicholas, Xavier and Alexander. On his father's side, was Sue-a-Ling or Sue Ling and they lived in Linden.
           
          My mother was Agatha Enid Quelch and my father Milton Roberts
           
          I am also trying to complete my family tree.

          kizzyann sam <kaas79@...> wrote:
          I'm sorry Neville i should not have placed the word race at the end of
          Mulatto, but the word Mulatto sometimes completely describes what a person
          would look like. My great grandfather as i was told had very pale complexion
          and it was difficult for anyone to know he had a drop of black blood in him
          unless that information was given to them . So by me saying Mulatto, members
          of the group i hope have a better understanding of the person i am looking
          for, if they were asking another individual instead of a paper trail.

          >From: Neville Quelch <nquelch@...>
          >Reply-To: guyanese_genealogy@yahoogroups.com
          >To: guyanese_genealogy@yahoogroups.com
          >Subject: Re: [guyanese_genealogy] searching
          >Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 16:08:31 -0400 (EDT)
          >
          >Hello All:
          >
          >I have been reading all of the correspondence with great interest.  I am
          >not searching for my family but enjoying the way you all have put energy
          >and time in helping each other.  I have never before seen Guyanese working
          >together in a common cause since independence.  Obviously it takes
          >politicians to screw-up the works.  Please do not let any politicians in.
          >
          >I have one comment to make to Kizzyann.  Mulatto is not a race.  The
          >Americans used a one percent rule that stated if a person had 1% Black
          >blood then the person is Black.  By using that rule, the various shades of
          >Black peoples have a common history.  If that history is taken away, then
          >the people termed mulatto would be without a history or place in the world.
          >  I certainly don't mind if some Blacks were called cocoa brown, peanut
          >brown,  etc.  At least they would be still be included as Blacks.
          >
          >With respect,
          >
          >Neville Quelch
          >
          >"Jon - Budmart.co.uk" <budmartuk@...> wrote:
          >Hello Kizzyann
          >
          >I will have a look and see what i can find out and get back to you in a few
          >days with any findings.
          >
          >Speak to you soon.
          >
          >Regards
          >
          >Jon
          >
          >kizzyasam <kaas79@...> wrote:
          >My name is Kizzyann sam I am searching for my mother's (Florence
          >Griffith) relatives.My mother was born in Bush Lot, Essequibo. All my
          >father's genealogy records are accounted for. All i have to track my
          >mother's side is very vage and almost non-exsistant, with names given
          >to her from my grandmother (Margaret Griffith) who was afraid my mother
          >would not be accepted into the family because of her skin color. My
          >grandmother's father came to Guyana,from Barbados and settled in the
          >pomeroon around early 1920'sor much earlier. His name was Griffith and
          >of the malatto race. My grandmother's mother family came from India
          >with the name...Cadeir... which the changed later to ....cadells... my
          >spelling of these names may be a bit off. I would really like to
          >reconect with this half of my family. If anyone has information i would
          >really appreciate it.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >Visit Budmart.co.uk for all your Collecting needs !
          >
          >
          >__________________________________________________
          >Do You Yahoo!?
          >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
          >http://mail.yahoo.com
          >
          >---------------------------------
          >Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >    To visit your group on the web, go to:
          >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/guyanese_genealogy/
          >
          >    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          >guyanese_genealogy-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >---------------------------------
          >Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals

          _________________________________________________________________
          Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!
          http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/



          Beatrice Alison Roberts love always

          __________________________________________________
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        • Neville Quelch
          Hi Jon: Thanks for the lesson. It just goes to show what can be derived from the use of cheap labour in the production of economic goods. Enjoying this,
          Message 4 of 22 , Jun 2, 2005
          • 0 Attachment
            Hi Jon:
             
            Thanks for the lesson.  It just goes to show what can be derived from the use of cheap labour in the production of economic goods.
             
            Enjoying this,
             
            Neville

            "Jon - Budmart.co.uk" <budmartuk@...> wrote:
            Hello Neville and Kizzyann
             
            There are numerous ways of looking at the point.
             
            Overall any one that isn't White is Black, then you have the different categories of Black - African, Indian, Mixed Heritage etc etc.
             
            There are a lot of people who have always considered themselves as "White" but have Black blood in them and they aren't aware of it until it has passed down the generations to their offspring.
             
            The term Mulatto is generally used in the Caribbean to describe someone who is either of mixed parentage (European/African) or of Mulatto parentage.
             
            They usually tend to be light skinned and have a mixture of European and African features.
             
            The terms Quadroon (a person having one-quarter African ancestry), Octoroon (a person whose ancestry is one-eighth African) and Quinteroon (a person who is one-sixteenth African; counted as White in some Countries) are also in use although less nowadays.
             
            These terms originate from the Colonial days especially in Spanish Colonies where your Racial make-up could affect your status in life and your inheritance, the laws were slightly more lax in the British Colonies.
             
            A lot of terms which are now deemed derogatory are still in common usage in the Caribbean where they aren't considered offensive or are considered less offensive as in other Regions.
             
            Refering to the Spanish terms, there are numerous terms such as Mestizo, Cafuzo, Sambo and various other terms of other Linguistic origins which describe the different mixes of African/European, African/Amerindian, African/East Indian, African/Chinese, Amerindian/European and East Indian/European and so on.
             
            I understood what you meant when you used the term Mulatto as meaning someone of mixed African and European heritage who is of a light-skinned complexion.
             
            Regards
             
            Jon
             

            kizzyann sam <kaas79@...> wrote:
            I'm sorry Neville i should not have placed the word race at the end of
            Mulatto, but the word Mulatto sometimes completely describes what a person
            would look like. My great grandfather as i was told had very pale complexion
            and it was difficult for anyone to know he had a drop of black blood in him
            unless that information was given to them . So by me saying Mulatto, members
            of the group i hope have a better understanding of the person i am looking
            for, if they were asking another individual instead of a paper trail.

            >From: Neville Quelch <nquelch@...>
            >Reply-To: guyanese_genealogy@yahoogroups.com
            >To: guyanese_genealogy@yahoogroups.com
            >Subject: Re: [guyanese_genealogy] searching
            >Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 16:08:31 -0400 (EDT)
            >
            >Hello All:
            >
            >I have been reading all of the correspondence with great interest.  I am
            >not searching for my family but enjoying the way you all have put energy
            >and time in helping each other.  I have never before seen Guyanese working
            >together in a common cause since independence.  Obviously it takes
            >politicians to screw-up the works.  Please do not let any politicians in.
            >
            >I have one comment to make to Kizzyann.  Mulatto is not a race.  The
            >Americans used a one percent rule that stated if a person had 1% Black
            >blood then the person is Black.  By using that rule, the various shades of
            >Black peoples have a common history.  If that history is taken away, then
            >the people termed mulatto would be without a history or place in the world.
            >  I certainly don't mind if some Blacks were called cocoa brown, peanut
            >brown,  etc.  At least they would be still be included as Blacks.
            >
            >With respect,
            >
            >Neville Quelch
            >
            >"Jon - Budmart.co.uk" <budmartuk@...> wrote:
            >Hello Kizzyann
            >
            >I will have a look and see what i can find out and get back to you in a few
            >days with any findings.
            >
            >Speak to you soon.
            >
            >Regards
            >
            >Jon
            >
            >kizzyasam <kaas79@...> wrote:
            >My name is Kizzyann sam I am searching for my mother's (Florence
            >Griffith) relatives.My mother was born in Bush Lot, Essequibo. All my
            >father's genealogy records are accounted for. All i have to track my
            >mother's side is very vage and almost non-exsistant, with names given
            >to her from my grandmother (Margaret Griffith) who was afraid my mother
            >would not be accepted into the family because of her skin color. My
            >grandmother's father came to Guyana,from Barbados and settled in the
            >pomeroon around early 1920'sor much earlier. His name was Griffith and
            >of the malatto race. My grandmother's mother family came from India
            >with the name...Cadeir... which the changed later to ....cadells... my
            >spelling of these names may be a bit off. I would really like to
            >reconect with this half of my family. If anyone has information i would
            >really appreciate it.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >Visit Budmart.co.uk for all your Collecting needs !
            >
            >
            >__________________________________________________
            >Do You Yahoo!?
            >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
            >http://mail.yahoo.com
            >
            >---------------------------------
            >Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >    To visit your group on the web, go to:
            >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/guyanese_genealogy/
            >
            >    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            >guyanese_genealogy-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            >    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >---------------------------------
            >Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals

            _________________________________________________________________
            Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!
            http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/



            Visit Budmart.co.uk for all your Collecting needs !

            __________________________________________________
            Do You Yahoo!?
            Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
            http://mail.yahoo.com

            __________________________________________________
            Do You Yahoo!?
            Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
            http://mail.yahoo.com

          • Jon - Budmart.co.uk
            Hello Neville Thanks for your comments. Most Guyanese can trace their History back to the time of Slavery or Indenture. With the exception of the Amerindians
            Message 5 of 22 , Jun 4, 2005
            • 0 Attachment
              Hello Neville
               
              Thanks for your comments.
               
              Most Guyanese can trace their History back to the time of Slavery or Indenture.
               
              With the exception of the Amerindians who are the Native people of Guyana, all our Ancestors arrived in Guyana in one way or another due to the Sugar Industry.
               
              Sugar and Cotton were the two main exports that kept the British Empire running and Britain very wealthy.
               
              Britain is still a wealthy Nation today because of it's previous exploitation of "cheap labour" over the last 300 years or so.
               
              Although it may acknowledge it built it's wealth on the backs of our Ancestors, we are very unlikely to ever see any remorse or receive any apologies in anyway.
               
              Some have suggested the paying of reparations but this would bankrupt Britain as it was the main abuser of the Slavery/Indenture systems.
               
              Anyway it is all part of our History and the best thing to do is to build a decent future rather than living in the past.
               
              Regards
               
              Jon

              Neville Quelch <nquelch@...> wrote:
              Hi Jon:
               
              Thanks for the lesson.  It just goes to show what can be derived from the use of cheap labour in the production of economic goods.
               
              Enjoying this,
               
              Neville

              "Jon - Budmart.co.uk" <budmartuk@...> wrote:
              Hello Neville and Kizzyann
               
              There are numerous ways of looking at the point.
               
              Overall any one that isn't White is Black, then you have the different categories of Black - African, Indian, Mixed Heritage etc etc.
               
              There are a lot of people who have always considered themselves as "White" but have Black blood in them and they aren't aware of it until it has passed down the generations to their offspring.
               
              The term Mulatto is generally used in the Caribbean to describe someone who is either of mixed parentage (European/African) or of Mulatto parentage.
               
              They usually tend to be light skinned and have a mixture of European and African features.
               
              The terms Quadroon (a person having one-quarter African ancestry), Octoroon (a person whose ancestry is one-eighth African) and Quinteroon (a person who is one-sixteenth African; counted as White in some Countries) are also in use although less nowadays.
               
              These terms originate from the Colonial days especially in Spanish Colonies where your Racial make-up could affect your status in life and your inheritance, the laws were slightly more lax in the British Colonies.
               
              A lot of terms which are now deemed derogatory are still in common usage in the Caribbean where they aren't considered offensive or are considered less offensive as in other Regions.
               
              Refering to the Spanish terms, there are numerous terms such as Mestizo, Cafuzo, Sambo and various other terms of other Linguistic origins which describe the different mixes of African/European, African/Amerindian, African/East Indian, African/Chinese, Amerindian/European and East Indian/European and so on.
               
              I understood what you meant when you used the term Mulatto as meaning someone of mixed African and European heritage who is of a light-skinned complexion.
               
              Regards
               
              Jon
               

              kizzyann sam <kaas79@...> wrote:
              I'm sorry Neville i should not have placed the word race at the end of
              Mulatto, but the word Mulatto sometimes completely describes what a person
              would look like. My great grandfather as i was told had very pale complexion
              and it was difficult for anyone to know he had a drop of black blood in him
              unless that information was given to them . So by me saying Mulatto, members
              of the group i hope have a better understanding of the person i am looking
              for, if they were asking another individual instead of a paper trail.

              >From: Neville Quelch <nquelch@...>
              >Reply-To: guyanese_genealogy@yahoogroups.com
              >To: guyanese_genealogy@yahoogroups.com
              >Subject: Re: [guyanese_genealogy] searching
              >Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 16:08:31 -0400 (EDT)
              >
              >Hello All:
              >
              >I have been reading all of the correspondence with great interest.  I am
              >not searching for my family but enjoying the way you all have put energy
              >and time in helping each other.  I have never before seen Guyanese working
              >together in a common cause since independence.  Obviously it takes
              >politicians to screw-up the works.  Please do not let any politicians in.
              >
              >I have one comment to make to Kizzyann.  Mulatto is not a race.  The
              >Americans used a one percent rule that stated if a person had 1% Black
              >blood then the person is Black.  By using that rule, the various shades of
              >Black peoples have a common history.  If that history is taken away, then
              >the people termed mulatto would be without a history or place in the world.
              >  I certainly don't mind if some Blacks were called cocoa brown, peanut
              >brown,  etc.  At least they would be still be included as Blacks.
              >
              >With respect,
              >
              >Neville Quelch
              >
              >"Jon - Budmart.co.uk" <budmartuk@...> wrote:
              >Hello Kizzyann
              >
              >I will have a look and see what i can find out and get back to you in a few
              >days with any findings.
              >
              >Speak to you soon.
              >
              >Regards
              >
              >Jon
              >
              >kizzyasam <kaas79@...> wrote:
              >My name is Kizzyann sam I am searching for my mother's (Florence
              >Griffith) relatives.My mother was born in Bush Lot, Essequibo. All my
              >father's genealogy records are accounted for. All i have to track my
              >mother's side is very vage and almost non-exsistant, with names given
              >to her from my grandmother (Margaret Griffith) who was afraid my mother
              >would not be accepted into the family because of her skin color. My
              >grandmother's father came to Guyana,from Barbados and settled in the
              >pomeroon around early 1920'sor much earlier. His name was Griffith and
              >of the malatto race. My grandmother's mother family came from India
              >with the name...Cadeir... which the changed later to ....cadells... my
              >spelling of these names may be a bit off. I would really like to
              >reconect with this half of my family. If anyone has information i would
              >really appreciate it.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >Visit Budmart.co.uk for all your Collecting needs !
              >
              >
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              >
              >    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              >guyanese_genealogy-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              >    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
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            • Jon - Budmart.co.uk
              Hello Alison I think we have spoken before at this Group or at another Gen. Group. You have brought up something which i had noticed but did not mention as i
              Message 6 of 22 , Jun 4, 2005
              • 0 Attachment
                Hello Alison
                 
                I think we have spoken before at this Group or at another Gen. Group.
                 
                You have brought up something which i had noticed but did not mention as i was waiting for any more information before i concluded my findings.
                 
                However, seen as you have mentioned it, i will add a bit of detail.
                 
                You mentioned that Cadeir may also be spelt as Kadir, this is true and is common with a lot of Indian and other names.
                 
                The Clerks who recorded the names were often Europeans who weren't used to Indian names and so recorded them down as they sounded, from this we get a number of corruptions which are in use today.
                 
                My Surname for example has been spelt as Budhram, Budram, Boodhram, Boodram, Bhuduram, Bhoodooram and maybe countless other ways but in India from where it originated it is known as Buddha Ram.
                 
                So Cadeir is more likely to be spelt as Kadir or Kadeer which are more similiar to the original source.
                 
                This name is Muslim in origin, the Cadeirs most likely originated from the United Providences or Bihar Region of India or may have possibly came from the Punjab(includes part of modern day Pakistan).
                 
                Other Muslims came from Afghanistan and from Bengal which includes modern day Bangladesh but they tended to have other Muslim names which are Regional.
                 
                A lot of Indians also changed their names when they converted to Christianity or Anglicised their names to get by in a period of History where a name could make all the difference in where one got in life !
                 
                Regarding your own Family History, Sue-A-Ling is another form of corrupted Surnames that are common in Guyana.
                 
                This is Chinese in origin but can only be found in Guyana and nowhere in China where it will have a different spelling altogether.
                 
                Other names similiar to this include Ching-A-Sue and Quan-A-Sue.
                 
                Practically all the Chinese converted to Christianity a soon as they arrived and a few adopted Christian Surnames.
                 
                Another example is the Muslim name Ally which is only found in the Caribbean, this is the same name as Ali which is the more common spelling found just about everywhere else.
                 
                Regards
                 
                Jon

                alison roberts <alisonroberts52013@...> wrote:
                Dear Kizzyann,
                 
                Your family may have been named Kadir and there are some of those listed in the Guyana Telephone Directory.
                 
                Also, an amazing thing happenned in the post independence period, a number of people started chnging their names back so you may find some with the name you seek. Good luck.
                 
                To enter this conversation I am Beatrice Alison Roberts, married Austin. I am seeking information on my mother and father's genealogy.
                 
                My father's mother was from St. Lucia, her family are the Cenacs, Gustav, Nicholas, Xavier and Alexander. On his father's side, was Sue-a-Ling or Sue Ling and they lived in Linden.
                 
                My mother was Agatha Enid Quelch and my father Milton Roberts
                 
                I am also trying to complete my family tree.

                kizzyann sam <kaas79@...> wrote:
                I'm sorry Neville i should not have placed the word race at the end of
                Mulatto, but the word Mulatto sometimes completely describes what a person
                would look like. My great grandfather as i was told had very pale complexion
                and it was difficult for anyone to know he had a drop of black blood in him
                unless that information was given to them . So by me saying Mulatto, members
                of the group i hope have a better understanding of the person i am looking
                for, if they were asking another individual instead of a paper trail.

                >From: Neville Quelch <nquelch@...>
                >Reply-To: guyanese_genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                >To: guyanese_genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                >Subject: Re: [guyanese_genealogy] searching
                >Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 16:08:31 -0400 (EDT)
                >
                >Hello All:
                >
                >I have been reading all of the correspondence with great interest.  I am
                >not searching for my family but enjoying the way you all have put energy
                >and time in helping each other.  I have never before seen Guyanese working
                >together in a common cause since independence.  Obviously it takes
                >politicians to screw-up the works.  Please do not let any politicians in.
                >
                >I have one comment to make to Kizzyann.  Mulatto is not a race.  The
                >Americans used a one percent rule that stated if a person had 1% Black
                >blood then the person is Black.  By using that rule, the various shades of
                >Black peoples have a common history.  If that history is taken away, then
                >the people termed mulatto would be without a history or place in the world.
                >  I certainly don't mind if some Blacks were called cocoa brown, peanut
                >brown,  etc.  At least they would be still be included as Blacks.
                >
                >With respect,
                >
                >Neville Quelch
                >
                >"Jon - Budmart.co.uk" <budmartuk@...> wrote:
                >Hello Kizzyann
                >
                >I will have a look and see what i can find out and get back to you in a few
                >days with any findings.
                >
                >Speak to you soon.
                >
                >Regards
                >
                >Jon
                >
                >kizzyasam <kaas79@...> wrote:
                >My name is Kizzyann sam I am searching for my mother's (Florence
                >Griffith) relatives.My mother was born in Bush Lot, Essequibo. All my
                >father's genealogy records are accounted for. All i have to track my
                >mother's side is very vage and almost non-exsistant, with names given
                >to her from my grandmother (Margaret Griffith) who was afraid my mother
                >would not be accepted into the family because of her skin color. My
                >grandmother's father came to Guyana,from Barbados and settled in the
                >pomeroon around early 1920'sor much earlier. His name was Griffith and
                >of the malatto race. My grandmother's mother family came from India
                >with the name...Cadeir... which the changed later to ....cadells... my
                >spelling of these names may be a bit off. I would really like to
                >reconect with this half of my family. If anyone has information i would
                >really appreciate it.
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >Visit Budmart.co.uk for all your Collecting needs !
                >
                >
                >__________________________________________________
                >Do You Yahoo!?
                >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                >http://mail.yahoo.com
                >
                >---------------------------------
                >Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >    To visit your group on the web, go to:
                >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/guyanese_genealogy/
                >
                >    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                >guyanese_genealogy-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                >    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
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                Beatrice Alison Roberts love always

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              • Neville Quelch
                Hi Jon: I no longer call myself a Guyanese because I left in 1963 and worked all over Canada. I was never able to keep up to date on Guyanese affairs because
                Message 7 of 22 , Jun 4, 2005
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hi Jon:
                   
                  I no longer call myself a Guyanese because I left in 1963 and worked all over Canada.  I was never able to keep up to date on Guyanese affairs  because of the obvious communication problems.  Today, I still keep out of Guyanese affairs and depend on people like you and this genealogy service for bits and pieces of information.  Any comments, as such, must be neutral  However, I saw real progress in 1972 when the company I worked for was contracted for the electrification program of the day.  I spent 5 months in Guyana watching new subdivisions, roads  and infrastructure projects in progress.  The electrification project would have permitted new industries to start and grow in the rural areas and help avoid the congestion problem that is plaguing most of the capital cities of the developing countries and especially South America.
                   
                  Before leaving Canada to work on the project, I was called into an executive's office and told that I was going back as a Canadian and must in no way get involved in Guyanese affairs.  During my 4th month, I was approached by the main opposition party first and by the governing party second for contributions.  I informed both parties of my directives and that I could not contribute any party.  It did not take very long after for me to be summoned and told that I was needed in Canada for another project.
                   
                  I will never know if it was arranged or a coincidence but I was needed in Canada.  I really wanted to contribute to Guyana's development in any small way that I could.  Recently, I looked at the yearly increase in GDP from 1960 to 2003.  I was surprised to learn that much development had not taken place.  If a miracle could take place where Guyana was reimbursed by the UK the money would disappear like that of the gold money of the famous composite "George Pitatoe(?)."
                   
                  Regards
                   
                  Neville

                  "Jon - Budmart.co.uk" <budmartuk@...> wrote:
                  Hello Neville
                   
                  Thanks for your comments.
                   
                  Most Guyanese can trace their History back to the time of Slavery or Indenture.
                   
                  With the exception of the Amerindians who are the Native people of Guyana, all our Ancestors arrived in Guyana in one way or another due to the Sugar Industry.
                   
                  Sugar and Cotton were the two main exports that kept the British Empire running and Britain very wealthy.
                   
                  Britain is still a wealthy Nation today because of it's previous exploitation of "cheap labour" over the last 300 years or so.
                   
                  Although it may acknowledge it built it's wealth on the backs of our Ancestors, we are very unlikely to ever see any remorse or receive any apologies in anyway.
                   
                  Some have suggested the paying of reparations but this would bankrupt Britain as it was the main abuser of the Slavery/Indenture systems.
                   
                  Anyway it is all part of our History and the best thing to do is to build a decent future rather than living in the past.
                   
                  Regards
                   
                  Jon

                  Neville Quelch <nquelch@...> wrote:
                  Hi Jon:
                   
                  Thanks for the lesson.  It just goes to show what can be derived from the use of cheap labour in the production of economic goods.
                   
                  Enjoying this,
                   
                  Neville

                  "Jon - Budmart.co.uk" <budmartuk@...> wrote:
                  Hello Neville and Kizzyann
                   
                  There are numerous ways of looking at the point.
                   
                  Overall any one that isn't White is Black, then you have the different categories of Black - African, Indian, Mixed Heritage etc etc.
                   
                  There are a lot of people who have always considered themselves as "White" but have Black blood in them and they aren't aware of it until it has passed down the generations to their offspring.
                   
                  The term Mulatto is generally used in the Caribbean to describe someone who is either of mixed parentage (European/African) or of Mulatto parentage.
                   
                  They usually tend to be light skinned and have a mixture of European and African features.
                   
                  The terms Quadroon (a person having one-quarter African ancestry), Octoroon (a person whose ancestry is one-eighth African) and Quinteroon (a person who is one-sixteenth African; counted as White in some Countries) are also in use although less nowadays.
                   
                  These terms originate from the Colonial days especially in Spanish Colonies where your Racial make-up could affect your status in life and your inheritance, the laws were slightly more lax in the British Colonies.
                   
                  A lot of terms which are now deemed derogatory are still in common usage in the Caribbean where they aren't considered offensive or are considered less offensive as in other Regions.
                   
                  Refering to the Spanish terms, there are numerous terms such as Mestizo, Cafuzo, Sambo and various other terms of other Linguistic origins which describe the different mixes of African/European, African/Amerindian, African/East Indian, African/Chinese, Amerindian/European and East Indian/European and so on.
                   
                  I understood what you meant when you used the term Mulatto as meaning someone of mixed African and European heritage who is of a light-skinned complexion.
                   
                  Regards
                   
                  Jon
                   

                  kizzyann sam <kaas79@...> wrote:
                  I'm sorry Neville i should not have placed the word race at the end of
                  Mulatto, but the word Mulatto sometimes completely describes what a person
                  would look like. My great grandfather as i was told had very pale complexion
                  and it was difficult for anyone to know he had a drop of black blood in him
                  unless that information was given to them . So by me saying Mulatto, members
                  of the group i hope have a better understanding of the person i am looking
                  for, if they were asking another individual instead of a paper trail.

                  >From: Neville Quelch <nquelch@...>
                  >Reply-To: guyanese_genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                  >To: guyanese_genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                  >Subject: Re: [guyanese_genealogy] searching
                  >Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 16:08:31 -0400 (EDT)
                  >
                  >Hello All:
                  >
                  >I have been reading all of the correspondence with great interest.  I am
                  >not searching for my family but enjoying the way you all have put energy
                  >and time in helping each other.  I have never before seen Guyanese working
                  >together in a common cause since independence.  Obviously it takes
                  >politicians to screw-up the works.  Please do not let any politicians in.
                  >
                  >I have one comment to make to Kizzyann.  Mulatto is not a race.  The
                  >Americans used a one percent rule that stated if a person had 1% Black
                  >blood then the person is Black.  By using that rule, the various shades of
                  >Black peoples have a common history.  If that history is taken away, then
                  >the people termed mulatto would be without a history or place in the world.
                  >  I certainly don't mind if some Blacks were called cocoa brown, peanut
                  >brown,  etc.  At least they would be still be included as Blacks.
                  >
                  >With respect,
                  >
                  >Neville Quelch
                  >
                  >"Jon - Budmart.co.uk" <budmartuk@...> wrote:
                  >Hello Kizzyann
                  >
                  >I will have a look and see what i can find out and get back to you in a few
                  >days with any findings.
                  >
                  >Speak to you soon.
                  >
                  >Regards
                  >
                  >Jon
                  >
                  >kizzyasam <kaas79@...> wrote:
                  >My name is Kizzyann sam I am searching for my mother's (Florence
                  >Griffith) relatives.My mother was born in Bush Lot, Essequibo. All my
                  >father's genealogy records are accounted for. All i have to track my
                  >mother's side is very vage and almost non-exsistant, with names given
                  >to her from my grandmother (Margaret Griffith) who was afraid my mother
                  >would not be accepted into the family because of her skin color. My
                  >grandmother's father came to Guyana,from Barbados and settled in the
                  >pomeroon around early 1920'sor much earlier. His name was Griffith and
                  >of the malatto race. My grandmother's mother family came from India
                  >with the name...Cadeir... which the changed later to ....cadells... my
                  >spelling of these names may be a bit off. I would really like to
                  >reconect with this half of my family. If anyone has information i would
                  >really appreciate it.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >Visit Budmart.co.uk for all your Collecting needs !
                  >
                  >
                  >__________________________________________________
                  >Do You Yahoo!?
                  >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                  >http://mail.yahoo.com
                  >
                  >---------------------------------
                  >Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >    To visit your group on the web, go to:
                  >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/guyanese_genealogy/
                  >
                  >    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  >guyanese_genealogy-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  >    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >---------------------------------
                  >Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals

                  _________________________________________________________________
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                • Jon - Budmart.co.uk
                  Hello Neville I regard myself as British as i am born and raised in England but i don t regard myself as English as you pretty much have to be a club member
                  Message 8 of 22 , Jun 6, 2005
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hello Neville
                     
                    I regard myself as British as i am born and raised in England but i don't regard myself as English as you pretty much have to be a "club member" to get into their "club".
                     
                    I prefer to call myself an Irish-Guyanese or ethnically a Eurasian/Anglo-Indian as my Mother is from Belfast and my Father from Port Mourant.
                     
                    I have a deep interest in both sides of my Family History and in both sides of my mixed Heritage.
                     
                    I have been to Guyana a number of times and been to various places in Berbice and Demerara.
                     
                    I may not have been born or bred there but i feel a strong link culturely.
                     
                    Regarding the comunication problems, i remember before Jagan coming to power having to travel miles to make a phone call home, Telecommunications are a lot better now plus now Guyana is online we can get news as it happens.
                     
                    For a little while there had been a lot of improvements, i had seen it for myself on many of my trips to Guyana but it has all seemed to have came to a halt and the Country unfortunately now seems to be regressing rather than progressing.
                     
                    Security is a major problem at the moment with the high rise in Crime and internal Terrorism.
                     
                    The Government is however investing a lot of money into Tourism and is hoping to highlight Guyana during the Cricket World Cup and put in onto the Caribbean Tourist map.
                     
                    Guyana is rich in resources, it has Gold, Diamonds, Oil and Bauxite amongst other main exports but seems to be poor in how it manages its affairs.
                     
                    I am also sure if Guyana was ever to receive a miraculous rebate or reparation from Britain it too would disappear just like George's Gold !!
                     
                    Nobody in the Towns or Villages would see any of it, thats for certain.
                     
                    Regards
                     
                    Jon

                    Neville Quelch <nquelch@...> wrote:
                    Hi Jon:
                     
                    I no longer call myself a Guyanese because I left in 1963 and worked all over Canada.  I was never able to keep up to date on Guyanese affairs  because of the obvious communication problems.  Today, I still keep out of Guyanese affairs and depend on people like you and this genealogy service for bits and pieces of information.  Any comments, as such, must be neutral  However, I saw real progress in 1972 when the company I worked for was contracted for the electrification program of the day.  I spent 5 months in Guyana watching new subdivisions, roads  and infrastructure projects in progress.  The electrification project would have permitted new industries to start and grow in the rural areas and help avoid the congestion problem that is plaguing most of the capital cities of the developing countries and especially South America.
                     
                    Before leaving Canada to work on the project, I was called into an executive's office and told that I was going back as a Canadian and must in no way get involved in Guyanese affairs.  During my 4th month, I was approached by the main opposition party first and by the governing party second for contributions.  I informed both parties of my directives and that I could not contribute any party.  It did not take very long after for me to be summoned and told that I was needed in Canada for another project.
                     
                    I will never know if it was arranged or a coincidence but I was needed in Canada.  I really wanted to contribute to Guyana's development in any small way that I could.  Recently, I looked at the yearly increase in GDP from 1960 to 2003.  I was surprised to learn that much development had not taken place.  If a miracle could take place where Guyana was reimbursed by the UK the money would disappear like that of the gold money of the famous composite "George Pitatoe(?)."
                     
                    Regards
                     
                    Neville

                    "Jon - Budmart.co.uk" <budmartuk@...> wrote:
                    Hello Neville
                     
                    Thanks for your comments.
                     
                    Most Guyanese can trace their History back to the time of Slavery or Indenture.
                     
                    With the exception of the Amerindians who are the Native people of Guyana, all our Ancestors arrived in Guyana in one way or another due to the Sugar Industry.
                     
                    Sugar and Cotton were the two main exports that kept the British Empire running and Britain very wealthy.
                     
                    Britain is still a wealthy Nation today because of it's previous exploitation of "cheap labour" over the last 300 years or so.
                     
                    Although it may acknowledge it built it's wealth on the backs of our Ancestors, we are very unlikely to ever see any remorse or receive any apologies in anyway.
                     
                    Some have suggested the paying of reparations but this would bankrupt Britain as it was the main abuser of the Slavery/Indenture systems.
                     
                    Anyway it is all part of our History and the best thing to do is to build a decent future rather than living in the past.
                     
                    Regards
                     
                    Jon

                    Neville Quelch <nquelch@...> wrote:
                    Hi Jon:
                     
                    Thanks for the lesson.  It just goes to show what can be derived from the use of cheap labour in the production of economic goods.
                     
                    Enjoying this,
                     
                    Neville

                    "Jon - Budmart.co.uk" <budmartuk@...> wrote:
                    Hello Neville and Kizzyann
                     
                    There are numerous ways of looking at the point.
                     
                    Overall any one that isn't White is Black, then you have the different categories of Black - African, Indian, Mixed Heritage etc etc.
                     
                    There are a lot of people who have always considered themselves as "White" but have Black blood in them and they aren't aware of it until it has passed down the generations to their offspring.
                     
                    The term Mulatto is generally used in the Caribbean to describe someone who is either of mixed parentage (European/African) or of Mulatto parentage.
                     
                    They usually tend to be light skinned and have a mixture of European and African features.
                     
                    The terms Quadroon (a person having one-quarter African ancestry), Octoroon (a person whose ancestry is one-eighth African) and Quinteroon (a person who is one-sixteenth African; counted as White in some Countries) are also in use although less nowadays.
                     
                    These terms originate from the Colonial days especially in Spanish Colonies where your Racial make-up could affect your status in life and your inheritance, the laws were slightly more lax in the British Colonies.
                     
                    A lot of terms which are now deemed derogatory are still in common usage in the Caribbean where they aren't considered offensive or are considered less offensive as in other Regions.
                     
                    Refering to the Spanish terms, there are numerous terms such as Mestizo, Cafuzo, Sambo and various other terms of other Linguistic origins which describe the different mixes of African/European, African/Amerindian, African/East Indian, African/Chinese, Amerindian/European and East Indian/European and so on.
                     
                    I understood what you meant when you used the term Mulatto as meaning someone of mixed African and European heritage who is of a light-skinned complexion.
                     
                    Regards
                     
                    Jon
                     

                    kizzyann sam <kaas79@...> wrote:
                    I'm sorry Neville i should not have placed the word race at the end of
                    Mulatto, but the word Mulatto sometimes completely describes what a person
                    would look like. My great grandfather as i was told had very pale complexion
                    and it was difficult for anyone to know he had a drop of black blood in him
                    unless that information was given to them . So by me saying Mulatto, members
                    of the group i hope have a better understanding of the person i am looking
                    for, if they were asking another individual instead of a paper trail.

                    >From: Neville Quelch <nquelch@...>
                    >Reply-To: guyanese_genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                    >To: guyanese_genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                    >Subject: Re: [guyanese_genealogy] searching
                    >Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 16:08:31 -0400 (EDT)
                    >
                    >Hello All:
                    >
                    >I have been reading all of the correspondence with great interest.  I am
                    >not searching for my family but enjoying the way you all have put energy
                    >and time in helping each other.  I have never before seen Guyanese working
                    >together in a common cause since independence.  Obviously it takes
                    >politicians to screw-up the works.  Please do not let any politicians in.
                    >
                    >I have one comment to make to Kizzyann.  Mulatto is not a race.  The
                    >Americans used a one percent rule that stated if a person had 1% Black
                    >blood then the person is Black.  By using that rule, the various shades of
                    >Black peoples have a common history.  If that history is taken away, then
                    >the people termed mulatto would be without a history or place in the world.
                    >  I certainly don't mind if some Blacks were called cocoa brown, peanut
                    >brown,  etc.  At least they would be still be included as Blacks.
                    >
                    >With respect,
                    >
                    >Neville Quelch
                    >
                    >"Jon - Budmart.co.uk" <budmartuk@...> wrote:
                    >Hello Kizzyann
                    >
                    >I will have a look and see what i can find out and get back to you in a few
                    >days with any findings.
                    >
                    >Speak to you soon.
                    >
                    >Regards
                    >
                    >Jon
                    >
                    >kizzyasam <kaas79@...> wrote:
                    >My name is Kizzyann sam I am searching for my mother's (Florence
                    >Griffith) relatives.My mother was born in Bush Lot, Essequibo. All my
                    >father's genealogy records are accounted for. All i have to track my
                    >mother's side is very vage and almost non-exsistant, with names given
                    >to her from my grandmother (Margaret Griffith) who was afraid my mother
                    >would not be accepted into the family because of her skin color. My
                    >grandmother's father came to Guyana,from Barbados and settled in the
                    >pomeroon around early 1920'sor much earlier. His name was Griffith and
                    >of the malatto race. My grandmother's mother family came from India
                    >with the name...Cadeir... which the changed later to ....cadells... my
                    >spelling of these names may be a bit off. I would really like to
                    >reconect with this half of my family. If anyone has information i would
                    >really appreciate it.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
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                  • Neville Quelch
                    Hi Jon: I understand and appreciate you Guyanese cultural link. My family in UK are exactly the same. Some were born in the UK and others left Guyana at a
                    Message 9 of 22 , Jun 6, 2005
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Hi Jon:
                       
                      I understand and appreciate you Guyanese cultural link.  My family in UK are exactly the same.  Some were born in the UK and others left Guyana at a very young age.  When we get together, it is as if we knew each other  and had close relationships.  I guess it is a family thing with Guyanese.
                       
                      My sister in the UK traced my maternal roots to Nigeria via Barbados.  My paternal roots started in Scotland however, according to another genealogy organization , the name Quelch was originally Welsh then Welsh and finally Quelch.  It would appear that somewhere along the line, welsh was used because the originator was from Wales.  Just maybe the same name transition occur ed with other enquiring members of the group.
                       
                      In trying to understand Guyana's economic stagnation I was made to understand that the senior civil servants with ability to translate government policy into action left Guyana for the West Indies and the people who took their places know as much as me - nothing,
                       
                      In the UK you have a King or Queen, Lords, etc.  While such a system may have worked in the past, it served as a model that was not wanted in Canada and the USA.  That system created a class society and provided me with the understanding of being "Put in one's Place."  The Canadian society, like that in the US, does not have a class system and as such, anyone can be whatever anyone wants - no limitations.  Maybe that is why the British started leaving in the Sixties.  As a matter of fact, any English and their children who have lived in Canada prior to he Nineteen-Sixties and still have not applied for immigrant status cannot become Canadians and cannot vote in any election.
                       
                      Like every other country, we have our problems - great and small but our politicians understand that the economy of the country comes first.  When I went to Guyana in 1972, I thought that it was similarly understood.  My next visit was in 1980 and although the economic growth was slower, developing countries around the world were reeling from balance of payments due to having borrowed (to feed economic development) from commercial banks at regular commercial rates.  I went back in 1992 and could not believe that I was in the Guyana that showed such promise in 1972.
                       
                      Since then Guyana has changed governments and now has a President that studied closed-economy economics and trying to use the theories in an open economy.  It cannot work and will not work.  As far as the riches of Guyana goes, Guyana needs foreign investment in terms of money and technology to develop its natural resources.  Additionally, a market must exist for the products and that is controlled by US and on a lessor scale, the EU and Japan.
                       
                      Developmental economists suggested developing countries trade among themselves and be inventive to satisfy their needs rather than try to use equipment from the developed countries.  While this was an exceedingly good idea, the US (in my opinion) in ensuring the developing countries remain dependant and has formed trading blocks with most of them.  At the same time, the US, EU and Japan control what is produced, by whom and what is the selling price.
                       
                      While Guyana can try to push tourism as an industry, North Americans look for sandy beaches in tropical countries during the long winters.  When the tides from the Amazon river turn back to the continent, Guyana is the recipient of muddy water.  Any clear water beaches would have to be found in the interior.  It is only with much TV advertisement Guyana can showcase safe photographic safaris as an effective alternative.
                       
                      Caribbean tourism should not have been necessary, Guyana hosted the Non-Aligned League of Nations and Carifesta in 1972.  Those were events to build on.
                       
                      Regards
                       
                      Neville

                      "Jon - Budmart.co.uk" <budmartuk@...> wrote:
                      Hello Neville
                       
                      I regard myself as British as i am born and raised in England but i don't regard myself as English as you pretty much have to be a "club member" to get into their "club".
                       
                      I prefer to call myself an Irish-Guyanese or ethnically a Eurasian/Anglo-Indian as my Mother is from Belfast and my Father from Port Mourant.
                       
                      I have a deep interest in both sides of my Family History and in both sides of my mixed Heritage.
                       
                      I have been to Guyana a number of times and been to various places in Berbice and Demerara.
                       
                      I may not have been born or bred there but i feel a strong link culturely.
                       
                      Regarding the comunication problems, i remember before Jagan coming to power having to travel miles to make a phone call home, Telecommunications are a lot better now plus now Guyana is online we can get news as it happens.
                       
                      For a little while there had been a lot of improvements, i had seen it for myself on many of my trips to Guyana but it has all seemed to have came to a halt and the Country unfortunately now seems to be regressing rather than progressing.
                       
                      Security is a major problem at the moment with the high rise in Crime and internal Terrorism.
                       
                      The Government is however investing a lot of money into Tourism and is hoping to highlight Guyana during the Cricket World Cup and put in onto the Caribbean Tourist map.
                       
                      Guyana is rich in resources, it has Gold, Diamonds, Oil and Bauxite amongst other main exports but seems to be poor in how it manages its affairs.
                       
                      I am also sure if Guyana was ever to receive a miraculous rebate or reparation from Britain it too would disappear just like George's Gold !!
                       
                      Nobody in the Towns or Villages would see any of it, thats for certain.
                       
                      Regards
                       
                      Jon

                      Neville Quelch <nquelch@...> wrote:
                      Hi Jon:
                       
                      I no longer call myself a Guyanese because I left in 1963 and worked all over Canada.  I was never able to keep up to date on Guyanese affairs  because of the obvious communication problems.  Today, I still keep out of Guyanese affairs and depend on people like you and this genealogy service for bits and pieces of information.  Any comments, as such, must be neutral  However, I saw real progress in 1972 when the company I worked for was contracted for the electrification program of the day.  I spent 5 months in Guyana watching new subdivisions, roads  and infrastructure projects in progress.  The electrification project would have permitted new industries to start and grow in the rural areas and help avoid the congestion problem that is plaguing most of the capital cities of the developing countries and especially South America.
                       
                      Before leaving Canada to work on the project, I was called into an executive's office and told that I was going back as a Canadian and must in no way get involved in Guyanese affairs.  During my 4th month, I was approached by the main opposition party first and by the governing party second for contributions.  I informed both parties of my directives and that I could not contribute any party.  It did not take very long after for me to be summoned and told that I was needed in Canada for another project.
                       
                      I will never know if it was arranged or a coincidence but I was needed in Canada.  I really wanted to contribute to Guyana's development in any small way that I could.  Recently, I looked at the yearly increase in GDP from 1960 to 2003.  I was surprised to learn that much development had not taken place.  If a miracle could take place where Guyana was reimbursed by the UK the money would disappear like that of the gold money of the famous composite "George Pitatoe(?)."
                       
                      Regards
                       
                      Neville

                      "Jon - Budmart.co.uk" <budmartuk@...> wrote:
                      Hello Neville
                       
                      Thanks for your comments.
                       
                      Most Guyanese can trace their History back to the time of Slavery or Indenture.
                       
                      With the exception of the Amerindians who are the Native people of Guyana, all our Ancestors arrived in Guyana in one way or another due to the Sugar Industry.
                       
                      Sugar and Cotton were the two main exports that kept the British Empire running and Britain very wealthy.
                       
                      Britain is still a wealthy Nation today because of it's previous exploitation of "cheap labour" over the last 300 years or so.
                       
                      Although it may acknowledge it built it's wealth on the backs of our Ancestors, we are very unlikely to ever see any remorse or receive any apologies in anyway.
                       
                      Some have suggested the paying of reparations but this would bankrupt Britain as it was the main abuser of the Slavery/Indenture systems.
                       
                      Anyway it is all part of our History and the best thing to do is to build a decent future rather than living in the past.
                       
                      Regards
                       
                      Jon

                      Neville Quelch <nquelch@...> wrote:
                      Hi Jon:
                       
                      Thanks for the lesson.  It just goes to show what can be derived from the use of cheap labour in the production of economic goods.
                       
                      Enjoying this,
                       
                      Neville

                      "Jon - Budmart.co.uk" <budmartuk@...> wrote:
                      Hello Neville and Kizzyann
                       
                      There are numerous ways of looking at the point.
                       
                      Overall any one that isn't White is Black, then you have the different categories of Black - African, Indian, Mixed Heritage etc etc.
                       
                      There are a lot of people who have always considered themselves as "White" but have Black blood in them and they aren't aware of it until it has passed down the generations to their offspring.
                       
                      The term Mulatto is generally used in the Caribbean to describe someone who is either of mixed parentage (European/African) or of Mulatto parentage.
                       
                      They usually tend to be light skinned and have a mixture of European and African features.
                       
                      The terms Quadroon (a person having one-quarter African ancestry), Octoroon (a person whose ancestry is one-eighth African) and Quinteroon (a person who is one-sixteenth African; counted as White in some Countries) are also in use although less nowadays.
                       
                      These terms originate from the Colonial days especially in Spanish Colonies where your Racial make-up could affect your status in life and your inheritance, the laws were slightly more lax in the British Colonies.
                       
                      A lot of terms which are now deemed derogatory are still in common usage in the Caribbean where they aren't considered offensive or are considered less offensive as in other Regions.
                       
                      Refering to the Spanish terms, there are numerous terms such as Mestizo, Cafuzo, Sambo and various other terms of other Linguistic origins which describe the different mixes of African/European, African/Amerindian, African/East Indian, African/Chinese, Amerindian/European and East Indian/European and so on.
                       
                      I understood what you meant when you used the term Mulatto as meaning someone of mixed African and European heritage who is of a light-skinned complexion.
                       
                      Regards
                       
                      Jon
                       

                      kizzyann sam <kaas79@...> wrote:
                      I'm sorry Neville i should not have placed the word race at the end of
                      Mulatto, but the word Mulatto sometimes completely describes what a person
                      would look like. My great grandfather as i was told had very pale complexion
                      and it was difficult for anyone to know he had a drop of black blood in him
                      unless that information was given to them . So by me saying Mulatto, members
                      of the group i hope have a better understanding of the person i am looking
                      for, if they were asking another individual instead of a paper trail.

                      >From: Neville Quelch <nquelch@...>
                      >Reply-To: guyanese_genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                      >To: guyanese_genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                      >Subject: Re: [guyanese_genealogy] searching
                      >Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 16:08:31 -0400 (EDT)
                      >
                      >Hello All:
                      >
                      >I have been reading all of the correspondence with great interest.  I am
                      >not searching for my family but enjoying the way you all have put energy
                      >and time in helping each other.  I have never before seen Guyanese working
                      >together in a common cause since independence.  Obviously it takes
                      >politicians to screw-up the works.  Please do not let any politicians in.
                      >
                      >I have one comment to make to Kizzyann.  Mulatto is not a race.  The
                      >Americans used a one percent rule that stated if a person had 1% Black
                      >blood then the person is Black.  By using that rule, the various shades of
                      >Black peoples have a common history.  If that history is taken away, then
                      >the people termed mulatto would be without a history or place in the world.
                      >  I certainly don't mind if some Blacks were called cocoa brown, peanut
                      >brown,  etc.  At least they would be still be included as Blacks.
                      >
                      >With respect,
                      >
                      >Neville Quelch
                      >
                      >"Jon - Budmart.co.uk" <budmartuk@...> wrote:
                      >Hello Kizzyann
                      >
                      >I will have a look and see what i can find out and get back to you in a few
                      >days with any findings.
                      >
                      >Speak to you soon.
                      >
                      >Regards
                      >
                      >Jon
                      >
                      >kizzyasam <kaas79@...> wrote:
                      >My name is Kizzyann sam I am searching for my mother's (Florence
                      >Griffith) relatives.My mother was born in Bush Lot, Essequibo. All my
                      >father's genealogy records are accounted for. All i have to track my
                      >mother's side is very vage and almost non-exsistant, with names given
                      >to her from my grandmother (Margaret Griffith) who was afraid my mother
                      >would not be accepted into the family because of her skin color. My
                      >grandmother's father came to Guyana,from Barbados and settled in the
                      >pomeroon around early 1920'sor much earlier. His name was Griffith and
                      >of the malatto race. My grandmother's mother family came from India
                      >with the name...Cadeir... which the changed later to ....cadells... my
                      >spelling of these names may be a bit off. I would really like to
                      >reconect with this half of my family. If anyone has information i would
                      >really appreciate it.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >Visit Budmart.co.uk for all your Collecting needs !
                      >
                      >
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                    • Jon - Budmart.co.uk
                      Hello Neville Guyanese are very Clannish just like the Irish and others like the Jews, Greeks and Italians for example. By what you have stated, i assume
                      Message 10 of 22 , Jun 8, 2005
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                        Hello Neville
                         
                        Guyanese are very "Clannish" just like the Irish and others like the Jews, Greeks and Italians for example.
                         
                        By what you have stated, i assume that you are a "Mulatto" or similiar (i do not mean any offence if you find the term offensive as i am using it in a Historical context to mean someone of mixed Heritage), Nigeria and other parts of West Africa are the main places of origin for Afro-Guyanese and there were a lot of Scots in Guyana, they mostly filled the positions of Overseer on the Plantations.
                         
                        I have also heard that Quelch can also be Squelch, Welsh, Walsh or Welch which may still be of Scots origin but meaning a person that came from Wales.

                        I think most Guyanese proberly wish it would become a Colony again then we would be in the same situation as French Guiana, much better off !

                        There is still very much unfortunately a Class system in the U.K. and a Racial system where some get further than others because of their background or Ethnicity.

                        The English and other British peoples - the Scots and Welsh pretty much consider themselves as Patriots and don't like each other let alone anyone else, so it is quite hard to get accepted as a Outsider.

                        The British legal system is mainly the model for most Countries Worldwide as the English and Scottish Parliaments can be traced right back to the 11th and 13th Centuries respectively.

                        The Queen is still the head of State and the English Parliament is divided into the Lords and Commons, it also has the power over the Scottish, Welsh and Northern Ireland Parliaments and can veto or supercede any laws that they introduce if it wishes.

                        Guyana has all the resources to make something of itself but has never managed to use it effectively or wisely.

                        The British helped themselves to as much as they could while they were in charge and many Private Companies from Overseas have managed to make a good profit from these resources but Guyana hasn't managed to obtain anything from their own rich sources.

                        It has been Guyana's Government policies over the decades since Independence that have lead to its regression and shameful title as being "the poorest Country in the western Hemisphere".

                        Burnham's Government delved with Socialism and self-reliance cutting off trade with America and Western Europe and switching to Communist Countries and Rogue Middle Eastern States.

                        Jagan's Government originally toyed with Communism thus leading to his imprisonment by the British and the 1953 Emergency but on re-instatement in 1992 had to alter their ideas and look to America and Europe again for trade and funding.

                        Guyana did pick up a bit financially in the late 1990's as many Guyanese returned from Overseas and invested in the Country and things were on the up but they have now stopped in their tracks due to the current Security problem in the Country with widespread Banditry and Terrorism and their inability to deal with it.

                        I know that Guyana's beaches aren't up to the standard of West Indian beaches and eco-tourism is Guyana's main hope but strangely they have produced a number of artificial beaches over the years at resorts in the interior.

                        They are currently looking at turning Jonestown (morbid i know) into a tourist site as they think it will bring loads of American Tourists to Guyana !!

                        They are making a big preparation for the Cricket World Cup with the building of a new National Stadium and updating the other Grounds plus the construction of new Hotels in Georgetown including a super-Hotel complex which comprises a shopping centre and Casino.

                        They however, seem to have forgotten about the internal Crime problems which they need to get on top of before any mass Tourism to Guyana.

                        They have so much potential but it is being ruined not by Foreigners but by fellow Guyanese.

                        Regards

                        Jon


                        Neville Quelch <nquelch@...> wrote:

                        Hi Jon:
                         
                        I understand and appreciate you Guyanese cultural link.  My family in UK are exactly the same.  Some were born in the UK and others left Guyana at a very young age.  When we get together, it is as if we knew each other  and had close relationships.  I guess it is a family thing with Guyanese.
                         
                        My sister in the UK traced my maternal roots to Nigeria via Barbados.  My paternal roots started in Scotland however, according to another genealogy organization , the name Quelch was originally Welsh then Welsh and finally Quelch.  It would appear that somewhere along the line, welsh was used because the originator was from Wales.  Just maybe the same name transition occur ed with other enquiring members of the group.
                         
                        In trying to understand Guyana's economic stagnation I was made to understand that the senior civil servants with ability to translate government policy into action left Guyana for the West Indies and the people who took their places know as much as me - nothing,
                         
                        In the UK you have a King or Queen, Lords, etc.  While such a system may have worked in the past, it served as a model that was not wanted in Canada and the USA.  That system created a class society and provided me with the understanding of being "Put in one's Place."  The Canadian society, like that in the US, does not have a class system and as such, anyone can be whatever anyone wants - no limitations.  Maybe that is why the British started leaving in the Sixties.  As a matter of fact, any English and their children who have lived in Canada prior to he Nineteen-Sixties and still have not applied for immigrant status cannot become Canadians and cannot vote in any election.
                         
                        Like every other country, we have our problems - great and small but our politicians understand that the economy of the country comes first.  When I went to Guyana in 1972, I thought that it was similarly understood.  My next visit was in 1980 and although the economic growth was slower, developing countries around the world were reeling from balance of payments due to having borrowed (to feed economic development) from commercial banks at regular commercial rates.  I went back in 1992 and could not believe that I was in the Guyana that showed such promise in 1972.
                         
                        Since then Guyana has changed governments and now has a President that studied closed-economy economics and trying to use the theories in an open economy.  It cannot work and will not work.  As far as the riches of Guyana goes, Guyana needs foreign investment in terms of money and technology to develop its natural resources.  Additionally, a market must exist for the products and that is controlled by US and on a lessor scale, the EU and Japan.
                         
                        Developmental economists suggested developing countries trade among themselves and be inventive to satisfy their needs rather than try to use equipment from the developed countries.  While this was an exceedingly good idea, the US (in my opinion) in ensuring the developing countries remain dependant and has formed trading blocks with most of them.  At the same time, the US, EU and Japan control what is produced, by whom and what is the selling price.
                         
                        While Guyana can try to push tourism as an industry, North Americans look for sandy beaches in tropical countries during the long winters.  When the tides from the Amazon river turn back to the continent, Guyana is the recipient of muddy water.  Any clear water beaches would have to be found in the interior.  It is only with much TV advertisement Guyana can showcase safe photographic safaris as an effective alternative.
                         
                        Caribbean tourism should not have been necessary, Guyana hosted the Non-Aligned League of Nations and Carifesta in 1972.  Those were events to build on.
                         
                        Regards
                         
                        Neville

                        "Jon - Budmart.co.uk" <budmartuk@...> wrote:
                        Hello Neville
                         
                        I regard myself as British as i am born and raised in England but i don't regard myself as English as you pretty much have to be a "club member" to get into their "club".
                         
                        I prefer to call myself an Irish-Guyanese or ethnically a Eurasian/Anglo-Indian as my Mother is from Belfast and my Father from Port Mourant.
                         
                        I have a deep interest in both sides of my Family History and in both sides of my mixed Heritage.
                         
                        I have been to Guyana a number of times and been to various places in Berbice and Demerara.
                         
                        I may not have been born or bred there but i feel a strong link culturely.
                         
                        Regarding the comunication problems, i remember before Jagan coming to power having to travel miles to make a phone call home, Telecommunications are a lot better now plus now Guyana is online we can get news as it happens.
                         
                        For a little while there had been a lot of improvements, i had seen it for myself on many of my trips to Guyana but it has all seemed to have came to a halt and the Country unfortunately now seems to be regressing rather than progressing.
                         
                        Security is a major problem at the moment with the high rise in Crime and internal Terrorism.
                         
                        The Government is however investing a lot of money into Tourism and is hoping to highlight Guyana during the Cricket World Cup and put in onto the Caribbean Tourist map.
                         
                        Guyana is rich in resources, it has Gold, Diamonds, Oil and Bauxite amongst other main exports but seems to be poor in how it manages its affairs.
                         
                        I am also sure if Guyana was ever to receive a miraculous rebate or reparation from Britain it too would disappear just like George's Gold !!
                         
                        Nobody in the Towns or Villages would see any of it, thats for certain.
                         
                        Regards
                         
                        Jon

                        Neville Quelch <nquelch@...> wrote:
                        Hi Jon:
                         
                        I no longer call myself a Guyanese because I left in 1963 and worked all over Canada.  I was never able to keep up to date on Guyanese affairs  because of the obvious communication problems.  Today, I still keep out of Guyanese affairs and depend on people like you and this genealogy service for bits and pieces of information.  Any comments, as such, must be neutral  However, I saw real progress in 1972 when the company I worked for was contracted for the electrification program of the day.  I spent 5 months in Guyana watching new subdivisions, roads  and infrastructure projects in progress.  The electrification project would have permitted new industries to start and grow in the rural areas and help avoid the congestion problem that is plaguing most of the capital cities of the developing countries and especially South America.
                         
                        Before leaving Canada to work on the project, I was called into an executive's office and told that I was going back as a Canadian and must in no way get involved in Guyanese affairs.  During my 4th month, I was approached by the main opposition party first and by the governing party second for contributions.  I informed both parties of my directives and that I could not contribute any party.  It did not take very long after for me to be summoned and told that I was needed in Canada for another project.
                         
                        I will never know if it was arranged or a coincidence but I was needed in Canada.  I really wanted to contribute to Guyana's development in any small way that I could.  Recently, I looked at the yearly increase in GDP from 1960 to 2003.  I was surprised to learn that much development had not taken place.  If a miracle could take place where Guyana was reimbursed by the UK the money would disappear like that of the gold money of the famous composite "George Pitatoe(?)."
                         
                        Regards
                         
                        Neville

                        "Jon - Budmart.co.uk" <budmartuk@...> wrote:
                        Hello Neville
                         
                        Thanks for your comments.
                         
                        Most Guyanese can trace their History back to the time of Slavery or Indenture.
                         
                        With the exception of the Amerindians who are the Native people of Guyana, all our Ancestors arrived in Guyana in one way or another due to the Sugar Industry.
                         
                        Sugar and Cotton were the two main exports that kept the British Empire running and Britain very wealthy.
                         
                        Britain is still a wealthy Nation today because of it's previous exploitation of "cheap labour" over the last 300 years or so.
                         
                        Although it may acknowledge it built it's wealth on the backs of our Ancestors, we are very unlikely to ever see any remorse or receive any apologies in anyway.
                         
                        Some have suggested the paying of reparations but this would bankrupt Britain as it was the main abuser of the Slavery/Indenture systems.
                         
                        Anyway it is all part of our History and the best thing to do is to build a decent future rather than living in the past.
                         
                        Regards
                         
                        Jon

                        Neville Quelch <nquelch@...> wrote:
                        Hi Jon:
                         
                        Thanks for the lesson.  It just goes to show what can be derived from the use of cheap labour in the production of economic goods.
                         
                        Enjoying this,
                         
                        Neville

                        "Jon - Budmart.co.uk" <budmartuk@...> wrote:
                        Hello Neville and Kizzyann
                         
                        There are numerous ways of looking at the point.
                         
                        Overall any one that isn't White is Black, then you have the different categories of Black - African, Indian, Mixed Heritage etc etc.
                         
                        There are a lot of people who have always considered themselves as "White" but have Black blood in them and they aren't aware of it until it has passed down the generations to their offspring.
                         
                        The term Mulatto is generally used in the Caribbean to describe someone who is either of mixed parentage (European/African) or of Mulatto parentage.
                         
                        They usually tend to be light skinned and have a mixture of European and African features.
                         
                        The terms Quadroon (a person having one-quarter African ancestry), Octoroon (a person whose ancestry is one-eighth African) and Quinteroon (a person who is one-sixteenth African; counted as White in some Countries) are also in use although less nowadays.
                         
                        These terms originate from the Colonial days especially in Spanish Colonies where your Racial make-up could affect your status in life and your inheritance, the laws were slightly more lax in the British Colonies.
                         
                        A lot of terms which are now deemed derogatory are still in common usage in the Caribbean where they aren't considered offensive or are considered less offensive as in other Regions.
                         
                        Refering to the Spanish terms, there are numerous terms such as Mestizo, Cafuzo, Sambo and various other terms of other Linguistic origins which describe the different mixes of African/European, African/Amerindian, African/East Indian, African/Chinese, Amerindian/European and East Indian/European and so on.
                         
                        I understood what you meant when you used the term Mulatto as meaning someone of mixed African and European heritage who is of a light-skinned complexion.
                         
                        Regards
                         
                        Jon
                         

                        kizzyann sam <kaas79@...> wrote:
                        I'm sorry Neville i should not have placed the word race at the end of
                        Mulatto, but the word Mulatto sometimes completely describes what a person
                        would look like. My great grandfather as i was told had very pale complexion
                        and it was difficult for anyone to know he had a drop of black blood in him
                        unless that information was given to them . So by me saying Mulatto, members
                        of the group i hope have a better understanding of the person i am looking
                        for, if they were asking another individual instead of a paper trail.

                        >From: Neville Quelch <nquelch@...>
                        >Reply-To: guyanese_genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                        >To: guyanese_genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                        >Subject: Re: [guyanese_genealogy] searching
                        >Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 16:08:31 -0400 (EDT)
                        >
                        >Hello All:
                        >
                        >I have been reading all of the correspondence with great interest.  I am
                        >not searching for my family but enjoying the way you all have put energy
                        >and time in helping each other.  I have never before seen Guyanese working
                        >together in a common cause since independence.  Obviously it takes
                        >politicians to screw-up the works.  Please do not let any politicians in.
                        >
                        >I have one comment to make to Kizzyann.  Mulatto is not a race.  The
                        >Americans used a one percent rule that stated if a person had 1% Black
                        >blood then the person is Black.  By using that rule, the various shades of
                        >Black peoples have a common history.  If that history is taken away, then
                        >the people termed mulatto would be without a history or place in the world.
                        >  I certainly don't mind if some Blacks were called cocoa brown, peanut
                        >brown,  etc.  At least they would be still be included as Blacks.
                        >
                        >With respect,
                        >
                        >Neville Quelch
                        >
                        >"Jon - Budmart.co.uk" <budmartuk@...> wrote:
                        >Hello Kizzyann
                        >
                        >I will have a look and see what i can find out and get back to you in a few
                        >days with any findings.
                        >
                        >Speak to you soon.
                        >
                        >Regards
                        >
                        >Jon
                        >
                        >kizzyasam <kaas79@...> wrote:
                        >My name is Kizzyann sam I am searching for my mother's (Florence
                        >Griffith) relatives.My mother was born in Bush Lot, Essequibo. All my
                        >father's genealogy records are accounted for. All i have to track my
                        >mother's side is very vage and almost non-exsistant, with names given
                        >to her from my grandmother (Margaret Griffith) who was afraid my mother
                        >would not be accepted into the family because of her skin color. My
                        >grandmother's father came to Guyana,from Barbados and settled in the
                        >pomeroon around early 1920'sor much earlier. His name was Griffith and
                        >of the malatto race. My grandmother's mother family came from India
                        >with the name...Cadeir... which the changed later to ....cadells... my
                        >spelling of these names may be a bit off. I would really like to
                        >reconect with this half of my family. If anyone has information i would
                        >really appreciate it.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
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                      • Neville Quelch
                        Hi Jon: I experienced some computer problems in the last week and could not get back to you. I suppose that in England and Europe the word mulatto is still
                        Message 11 of 22 , Jun 14, 2005
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Hi Jon:
                           
                          I experienced some computer problems in the last week and could not get back to you.
                           
                          I suppose that in England and Europe the word "mulatto" is still used.  In North America and when I grew up in British Guiana, it was never or seldom used..  Even in apartheid South Africa they preferred "Mixed" or "Coloured."  Guyanese seemed to prefer to call such a person '"A Red man."  I met some mulatto's at a function in Fredericton, New Brunswick about 15 years ago.  They were actually applying to the federal government for organizational funding. 
                           
                          According to one of the leading members the most had problems being accepted by either Blacks or Whites.  Now it makes me wonder why I did not have any problems. 
                           
                          My paternal grandfather was John J. Quelch.  He was a curator at the museum (his photograph hangs at the entrance).  He did tremendous work and found many native Guyanese tribes.  I don't know what else he did but the people at the museum become exuberant speaking about him.  Like I said, his trail completely vanished somewhere in the Atlantic.  My father never spoke about him and all we had is the museum.
                           
                          like others several years ago I began thinking that Guyana should revert back to a colony because we seem to prefer being ruled by White people than by ourselves and this does not mean Guyana only.
                           
                          You mentioned several ambitious plans to boost tourism.  In the UK you fill your stadiums every week with football and cricket.  The Guyanese population does not have the money to support a new stadium.  Who are the owners of these new facilities that are being constructed?  If it is the government then tax money will be thrown after white elephants.  Unless we are discussing services, governments should keep out of the business sector.
                           
                          I must put in a good word for Forbes Burnham and Chiddi Jagan.  When they were flirting with socialism and socialism, it was the "In thing" to do.  All developing countries except Japan were disillusioned with capitalism and were looking for an economic system that would be fair to the population. 
                           
                          Cuba and Venezuela had 90-95% poverty and 5-10% filthy rich.  Jagan and Burnham were trying to avoid economic policies to prevent that from happening.  Adam Smith's invisible hand is the best policy available.
                           
                          Neville
                          "Jon - Budmart.co.uk" <budmartuk@...> wrote:
                          Hello Neville
                           
                          Guyanese are very "Clannish" just like the Irish and others like the Jews, Greeks and Italians for example.
                           
                          By what you have stated, i assume that you are a "Mulatto" or similiar (i do not mean any offence if you find the term offensive as i am using it in a Historical context to mean someone of mixed Heritage), Nigeria and other parts of West Africa are the main places of origin for Afro-Guyanese and there were a lot of Scots in Guyana, they mostly filled the positions of Overseer on the Plantations.
                           
                          I have also heard that Quelch can also be Squelch, Welsh, Walsh or Welch which may still be of Scots origin but meaning a person that came from Wales.

                          I think most Guyanese proberly wish it would become a Colony again then we would be in the same situation as French Guiana, much better off !

                          There is still very much unfortunately a Class system in the U.K. and a Racial system where some get further than others because of their background or Ethnicity.

                          The English and other British peoples - the Scots and Welsh pretty much consider themselves as Patriots and don't like each other let alone anyone else, so it is quite hard to get accepted as a Outsider.

                          The British legal system is mainly the model for most Countries Worldwide as the English and Scottish Parliaments can be traced right back to the 11th and 13th Centuries respectively.

                          The Queen is still the head of State and the English Parliament is divided into the Lords and Commons, it also has the power over the Scottish, Welsh and Northern Ireland Parliaments and can veto or supercede any laws that they introduce if it wishes.

                          Guyana has all the resources to make something of itself but has never managed to use it effectively or wisely.

                          The British helped themselves to as much as they could while they were in charge and many Private Companies from Overseas have managed to make a good profit from these resources but Guyana hasn't managed to obtain anything from their own rich sources.

                          It has been Guyana's Government policies over the decades since Independence that have lead to its regression and shameful title as being "the poorest Country in the western Hemisphere".

                          Burnham's Government delved with Socialism and self-reliance cutting off trade with America and Western Europe and switching to Communist Countries and Rogue Middle Eastern States.

                          Jagan's Government originally toyed with Communism thus leading to his imprisonment by the British and the 1953 Emergency but on re-instatement in 1992 had to alter their ideas and look to America and Europe again for trade and funding.

                          Guyana did pick up a bit financially in the late 1990's as many Guyanese returned from Overseas and invested in the Country and things were on the up but they have now stopped in their tracks due to the current Security problem in the Country with widespread Banditry and Terrorism and their inability to deal with it.

                          I know that Guyana's beaches aren't up to the standard of West Indian beaches and eco-tourism is Guyana's main hope but strangely they have produced a number of artificial beaches over the years at resorts in the interior.

                          They are currently looking at turning Jonestown (morbid i know) into a tourist site as they think it will bring loads of American Tourists to Guyana !!

                          They are making a big preparation for the Cricket World Cup with the building of a new National Stadium and updating the other Grounds plus the construction of new Hotels in Georgetown including a super-Hotel complex which comprises a shopping centre and Casino.

                          They however, seem to have forgotten about the internal Crime problems which they need to get on top of before any mass Tourism to Guyana.

                          They have so much potential but it is being ruined not by Foreigners but by fellow Guyanese.

                          Regards

                          Jon


                          Neville Quelch <nquelch@...> wrote:

                          Hi Jon:
                           
                          I understand and appreciate you Guyanese cultural link.  My family in UK are exactly the same.  Some were born in the UK and others left Guyana at a very young age.  When we get together, it is as if we knew each other  and had close relationships.  I guess it is a family thing with Guyanese.
                           
                          My sister in the UK traced my maternal roots to Nigeria via Barbados.  My paternal roots started in Scotland however, according to another genealogy organization , the name Quelch was originally Welsh then Welsh and finally Quelch.  It would appear that somewhere along the line, welsh was used because the originator was from Wales.  Just maybe the same name transition occur ed with other enquiring members of the group.
                           
                          In trying to understand Guyana's economic stagnation I was made to understand that the senior civil servants with ability to translate government policy into action left Guyana for the West Indies and the people who took their places know as much as me - nothing,
                           
                          In the UK you have a King or Queen, Lords, etc.  While such a system may have worked in the past, it served as a model that was not wanted in Canada and the USA.  That system created a class society and provided me with the understanding of being "Put in one's Place."  The Canadian society, like that in the US, does not have a class system and as such, anyone can be whatever anyone wants - no limitations.  Maybe that is why the British started leaving in the Sixties.  As a matter of fact, any English and their children who have lived in Canada prior to he Nineteen-Sixties and still have not applied for immigrant status cannot become Canadians and cannot vote in any election.
                           
                          Like every other country, we have our problems - great and small but our politicians understand that the economy of the country comes first.  When I went to Guyana in 1972, I thought that it was similarly understood.  My next visit was in 1980 and although the economic growth was slower, developing countries around the world were reeling from balance of payments due to having borrowed (to feed economic development) from commercial banks at regular commercial rates.  I went back in 1992 and could not believe that I was in the Guyana that showed such promise in 1972.
                           
                          Since then Guyana has changed governments and now has a President that studied closed-economy economics and trying to use the theories in an open economy.  It cannot work and will not work.  As far as the riches of Guyana goes, Guyana needs foreign investment in terms of money and technology to develop its natural resources.  Additionally, a market must exist for the products and that is controlled by US and on a lessor scale, the EU and Japan.
                           
                          Developmental economists suggested developing countries trade among themselves and be inventive to satisfy their needs rather than try to use equipment from the developed countries.  While this was an exceedingly good idea, the US (in my opinion) in ensuring the developing countries remain dependant and has formed trading blocks with most of them.  At the same time, the US, EU and Japan control what is produced, by whom and what is the selling price.
                           
                          While Guyana can try to push tourism as an industry, North Americans look for sandy beaches in tropical countries during the long winters.  When the tides from the Amazon river turn back to the continent, Guyana is the recipient of muddy water.  Any clear water beaches would have to be found in the interior.  It is only with much TV advertisement Guyana can showcase safe photographic safaris as an effective alternative.
                           
                          Caribbean tourism should not have been necessary, Guyana hosted the Non-Aligned League of Nations and Carifesta in 1972.  Those were events to build on.
                           
                          Regards
                           
                          Neville

                          "Jon - Budmart.co.uk" <budmartuk@...> wrote:
                          Hello Neville
                           
                          I regard myself as British as i am born and raised in England but i don't regard myself as English as you pretty much have to be a "club member" to get into their "club".
                           
                          I prefer to call myself an Irish-Guyanese or ethnically a Eurasian/Anglo-Indian as my Mother is from Belfast and my Father from Port Mourant.
                           
                          I have a deep interest in both sides of my Family History and in both sides of my mixed Heritage.
                           
                          I have been to Guyana a number of times and been to various places in Berbice and Demerara.
                           
                          I may not have been born or bred there but i feel a strong link culturely.
                           
                          Regarding the comunication problems, i remember before Jagan coming to power having to travel miles to make a phone call home, Telecommunications are a lot better now plus now Guyana is online we can get news as it happens.
                           
                          For a little while there had been a lot of improvements, i had seen it for myself on many of my trips to Guyana but it has all seemed to have came to a halt and the Country unfortunately now seems to be regressing rather than progressing.
                           
                          Security is a major problem at the moment with the high rise in Crime and internal Terrorism.
                           
                          The Government is however investing a lot of money into Tourism and is hoping to highlight Guyana during the Cricket World Cup and put in onto the Caribbean Tourist map.
                           
                          Guyana is rich in resources, it has Gold, Diamonds, Oil and Bauxite amongst other main exports but seems to be poor in how it manages its affairs.
                           
                          I am also sure if Guyana was ever to receive a miraculous rebate or reparation from Britain it too would disappear just like George's Gold !!
                           
                          Nobody in the Towns or Villages would see any of it, thats for certain.
                           
                          Regards
                           
                          Jon

                          Neville Quelch <nquelch@...> wrote:
                          Hi Jon:
                           
                          I no longer call myself a Guyanese because I left in 1963 and worked all over Canada.  I was never able to keep up to date on Guyanese affairs  because of the obvious communication problems.  Today, I still keep out of Guyanese affairs and depend on people like you and this genealogy service for bits and pieces of information.  Any comments, as such, must be neutral  However, I saw real progress in 1972 when the company I worked for was contracted for the electrification program of the day.  I spent 5 months in Guyana watching new subdivisions, roads  and infrastructure projects in progress.  The electrification project would have permitted new industries to start and grow in the rural areas and help avoid the congestion problem that is plaguing most of the capital cities of the developing countries and especially South America.
                           
                          Before leaving Canada to work on the project, I was called into an executive's office and told that I was going back as a Canadian and must in no way get involved in Guyanese affairs.  During my 4th month, I was approached by the main opposition party first and by the governing party second for contributions.  I informed both parties of my directives and that I could not contribute any party.  It did not take very long after for me to be summoned and told that I was needed in Canada for another project.
                           
                          I will never know if it was arranged or a coincidence but I was needed in Canada.  I really wanted to contribute to Guyana's development in any small way that I could.  Recently, I looked at the yearly increase in GDP from 1960 to 2003.  I was surprised to learn that much development had not taken place.  If a miracle could take place where Guyana was reimbursed by the UK the money would disappear like that of the gold money of the famous composite "George Pitatoe(?)."
                           
                          Regards
                           
                          Neville

                          "Jon - Budmart.co.uk" <budmartuk@...> wrote:
                          Hello Neville
                           
                          Thanks for your comments.
                           
                          Most Guyanese can trace their History back to the time of Slavery or Indenture.
                           
                          With the exception of the Amerindians who are the Native people of Guyana, all our Ancestors arrived in Guyana in one way or another due to the Sugar Industry.
                           
                          Sugar and Cotton were the two main exports that kept the British Empire running and Britain very wealthy.
                           
                          Britain is still a wealthy Nation today because of it's previous exploitation of "cheap labour" over the last 300 years or so.
                           
                          Although it may acknowledge it built it's wealth on the backs of our Ancestors, we are very unlikely to ever see any remorse or receive any apologies in anyway.
                           
                          Some have suggested the paying of reparations but this would bankrupt Britain as it was the main abuser of the Slavery/Indenture systems.
                           
                          Anyway it is all part of our History and the best thing to do is to build a decent future rather than living in the past.
                           
                          Regards
                           
                          Jon

                          Neville Quelch <nquelch@...> wrote:
                          Hi Jon:
                           
                          Thanks for the lesson.  It just goes to show what can be derived from the use of cheap labour in the production of economic goods.
                           
                          Enjoying this,
                           
                          Neville

                          "Jon - Budmart.co.uk" <budmartuk@...> wrote:
                          Hello Neville and Kizzyann
                           
                          There are numerous ways of looking at the point.
                           
                          Overall any one that isn't White is Black, then you have the different categories of Black - African, Indian, Mixed Heritage etc etc.
                           
                          There are a lot of people who have always considered themselves as "White" but have Black blood in them and they aren't aware of it until it has passed down the generations to their offspring.
                           
                          The term Mulatto is generally used in the Caribbean to describe someone who is either of mixed parentage (European/African) or of Mulatto parentage.
                           
                          They usually tend to be light skinned and have a mixture of European and African features.
                           
                          The terms Quadroon (a person having one-quarter African ancestry), Octoroon (a person whose ancestry is one-eighth African) and Quinteroon (a person who is one-sixteenth African; counted as White in some Countries) are also in use although less nowadays.
                           
                          These terms originate from the Colonial days especially in Spanish Colonies where your Racial make-up could affect your status in life and your inheritance, the laws were slightly more lax in the British Colonies.
                           
                          A lot of terms which are now deemed derogatory are still in common usage in the Caribbean where they aren't considered offensive or are considered less offensive as in other Regions.
                           
                          Refering to the Spanish terms, there are numerous terms such as Mestizo, Cafuzo, Sambo and various other terms of other Linguistic origins which describe the different mixes of African/European, African/Amerindian, African/East Indian, African/Chinese, Amerindian/European and East Indian/European and so on.
                           
                          I understood what you meant when you used the term Mulatto as meaning someone of mixed African and European heritage who is of a light-skinned complexion.
                           
                          Regards
                           
                          Jon
                           

                          kizzyann sam <kaas79@...> wrote:
                          I'm sorry Neville i should not have placed the word race at the end of
                          Mulatto, but the word Mulatto sometimes completely describes what a person
                          would look like. My great grandfather as i was told had very pale complexion
                          and it was difficult for anyone to know he had a drop of black blood in him
                          unless that information was given to them . So by me saying Mulatto, members
                          of the group i hope have a better understanding of the person i am looking
                          for, if they were asking another individual instead of a paper trail.

                          >From: Neville Quelch <nquelch@...>
                          >Reply-To: guyanese_genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                          >To: guyanese_genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                          >Subject: Re: [guyanese_genealogy] searching
                          >Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 16:08:31 -0400 (EDT)
                          >
                          >Hello All:
                          >
                          >I have been reading all of the correspondence with great interest.  I am
                          >not searching for my family but enjoying the way you all have put energy
                          >and time in helping each other.  I have never before seen Guyanese working
                          >together in a common cause since independence.  Obviously it takes
                          >politicians to screw-up the works.  Please do not let any politicians in.
                          >
                          >I have one comment to make to Kizzyann.  Mulatto is not a race.  The
                          >Americans used a one percent rule that stated if a person had 1% Black
                          >blood then the person is Black.  By using that rule, the various shades of
                          >Black peoples have a common history.  If that history is taken away, then
                          >the people termed mulatto would be without a history or place in the world.
                          >  I certainly don't mind if some Blacks were called cocoa brown, peanut
                          >brown,  etc.  At least they would be still be included as Blacks.
                          >
                          >With respect,
                          >
                          >Neville Quelch
                          >
                          >"Jon - Budmart.co.uk" <budmartuk@...> wrote:
                          >Hello Kizzyann
                          >
                          >I will have a look and see what i can find out and get back to you in a few
                          >days with any findings.
                          >
                          >Speak to you soon.
                          >
                          >Regards
                          >
                          >Jon
                          >
                          >kizzyasam <kaas79@...> wrote:
                          >My name is Kizzyann sam I am searching for my mother's (Florence
                          >Griffith) relatives.My mother was born in Bush Lot, Essequibo. All my
                          >father's genealogy records are accounted for. All i have to track my
                          >mother's side is very vage and almost non-exsistant, with names given
                          >to her from my grandmother (Margaret Griffith) who was afraid my mother
                          >would not be accepted into the family because of her skin color. My
                          >grandmother's father came to Guyana,from Barbados and settled in the
                          >pomeroon around early 1920'sor much earlier. His name was Griffith and
                          >of the malatto race. My grandmother's mother family came from India
                          >with the name...Cadeir... which the changed later to ....cadells... my
                          >spelling of these names may be a bit off. I would really like to
                          >reconect with this half of my family. If anyone has information i would
                          >really appreciate it.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
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                        • Jon - Budmart.co.uk
                          Hello Neville I have been experiencing some Internet problems myself yesterday and today and have had trouble getting access. The term Mulatto derives from
                          Message 12 of 22 , Jun 16, 2005
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Hello Neville
                             
                            I have been experiencing some Internet problems myself yesterday and today and have had trouble getting access.
                             
                            The term "Mulatto" derives from Spanish and means "Mule", it isn't used in England by the majority of people who aren't acquainted with the term but i don't know about it's usage in Spain.
                             
                            I have heard it being used in the Caribbean but have also heard other terms you mentioned such as "Red man", i haven't heard of them getting together before to form any organisations.
                             
                            Over here Mulattos are normally refered to as being "Black" or mixed race they are normally accepted here by other Black people but not always by White people.
                             
                            I have been to the Museum a few times, i have proberly your Grandfather's picture on the wall.
                             
                            It is something i could look into when i get some time, i will keep your details and see what i can find out.
                             
                            I think most Guyanese wish the British stayed, not really them as a people but rather their money and the investment they made !
                             
                            Guyana has no money for Stadiums but one is being built for free for them by the Indian Government, how things change, Guyana used to send food to India to feed the starving and now they are getting handouts from India !!
                             
                            The Government is going into Tourism in a big way, just recently they had a big Trade and Tourism fair to encourage travel to Guyana.
                             
                            Some of the ideals of Socialism sound good but they never work as people are never fair and only look after their own interests, even China realises Communism is kaput but won't accept it, they have one of the largest Economies in the World and are a Capitalist State in all but name (they call it a economic experiment).
                             
                            There are always going to be some greedy persons in power who will syphon off funds into their own Bank Accounts while their people live in poverty.
                             
                            I will see what i can find out about John Quelch when i have some free time and get back to you with any findings.
                             
                            Speak to you soon.
                             
                            Regards
                             
                            Jon

                            Neville Quelch <nquelch@...> wrote:
                            Hi Jon:
                             
                            I experienced some computer problems in the last week and could not get back to you.
                             
                            I suppose that in England and Europe the word "mulatto" is still used.  In North America and when I grew up in British Guiana, it was never or seldom used..  Even in apartheid South Africa they preferred "Mixed" or "Coloured."  Guyanese seemed to prefer to call such a person '"A Red man."  I met some mulatto's at a function in Fredericton, New Brunswick about 15 years ago.  They were actually applying to the federal government for organizational funding. 
                             
                            According to one of the leading members the most had problems being accepted by either Blacks or Whites.  Now it makes me wonder why I did not have any problems. 
                             
                            My paternal grandfather was John J. Quelch.  He was a curator at the museum (his photograph hangs at the entrance).  He did tremendous work and found many native Guyanese tribes.  I don't know what else he did but the people at the museum become exuberant speaking about him.  Like I said, his trail completely vanished somewhere in the Atlantic.  My father never spoke about him and all we had is the museum.
                             
                            like others several years ago I began thinking that Guyana should revert back to a colony because we seem to prefer being ruled by White people than by ourselves and this does not mean Guyana only.
                             
                            You mentioned several ambitious plans to boost tourism.  In the UK you fill your stadiums every week with football and cricket.  The Guyanese population does not have the money to support a new stadium.  Who are the owners of these new facilities that are being constructed?  If it is the government then tax money will be thrown after white elephants.  Unless we are discussing services, governments should keep out of the business sector.
                             
                            I must put in a good word for Forbes Burnham and Chiddi Jagan.  When they were flirting with socialism and socialism, it was the "In thing" to do.  All developing countries except Japan were disillusioned with capitalism and were looking for an economic system that would be fair to the population. 
                             
                            Cuba and Venezuela had 90-95% poverty and 5-10% filthy rich.  Jagan and Burnham were trying to avoid economic policies to prevent that from happening.  Adam Smith's invisible hand is the best policy available.
                             
                            Neville
                            "Jon - Budmart.co.uk" <budmartuk@...> wrote:
                            Hello Neville
                             
                            Guyanese are very "Clannish" just like the Irish and others like the Jews, Greeks and Italians for example.
                             
                            By what you have stated, i assume that you are a "Mulatto" or similiar (i do not mean any offence if you find the term offensive as i am using it in a Historical context to mean someone of mixed Heritage), Nigeria and other parts of West Africa are the main places of origin for Afro-Guyanese and there were a lot of Scots in Guyana, they mostly filled the positions of Overseer on the Plantations.
                             
                            I have also heard that Quelch can also be Squelch, Welsh, Walsh or Welch which may still be of Scots origin but meaning a person that came from Wales.

                            I think most Guyanese proberly wish it would become a Colony again then we would be in the same situation as French Guiana, much better off !

                            There is still very much unfortunately a Class system in the U.K. and a Racial system where some get further than others because of their background or Ethnicity.

                            The English and other British peoples - the Scots and Welsh pretty much consider themselves as Patriots and don't like each other let alone anyone else, so it is quite hard to get accepted as a Outsider.

                            The British legal system is mainly the model for most Countries Worldwide as the English and Scottish Parliaments can be traced right back to the 11th and 13th Centuries respectively.

                            The Queen is still the head of State and the English Parliament is divided into the Lords and Commons, it also has the power over the Scottish, Welsh and Northern Ireland Parliaments and can veto or supercede any laws that they introduce if it wishes.

                            Guyana has all the resources to make something of itself but has never managed to use it effectively or wisely.

                            The British helped themselves to as much as they could while they were in charge and many Private Companies from Overseas have managed to make a good profit from these resources but Guyana hasn't managed to obtain anything from their own rich sources.

                            It has been Guyana's Government policies over the decades since Independence that have lead to its regression and shameful title as being "the poorest Country in the western Hemisphere".

                            Burnham's Government delved with Socialism and self-reliance cutting off trade with America and Western Europe and switching to Communist Countries and Rogue Middle Eastern States.

                            Jagan's Government originally toyed with Communism thus leading to his imprisonment by the British and the 1953 Emergency but on re-instatement in 1992 had to alter their ideas and look to America and Europe again for trade and funding.

                            Guyana did pick up a bit financially in the late 1990's as many Guyanese returned from Overseas and invested in the Country and things were on the up but they have now stopped in their tracks due to the current Security problem in the Country with widespread Banditry and Terrorism and their inability to deal with it.

                            I know that Guyana's beaches aren't up to the standard of West Indian beaches and eco-tourism is Guyana's main hope but strangely they have produced a number of artificial beaches over the years at resorts in the interior.

                            They are currently looking at turning Jonestown (morbid i know) into a tourist site as they think it will bring loads of American Tourists to Guyana !!

                            They are making a big preparation for the Cricket World Cup with the building of a new National Stadium and updating the other Grounds plus the construction of new Hotels in Georgetown including a super-Hotel complex which comprises a shopping centre and Casino.

                            They however, seem to have forgotten about the internal Crime problems which they need to get on top of before any mass Tourism to Guyana.

                            They have so much potential but it is being ruined not by Foreigners but by fellow Guyanese.

                            Regards

                            Jon


                            Neville Quelch <nquelch@...> wrote:

                            Hi Jon:
                             
                            I understand and appreciate you Guyanese cultural link.  My family in UK are exactly the same.  Some were born in the UK and others left Guyana at a very young age.  When we get together, it is as if we knew each other  and had close relationships.  I guess it is a family thing with Guyanese.
                             
                            My sister in the UK traced my maternal roots to Nigeria via Barbados.  My paternal roots started in Scotland however, according to another genealogy organization , the name Quelch was originally Welsh then Welsh and finally Quelch.  It would appear that somewhere along the line, welsh was used because the originator was from Wales.  Just maybe the same name transition occur ed with other enquiring members of the group.
                             
                            In trying to understand Guyana's economic stagnation I was made to understand that the senior civil servants with ability to translate government policy into action left Guyana for the West Indies and the people who took their places know as much as me - nothing,
                             
                            In the UK you have a King or Queen, Lords, etc.  While such a system may have worked in the past, it served as a model that was not wanted in Canada and the USA.  That system created a class society and provided me with the understanding of being "Put in one's Place."  The Canadian society, like that in the US, does not have a class system and as such, anyone can be whatever anyone wants - no limitations.  Maybe that is why the British started leaving in the Sixties.  As a matter of fact, any English and their children who have lived in Canada prior to he Nineteen-Sixties and still have not applied for immigrant status cannot become Canadians and cannot vote in any election.
                             
                            Like every other country, we have our problems - great and small but our politicians understand that the economy of the country comes first.  When I went to Guyana in 1972, I thought that it was similarly understood.  My next visit was in 1980 and although the economic growth was slower, developing countries around the world were reeling from balance of payments due to having borrowed (to feed economic development) from commercial banks at regular commercial rates.  I went back in 1992 and could not believe that I was in the Guyana that showed such promise in 1972.
                             
                            Since then Guyana has changed governments and now has a President that studied closed-economy economics and trying to use the theories in an open economy.  It cannot work and will not work.  As far as the riches of Guyana goes, Guyana needs foreign investment in terms of money and technology to develop its natural resources.  Additionally, a market must exist for the products and that is controlled by US and on a lessor scale, the EU and Japan.
                             
                            Developmental economists suggested developing countries trade among themselves and be inventive to satisfy their needs rather than try to use equipment from the developed countries.  While this was an exceedingly good idea, the US (in my opinion) in ensuring the developing countries remain dependant and has formed trading blocks with most of them.  At the same time, the US, EU and Japan control what is produced, by whom and what is the selling price.
                             
                            While Guyana can try to push tourism as an industry, North Americans look for sandy beaches in tropical countries during the long winters.  When the tides from the Amazon river turn back to the continent, Guyana is the recipient of muddy water.  Any clear water beaches would have to be found in the interior.  It is only with much TV advertisement Guyana can showcase safe photographic safaris as an effective alternative.
                             
                            Caribbean tourism should not have been necessary, Guyana hosted the Non-Aligned League of Nations and Carifesta in 1972.  Those were events to build on.
                             
                            Regards
                             
                            Neville

                            "Jon - Budmart.co.uk" <budmartuk@...> wrote:
                            Hello Neville
                             
                            I regard myself as British as i am born and raised in England but i don't regard myself as English as you pretty much have to be a "club member" to get into their "club".
                             
                            I prefer to call myself an Irish-Guyanese or ethnically a Eurasian/Anglo-Indian as my Mother is from Belfast and my Father from Port Mourant.
                             
                            I have a deep interest in both sides of my Family History and in both sides of my mixed Heritage.
                             
                            I have been to Guyana a number of times and been to various places in Berbice and Demerara.
                             
                            I may not have been born or bred there but i feel a strong link culturely.
                             
                            Regarding the comunication problems, i remember before Jagan coming to power having to travel miles to make a phone call home, Telecommunications are a lot better now plus now Guyana is online we can get news as it happens.
                             
                            For a little while there had been a lot of improvements, i had seen it for myself on many of my trips to Guyana but it has all seemed to have came to a halt and the Country unfortunately now seems to be regressing rather than progressing.
                             
                            Security is a major problem at the moment with the high rise in Crime and internal Terrorism.
                             
                            The Government is however investing a lot of money into Tourism and is hoping to highlight Guyana during the Cricket World Cup and put in onto the Caribbean Tourist map.
                             
                            Guyana is rich in resources, it has Gold, Diamonds, Oil and Bauxite amongst other main exports but seems to be poor in how it manages its affairs.
                             
                            I am also sure if Guyana was ever to receive a miraculous rebate or reparation from Britain it too would disappear just like George's Gold !!
                             
                            Nobody in the Towns or Villages would see any of it, thats for certain.
                             
                            Regards
                             
                            Jon

                            Neville Quelch <nquelch@...> wrote:
                            Hi Jon:
                             
                            I no longer call myself a Guyanese because I left in 1963 and worked all over Canada.  I was never able to keep up to date on Guyanese affairs  because of the obvious communication problems.  Today, I still keep out of Guyanese affairs and depend on people like you and this genealogy service for bits and pieces of information.  Any comments, as such, must be neutral  However, I saw real progress in 1972 when the company I worked for was contracted for the electrification program of the day.  I spent 5 months in Guyana watching new subdivisions, roads  and infrastructure projects in progress.  The electrification project would have permitted new industries to start and grow in the rural areas and help avoid the congestion problem that is plaguing most of the capital cities of the developing countries and especially South America.
                             
                            Before leaving Canada to work on the project, I was called into an executive's office and told that I was going back as a Canadian and must in no way get involved in Guyanese affairs.  During my 4th month, I was approached by the main opposition party first and by the governing party second for contributions.  I informed both parties of my directives and that I could not contribute any party.  It did not take very long after for me to be summoned and told that I was needed in Canada for another project.
                             
                            I will never know if it was arranged or a coincidence but I was needed in Canada.  I really wanted to contribute to Guyana's development in any small way that I could.  Recently, I looked at the yearly increase in GDP from 1960 to 2003.  I was surprised to learn that much development had not taken place.  If a miracle could take place where Guyana was reimbursed by the UK the money would disappear like that of the gold money of the famous composite "George Pitatoe(?)."
                             
                            Regards
                             
                            Neville

                            "Jon - Budmart.co.uk" <budmartuk@...> wrote:
                            Hello Neville
                             
                            Thanks for your comments.
                             
                            Most Guyanese can trace their History back to the time of Slavery or Indenture.
                             
                            With the exception of the Amerindians who are the Native people of Guyana, all our Ancestors arrived in Guyana in one way or another due to the Sugar Industry.
                             
                            Sugar and Cotton were the two main exports that kept the British Empire running and Britain very wealthy.
                             
                            Britain is still a wealthy Nation today because of it's previous exploitation of "cheap labour" over the last 300 years or so.
                             
                            Although it may acknowledge it built it's wealth on the backs of our Ancestors, we are very unlikely to ever see any remorse or receive any apologies in anyway.
                             
                            Some have suggested the paying of reparations but this would bankrupt Britain as it was the main abuser of the Slavery/Indenture systems.
                             
                            Anyway it is all part of our History and the best thing to do is to build a decent future rather than living in the past.
                             
                            Regards
                             
                            Jon

                            Neville Quelch <nquelch@...> wrote:
                            Hi Jon:
                             
                            Thanks for the lesson.  It just goes to show what can be derived from the use of cheap labour in the production of economic goods.
                             
                            Enjoying this,
                             
                            Neville

                            "Jon - Budmart.co.uk" <budmartuk@...> wrote:
                            Hello Neville and Kizzyann
                             
                            There are numerous ways of looking at the point.
                             
                            Overall any one that isn't White is Black, then you have the different categories of Black - African, Indian, Mixed Heritage etc etc.
                             
                            There are a lot of people who have always considered themselves as "White" but have Black blood in them and they aren't aware of it until it has passed down the generations to their offspring.
                             
                            The term Mulatto is generally used in the Caribbean to describe someone who is either of mixed parentage (European/African) or of Mulatto parentage.
                             
                            They usually tend to be light skinned and have a mixture of European and African features.
                             
                            The terms Quadroon (a person having one-quarter African ancestry), Octoroon (a person whose ancestry is one-eighth African) and Quinteroon (a person who is one-sixteenth African; counted as White in some Countries) are also in use although less nowadays.
                             
                            These terms originate from the Colonial days especially in Spanish Colonies where your Racial make-up could affect your status in life and your inheritance, the laws were slightly more lax in the British Colonies.
                             
                            A lot of terms which are now deemed derogatory are still in common usage in the Caribbean where they aren't considered offensive or are considered less offensive as in other Regions.
                             
                            Refering to the Spanish terms, there are numerous terms such as Mestizo, Cafuzo, Sambo and various other terms of other Linguistic origins which describe the different mixes of African/European, African/Amerindian, African/East Indian, African/Chinese, Amerindian/European and East Indian/European and so on.
                             
                            I understood what you meant when you used the term Mulatto as meaning someone of mixed African and European heritage who is of a light-skinned complexion.
                             
                            Regards
                             
                            Jon
                             

                            kizzyann sam <kaas79@...> wrote:
                            I'm sorry Neville i should not have placed the word race at the end of
                            Mulatto, but the word Mulatto sometimes completely describes what a person
                            would look like. My great grandfather as i was told had very pale complexion
                            and it was difficult for anyone to know he had a drop of black blood in him
                            unless that information was given to them . So by me saying Mulatto, members
                            of the group i hope have a better understanding of the person i am looking
                            for, if they were asking another individual instead of a paper trail.

                            >From: Neville Quelch <nquelch@...>
                            >Reply-To: guyanese_genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                            >To: guyanese_genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                            >Subject: Re: [guyanese_genealogy] searching
                            >Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 16:08:31 -0400 (EDT)
                            >
                            >Hello All:
                            >
                            >I have been reading all of the correspondence with great interest.  I am
                            >not searching for my family but enjoying the way you all have put energy
                            >and time in helping each other.  I have never before seen Guyanese working
                            >together in a common cause since independence.  Obviously it takes
                            >politicians to screw-up the works.  Please do not let any politicians in.
                            >
                            >I have one comment to make to Kizzyann.  Mulatto is not a race.  The
                            >Americans used a one percent rule that stated if a person had 1% Black
                            >blood then the person is Black.  By using that rule, the various shades of
                            >Black peoples have a common history.  If that history is taken away, then
                            >the people termed mulatto would be without a history or place in the world.
                            >  I certainly don't mind if some Blacks were called cocoa brown, peanut
                            >brown,  etc.  At least they would be still be included as Blacks.
                            >
                            >With respect,
                            >
                            >Neville Quelch
                            >
                            >"Jon - Budmart.co.uk" <budmartuk@...> wrote:
                            >Hello Kizzyann
                            >
                            >I will have a look and see what i can find out and get back to you in a few
                            >days with any findings.
                            >
                            >Speak to you soon.
                            >
                            >Regards
                            >
                            >Jon
                            >
                            >kizzyasam <kaas79@...> wrote:
                            >My name is Kizzyann sam I am searching for my mother's (Florence
                            >Griffith) relatives.My mother was born in Bush Lot, Essequibo. All my
                            >father's genealogy records are accounted for. All i have to track my
                            >mother's side is very vage and almost non-exsistant, with names given
                            >to her from my grandmother (Margaret Griffith) who was afraid my mother
                            >would not be accepted into the family because of her skin color. My
                            >grandmother's father came to Guyana,from Barbados and settled in the
                            >pomeroon around early 1920'sor much earlier. His name was Griffith and
                            >of the malatto race. My grandmother's mother family came from India
                            >with the name...Cadeir... which the changed later to ....cadells... my
                            >spelling of these names may be a bit off. I would really like to
                            >reconect with this half of my family. If anyone has information i would
                            >really appreciate it.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >Visit Budmart.co.uk for all your Collecting needs !
                            >
                            >
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                          • Jenn
                            Jon, The Merriam-Webster listed the definition of mulatto as a person of mixed white and black ancestry. Growing up in Guyana I often heard this term as
                            Message 13 of 22 , Jun 16, 2005
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Message
                              Jon,
                               
                              The Merriam-Webster listed the definition of "mulatto" as "a person of mixed white and black ancestry.
                               
                              Growing up in Guyana I often heard this term as well as "dougla" for "a person of mixed Indian and black ancestry."  I have not been able to find a dictionary definition for dougla.
                               
                              However, I always thought that Guyana was more progressive than the rest of the world since they gave recognition to both ancestries.  In the US and many other places in the world, even if you are 1/16 black, you're just black regardless of the rest of your ancestry.  Today in Guyana many "doglas" choose to be either black or Indian.  In my opinion this just helps to foster the racial problems.  Why not use a term that gives recognition to all of your ancestry? 
                               
                              I personally do not like the terms "colored" or "mixed."  We are all colored ... some fairer, some darker ... but we all have some coloring or the other.  Mixed to me just seems derogatory ... you are of different races, but we don't care to recognize which ones ... just mixed.  I think all ancestry should be recognized and honored.
                               
                              Just my two cents worth.
                               
                              Jenn
                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: guyanese_genealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:guyanese_genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jon - Budmart.co.uk
                              Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 2:04 PM
                              To: guyanese_genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [guyanese_genealogy] Neville

                              Hello Neville
                               
                              I have been experiencing some Internet problems myself yesterday and today and have had trouble getting access.
                               
                              The term "Mulatto" derives from Spanish and means "Mule", it isn't used in England by the majority of people who aren't acquainted with the term but i don't know about it's usage in Spain.
                               
                              I have heard it being used in the Caribbean but have also heard other terms you mentioned such as "Red man", i haven't heard of them getting together before to form any organisations.
                               
                              Over here Mulattos are normally refered to as being "Black" or mixed race they are normally accepted here by other Black people but not always by White people.
                               
                              I have been to the Museum a few times, i have proberly your Grandfather's picture on the wall.
                               
                              It is something i could look into when i get some time, i will keep your details and see what i can find out.
                               
                              I think most Guyanese wish the British stayed, not really them as a people but rather their money and the investment they made !
                               
                              Guyana has no money for Stadiums but one is being built for free for them by the Indian Government, how things change, Guyana used to send food to India to feed the starving and now they are getting handouts from India !!
                               
                              The Government is going into Tourism in a big way, just recently they had a big Trade and Tourism fair to encourage travel to Guyana.
                               
                              Some of the ideals of Socialism sound good but they never work as people are never fair and only look after their own interests, even China realises Communism is kaput but won't accept it, they have one of the largest Economies in the World and are a Capitalist State in all but name (they call it a economic experiment).
                               
                              There are always going to be some greedy persons in power who will syphon off funds into their own Bank Accounts while their people live in poverty.
                               
                              I will see what i can find out about John Quelch when i have some free time and get back to you with any findings.
                               
                              Speak to you soon.
                               
                              Regards
                               
                              Jon

                              Neville Quelch <nquelch@...> wrote:
                              Hi Jon:
                               
                              I experienced some computer problems in the last week and could not get back to you.
                               
                              I suppose that in England and Europe the word "mulatto" is still used.  In North America and when I grew up in British Guiana, it was never or seldom used..  Even in apartheid South Africa they preferred "Mixed" or "Coloured."  Guyanese seemed to prefer to call such a person '"A Red man."  I met some mulatto's at a function in Fredericton, New Brunswick about 15 years ago.  They were actually applying to the federal government for organizational funding. 
                               
                              According to one of the leading members the most had problems being accepted by either Blacks or Whites.  Now it makes me wonder why I did not have any problems. 
                               
                              My paternal grandfather was John J. Quelch.  He was a curator at the museum (his photograph hangs at the entrance).  He did tremendous work and found many native Guyanese tribes.  I don't know what else he did but the people at the museum become exuberant speaking about him.  Like I said, his trail completely vanished somewhere in the Atlantic.  My father never spoke about him and all we had is the museum.
                               
                              like others several years ago I began thinking that Guyana should revert back to a colony because we seem to prefer being ruled by White people than by ourselves and this does not mean Guyana only.
                               
                              You mentioned several ambitious plans to boost tourism.  In the UK you fill your stadiums every week with football and cricket.  The Guyanese population does not have the money to support a new stadium.  Who are the owners of these new facilities that are being constructed?  If it is the government then tax money will be thrown after white elephants.  Unless we are discussing services, governments should keep out of the business sector.
                               
                              I must put in a good word for Forbes Burnham and Chiddi Jagan.  When they were flirting with socialism and socialism, it was the "In thing" to do.  All developing countries except Japan were disillusioned with capitalism and were looking for an economic system that would be fair to the population. 
                               
                              Cuba and Venezuela had 90-95% poverty and 5-10% filthy rich.  Jagan and Burnham were trying to avoid economic policies to prevent that from happening.  Adam Smith's invisible hand is the best policy available.
                               
                              Neville
                              "Jon - Budmart.co.uk" <budmartuk@...> wrote:
                              Hello Neville
                               
                              Guyanese are very "Clannish" just like the Irish and others like the Jews, Greeks and Italians for example.
                               
                              By what you have stated, i assume that you are a "Mulatto" or similiar (i do not mean any offence if you find the term offensive as i am using it in a Historical context to mean someone of mixed Heritage), Nigeria and other parts of West Africa are the main places of origin for Afro-Guyanese and there were a lot of Scots in Guyana, they mostly filled the positions of Overseer on the Plantations.
                               
                              I have also heard that Quelch can also be Squelch, Welsh, Walsh or Welch which may still be of Scots origin but meaning a person that came from Wales.

                              I think most Guyanese proberly wish it would become a Colony again then we would be in the same situation as French Guiana, much better off !

                              There is still very much unfortunately a Class system in the U.K. and a Racial system where some get further than others because of their background or Ethnicity.

                              The English and other British peoples - the Scots and Welsh pretty much consider themselves as Patriots and don't like each other let alone anyone else, so it is quite hard to get accepted as a Outsider.

                              The British legal system is mainly the model for most Countries Worldwide as the English and Scottish Parliaments can be traced right back to the 11th and 13th Centuries respectively.

                              The Queen is still the head of State and the English Parliament is divided into the Lords and Commons, it also has the power over the Scottish, Welsh and Northern Ireland Parliaments and can veto or supercede any laws that they introduce if it wishes.

                              Guyana has all the resources to make something of itself but has never managed to use it effectively or wisely.

                              The British helped themselves to as much as they could while they were in charge and many Private Companies from Overseas have managed to make a good profit from these resources but Guyana hasn't managed to obtain anything from their own rich sources.

                              It has been Guyana's Government policies over the decades since Independence that have lead to its regression and shameful title as being "the poorest Country in the western Hemisphere".

                              Burnham's Government delved with Socialism and self-reliance cutting off trade with America and Western Europe and switching to Communist Countries and Rogue Middle Eastern States.

                              Jagan's Government originally toyed with Communism thus leading to his imprisonment by the British and the 1953 Emergency but on re-instatement in 1992 had to alter their ideas and look to America and Europe again for trade and funding.

                              Guyana did pick up a bit financially in the late 1990's as many Guyanese returned from Overseas and invested in the Country and things were on the up but they have now stopped in their tracks due to the current Security problem in the Country with widespread Banditry and Terrorism and their inability to deal with it.

                              I know that Guyana's beaches aren't up to the standard of West Indian beaches and eco-tourism is Guyana's main hope but strangely they have produced a number of artificial beaches over the years at resorts in the interior.

                              They are currently looking at turning Jonestown (morbid i know) into a tourist site as they think it will bring loads of American Tourists to Guyana !!

                              They are making a big preparation for the Cricket World Cup with the building of a new National Stadium and updating the other Grounds plus the construction of new Hotels in Georgetown including a super-Hotel complex which comprises a shopping centre and Casino.

                              They however, seem to have forgotten about the internal Crime problems which they need to get on top of before any mass Tourism to Guyana.

                              They have so much potential but it is being ruined not by Foreigners but by fellow Guyanese.

                              Regards

                              Jon


                              Neville Quelch <nquelch@...> wrote:

                              Hi Jon:
                               
                              I understand and appreciate you Guyanese cultural link.  My family in UK are exactly the same.  Some were born in the UK and others left Guyana at a very young age.  When we get together, it is as if we knew each other  and had close relationships.  I guess it is a family thing with Guyanese.
                               
                              My sister in the UK traced my maternal roots to Nigeria via Barbados.  My paternal roots started in Scotland however, according to another genealogy organization , the name Quelch was originally Welsh then Welsh and finally Quelch.  It would appear that somewhere along the line, welsh was used because the originator was from Wales.  Just maybe the same name transition occur ed with other enquiring members of the group.
                               
                              In trying to understand Guyana's economic stagnation I was made to understand that the senior civil servants with ability to translate government policy into action left Guyana for the West Indies and the people who took their places know as much as me - nothing,
                               
                              In the UK you have a King or Queen, Lords, etc.  While such a system may have worked in the past, it served as a model that was not wanted in Canada and the USA.  That system created a class society and provided me with the understanding of being "Put in one's Place."  The Canadian society, like that in the US, does not have a class system and as such, anyone can be whatever anyone wants - no limitations.  Maybe that is why the British started leaving in the Sixties.  As a matter of fact, any English and their children who have lived in Canada prior to he Nineteen-Sixties and still have not applied for immigrant status cannot become Canadians and cannot vote in any election.
                               
                              Like every other country, we have our problems - great and small but our politicians understand that the economy of the country comes first.  When I went to Guyana in 1972, I thought that it was similarly understood.  My next visit was in 1980 and although the economic growth was slower, developing countries around the world were reeling from balance of payments due to having borrowed (to feed economic development) from commercial banks at regular commercial rates.  I went back in 1992 and could not believe that I was in the Guyana that showed such promise in 1972.
                               
                              Since then Guyana has changed governments and now has a President that studied closed-economy economics and trying to use the theories in an open economy.  It cannot work and will not work.  As far as the riches of Guyana goes, Guyana needs foreign investment in terms of money and technology to develop its natural resources.  Additionally, a market must exist for the products and that is controlled by US and on a lessor scale, the EU and Japan.
                               
                              Developmental economists suggested developing countries trade among themselves and be inventive to satisfy their needs rather than try to use equipment from the developed countries.  While this was an exceedingly good idea, the US (in my opinion) in ensuring the developing countries remain dependant and has formed trading blocks with most of them.  At the same time, the US, EU and Japan control what is produced, by whom and what is the selling price.
                               
                              While Guyana can try to push tourism as an industry, North Americans look for sandy beaches in tropical countries during the long winters.  When the tides from the Amazon river turn back to the continent, Guyana is the recipient of muddy water.  Any clear water beaches would have to be found in the interior.  It is only with much TV advertisement Guyana can showcase safe photographic safaris as an effective alternative.
                               
                              Caribbean tourism should not have been necessary, Guyana hosted the Non-Aligned League of Nations and Carifesta in 1972.  Those were events to build on.
                               
                              Regards
                               
                              Neville

                              "Jon - Budmart.co.uk" <budmartuk@...> wrote:
                              Hello Neville
                               
                              I regard myself as British as i am born and raised in England but i don't regard myself as English as you pretty much have to be a "club member" to get into their "club".
                               
                              I prefer to call myself an Irish-Guyanese or ethnically a Eurasian/Anglo-Indian as my Mother is from Belfast and my Father from Port Mourant.
                               
                              I have a deep interest in both sides of my Family History and in both sides of my mixed Heritage.
                               
                              I have been to Guyana a number of times and been to various places in Berbice and Demerara.
                               
                              I may not have been born or bred there but i feel a strong link culturely.
                               
                              Regarding the comunication problems, i remember before Jagan coming to power having to travel miles to make a phone call home, Telecommunications are a lot better now plus now Guyana is online we can get news as it happens.
                               
                              For a little while there had been a lot of improvements, i had seen it for myself on many of my trips to Guyana but it has all seemed to have came to a halt and the Country unfortunately now seems to be regressing rather than progressing.
                               
                              Security is a major problem at the moment with the high rise in Crime and internal Terrorism.
                               
                              The Government is however investing a lot of money into Tourism and is hoping to highlight Guyana during the Cricket World Cup and put in onto the Caribbean Tourist map.
                               
                              Guyana is rich in resources, it has Gold, Diamonds, Oil and Bauxite amongst other main exports but seems to be poor in how it manages its affairs.
                               
                              I am also sure if Guyana was ever to receive a miraculous rebate or reparation from Britain it too would disappear just like George's Gold !!
                               
                              Nobody in the Towns or Villages would see any of it, thats for certain.
                               
                              Regards
                               
                              Jon

                              Neville Quelch <nquelch@...> wrote:
                              Hi Jon:
                               
                              I no longer call myself a Guyanese because I left in 1963 and worked all over Canada.  I was never able to keep up to date on Guyanese affairs  because of the obvious communication problems.  Today, I still keep out of Guyanese affairs and depend on people like you and this genealogy service for bits and pieces of information.  Any comments, as such, must be neutral  However, I saw real progress in 1972 when the company I worked for was contracted for the electrification program of the day.  I spent 5 months in Guyana watching new subdivisions, roads  and infrastructure projects in progress.  The electrification project would have permitted new industries to start and grow in the rural areas and help avoid the congestion problem that is plaguing most of the capital cities of the developing countries and especially South America.
                               
                              Before leaving Canada to work on the project, I was called into an executive's office and told that I was going back as a Canadian and must in no way get involved in Guyanese affairs.  During my 4th month, I was approached by the main opposition party first and by the governing party second for contributions.  I informed both parties of my directives and that I could not contribute any party.  It did not take very long after for me to be summoned and told that I was needed in Canada for another project.
                               
                              I will never know if it was arranged or a coincidence but I was needed in Canada.  I really wanted to contribute to Guyana's development in any small way that I could.  Recently, I looked at the yearly increase in GDP from 1960 to 2003.  I was surprised to learn that much development had not taken place.  If a miracle could take place where Guyana was reimbursed by the UK the money would disappear like that of the gold money of the famous composite "George Pitatoe(?)."
                               
                              Regards
                               
                              Neville

                              "Jon - Budmart.co.uk" <budmartuk@...> wrote:
                              Hello Neville
                               
                              Thanks for your comments.
                               
                              Most Guyanese can trace their History back to the time of Slavery or Indenture.
                               
                              With the exception of the Amerindians who are the Native people of Guyana, all our Ancestors arrived in Guyana in one way or another due to the Sugar Industry.
                               
                              Sugar and Cotton were the two main exports that kept the British Empire running and Britain very wealthy.
                               
                              Britain is still a wealthy Nation today because of it's previous exploitation of "cheap labour" over the last 300 years or so.
                               
                              Although it may acknowledge it built it's wealth on the backs of our Ancestors, we are very unlikely to ever see any remorse or receive any apologies in anyway.
                               
                              Some have suggested the paying of reparations but this would bankrupt Britain as it was the main abuser of the Slavery/Indenture systems.
                               
                              Anyway it is all part of our History and the best thing to do is to build a decent future rather than living in the past.
                               
                              Regards
                               
                              Jon

                              Neville Quelch <nquelch@...> wrote:
                              Hi Jon:
                               
                              Thanks for the lesson.  It just goes to show what can be derived from the use of cheap labour in the production of economic goods.
                               
                              Enjoying this,
                               
                              Neville

                              "Jon - Budmart.co.uk" <budmartuk@...> wrote:
                              Hello Neville and Kizzyann
                               
                              There are numerous ways of looking at the point.
                               
                              Overall any one that isn't White is Black, then you have the different categories of Black - African, Indian, Mixed Heritage etc etc.
                               
                              There are a lot of people who have always considered themselves as "White" but have Black blood in them and they aren't aware of it until it has passed down the generations to their offspring.
                               
                              The term Mulatto is generally used in the Caribbean to describe someone who is either of mixed parentage (European/African) or of Mulatto parentage.
                               
                              They usually tend to be light skinned and have a mixture of European and African features.
                               
                              The terms Quadroon (a person having one-quarter African ancestry), Octoroon (a person whose ancestry is one-eighth African) and Quinteroon (a person who is one-sixteenth African; counted as White in some Countries) are also in use although less nowadays.
                               
                              These terms originate from the Colonial days especially in Spanish Colonies where your Racial make-up could affect your status in life and your inheritance, the laws were slightly more lax in the British Colonies.
                               
                              A lot of terms which are now deemed derogatory are still in common usage in the Caribbean where they aren't considered offensive or are considered less offensive as in other Regions.
                               
                              Refering to the Spanish terms, there are numerous terms such as Mestizo, Cafuzo, Sambo and various other terms of other Linguistic origins which describe the different mixes of African/European, African/Amerindian, African/East Indian, African/Chinese, Amerindian/European and East Indian/European and so on.
                               
                              I understood what you meant when you used the term Mulatto as meaning someone of mixed African and European heritage who is of a light-skinned complexion.
                               
                              Regards
                               
                              Jon
                               

                              kizzyann sam <kaas79@...> wrote:
                              I'm sorry Neville i should not have placed the word race at the end of
                              Mulatto, but the word Mulatto sometimes completely describes what a person
                              would look like. My great grandfather as i was told had very pale complexion
                              and it was difficult for anyone to know he had a drop of black blood in him
                              unless that information was given to them . So by me saying Mulatto, members
                              of the group i hope have a better understanding of the person i am looking
                              for, if they were asking another individual instead of a paper trail.

                              >From: Neville Quelch <nquelch@...>
                              >Reply-To: guyanese_genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                              >To: guyanese_genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                              >Subject: Re: [guyanese_genealogy] searching
                              >Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 16:08:31 -0400 (EDT)
                              >
                              >Hello All:
                              >
                              >I have been reading all of the correspondence with great interest.  I am
                              >not searching for my family but enjoying the way you all have put energy
                              >and time in helping each other.  I have never before seen Guyanese working
                              >together in a common cause since independence.  Obviously it takes
                              >politicians to screw-up the works.  Please do not let any politicians in.
                              >
                              >I have one comment to make to Kizzyann.  Mulatto is not a race.  The
                              >Americans used a one percent rule that stated if a person had 1% Black
                              >blood then the person is Black.  By using that rule, the various shades of
                              >Black peoples have a common history.  If that history is taken away, then
                              >the people termed mulatto would be without a history or place in the world.
                              >  I certainly don't mind if some Blacks were called cocoa brown, peanut
                              >brown,  etc.  At least they would be still be included as Blacks.
                              >
                              >With respect,
                              >
                              >Neville Quelch
                              >
                              >"Jon - Budmart.co.uk" <budmartuk@...> wrote:
                              >Hello Kizzyann
                              >
                              >I will have a look and see what i can find out and get back to you in a few
                              >days with any findings.
                              >
                              >Speak to you soon.
                              >
                              >Regards
                              >
                              >Jon
                              >
                              >kizzyasam <kaas79@...> wrote:
                              >My name is Kizzyann sam I am searching for my mother's (Florence
                              >Griffith) relatives.My mother was born in Bush Lot, Essequibo. All my
                              >father's genealogy records are accounted for. All i have to track my
                              >mother's side is very vage and almost non-exsistant, with names given
                              >to her from my grandmother (Margaret Griffith) who was afraid my mother
                              >would not be accepted into the family because of her skin color. My
                              >grandmother's father came to Guyana,from Barbados and settled in the
                              >pomeroon around early 1920'sor much earlier. His name was Griffith and
                              >of the malatto race. My grandmother's mother family came from India
                              >with the name...Cadeir... which the changed later to ....cadells... my
                              >spelling of these names may be a bit off. I would really like to
                              >reconect with this half of my family. If anyone has information i would
                              >really appreciate it.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >Visit Budmart.co.uk for all your Collecting needs !
                              >
                              >
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                            • Jon - Budmart.co.uk
                              Hello Jenn That is correct, it is either a person directly of one Black and one white parent or a person whose parents are also Mulattos. I have heard the term
                              Message 14 of 22 , Jun 17, 2005
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Hello Jenn
                                 
                                That is correct, it is either a person directly of one Black and one white parent or a person whose parents are also Mulattos.
                                 
                                I have heard the term in use in the Caribbean along with other similiar names, some derogatory.
                                 
                                The Term "Dougla" is in general use in Guyana and does refer to a person of mixed East Indian and African blood.
                                 
                                It derives from Bhojpuri Hindi and means "Pothound", not very complimentary but neither is being called a Mule (Mulatto).
                                 
                                Guyana is obsessed with Race, it governs Politics, general life and just about everything else in between.
                                 
                                They are more obsessed than "Massa" was when the British were in control.
                                 
                                I give credence to both sides of my Roots, i am half White and half East Indian and give equal interest to them both.
                                 
                                I don't mind being refered to as Coloured or mixed but it depends on the individual, some find some terms offensive and others not.
                                 
                                When asked what i am, i normally say Irish Guyanese or if they want to know further Eurasian/Anglo Indian although these terms although being the same often refer to persons directly from India/Asia or of Indian/Asian parentage.
                                 
                                I don't think there will ever be any proper terms to describe people of mixed Heritage, i think we will remain a curiosity for most mono-Heritaged people.
                                 
                                Regards
                                 
                                Jon


                                Jenn <jmss114@...> wrote:
                                Jon,
                                 
                                The Merriam-Webster listed the definition of "mulatto" as "a person of mixed white and black ancestry.
                                 
                                Growing up in Guyana I often heard this term as well as "dougla" for "a person of mixed Indian and black ancestry."  I have not been able to find a dictionary definition for dougla.
                                 
                                However, I always thought that Guyana was more progressive than the rest of the world since they gave recognition to both ancestries.  In the US and many other places in the world, even if you are 1/16 black, you're just black regardless of the rest of your ancestry.  Today in Guyana many "doglas" choose to be either black or Indian.  In my opinion this just helps to foster the racial problems.  Why not use a term that gives recognition to all of your ancestry? 
                                 
                                I personally do not like the terms "colored" or "mixed."  We are all colored ... some fairer, some darker ... but we all have some coloring or the other.  Mixed to me just seems derogatory ... you are of different races, but we don't care to recognize which ones ... just mixed.  I think all ancestry should be recognized and honored.
                                 
                                Just my two cents worth.
                                 
                                Jenn
                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: guyanese_genealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:guyanese_genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jon - Budmart.co.uk
                                Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 2:04 PM
                                To: guyanese_genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [guyanese_genealogy] Neville

                                Hello Neville
                                 
                                I have been experiencing some Internet problems myself yesterday and today and have had trouble getting access.
                                 
                                The term "Mulatto" derives from Spanish and means "Mule", it isn't used in England by the majority of people who aren't acquainted with the term but i don't know about it's usage in Spain.
                                 
                                I have heard it being used in the Caribbean but have also heard other terms you mentioned such as "Red man", i haven't heard of them getting together before to form any organisations.
                                 
                                Over here Mulattos are normally refered to as being "Black" or mixed race they are normally accepted here by other Black people but not always by White people.
                                 
                                I have been to the Museum a few times, i have proberly your Grandfather's picture on the wall.
                                 
                                It is something i could look into when i get some time, i will keep your details and see what i can find out.
                                 
                                I think most Guyanese wish the British stayed, not really them as a people but rather their money and the investment they made !
                                 
                                Guyana has no money for Stadiums but one is being built for free for them by the Indian Government, how things change, Guyana used to send food to India to feed the starving and now they are getting handouts from India !!
                                 
                                The Government is going into Tourism in a big way, just recently they had a big Trade and Tourism fair to encourage travel to Guyana.
                                 
                                Some of the ideals of Socialism sound good but they never work as people are never fair and only look after their own interests, even China realises Communism is kaput but won't accept it, they have one of the largest Economies in the World and are a Capitalist State in all but name (they call it a economic experiment).
                                 
                                There are always going to be some greedy persons in power who will syphon off funds into their own Bank Accounts while their people live in poverty.
                                 
                                I will see what i can find out about John Quelch when i have some free time and get back to you with any findings.
                                 
                                Speak to you soon.
                                 
                                Regards
                                 
                                Jon

                                Neville Quelch <nquelch@...> wrote:
                                Hi Jon:
                                 
                                I experienced some computer problems in the last week and could not get back to you.
                                 
                                I suppose that in England and Europe the word "mulatto" is still used.  In North America and when I grew up in British Guiana, it was never or seldom used..  Even in apartheid South Africa they preferred "Mixed" or "Coloured."  Guyanese seemed to prefer to call such a person '"A Red man."  I met some mulatto's at a function in Fredericton, New Brunswick about 15 years ago.  They were actually applying to the federal government for organizational funding. 
                                 
                                According to one of the leading members the most had problems being accepted by either Blacks or Whites.  Now it makes me wonder why I did not have any problems. 
                                 
                                My paternal grandfather was John J. Quelch.  He was a curator at the museum (his photograph hangs at the entrance).  He did tremendous work and found many native Guyanese tribes.  I don't know what else he did but the people at the museum become exuberant speaking about him.  Like I said, his trail completely vanished somewhere in the Atlantic.  My father never spoke about him and all we had is the museum.
                                 
                                like others several years ago I began thinking that Guyana should revert back to a colony because we seem to prefer being ruled by White people than by ourselves and this does not mean Guyana only.
                                 
                                You mentioned several ambitious plans to boost tourism.  In the UK you fill your stadiums every week with football and cricket.  The Guyanese population does not have the money to support a new stadium.  Who are the owners of these new facilities that are being constructed?  If it is the government then tax money will be thrown after white elephants.  Unless we are discussing services, governments should keep out of the business sector.
                                 
                                I must put in a good word for Forbes Burnham and Chiddi Jagan.  When they were flirting with socialism and socialism, it was the "In thing" to do.  All developing countries except Japan were disillusioned with capitalism and were looking for an economic system that would be fair to the population. 
                                 
                                Cuba and Venezuela had 90-95% poverty and 5-10% filthy rich.  Jagan and Burnham were trying to avoid economic policies to prevent that from happening.  Adam Smith's invisible hand is the best policy available.
                                 
                                Neville
                                "Jon - Budmart.co.uk" <budmartuk@...> wrote:
                                Hello Neville
                                 
                                Guyanese are very "Clannish" just like the Irish and others like the Jews, Greeks and Italians for example.
                                 
                                By what you have stated, i assume that you are a "Mulatto" or similiar (i do not mean any offence if you find the term offensive as i am using it in a Historical context to mean someone of mixed Heritage), Nigeria and other parts of West Africa are the main places of origin for Afro-Guyanese and there were a lot of Scots in Guyana, they mostly filled the positions of Overseer on the Plantations.
                                 
                                I have also heard that Quelch can also be Squelch, Welsh, Walsh or Welch which may still be of Scots origin but meaning a person that came from Wales.

                                I think most Guyanese proberly wish it would become a Colony again then we would be in the same situation as French Guiana, much better off !

                                There is still very much unfortunately a Class system in the U.K. and a Racial system where some get further than others because of their background or Ethnicity.

                                The English and other British peoples - the Scots and Welsh pretty much consider themselves as Patriots and don't like each other let alone anyone else, so it is quite hard to get accepted as a Outsider.

                                The British legal system is mainly the model for most Countries Worldwide as the English and Scottish Parliaments can be traced right back to the 11th and 13th Centuries respectively.

                                The Queen is still the head of State and the English Parliament is divided into the Lords and Commons, it also has the power over the Scottish, Welsh and Northern Ireland Parliaments and can veto or supercede any laws that they introduce if it wishes.

                                Guyana has all the resources to make something of itself but has never managed to use it effectively or wisely.

                                The British helped themselves to as much as they could while they were in charge and many Private Companies from Overseas have managed to make a good profit from these resources but Guyana hasn't managed to obtain anything from their own rich sources.

                                It has been Guyana's Government policies over the decades since Independence that have lead to its regression and shameful title as being "the poorest Country in the western Hemisphere".

                                Burnham's Government delved with Socialism and self-reliance cutting off trade with America and Western Europe and switching to Communist Countries and Rogue Middle Eastern States.

                                Jagan's Government originally toyed with Communism thus leading to his imprisonment by the British and the 1953 Emergency but on re-instatement in 1992 had to alter their ideas and look to America and Europe again for trade and funding.

                                Guyana did pick up a bit financially in the late 1990's as many Guyanese returned from Overseas and invested in the Country and things were on the up but they have now stopped in their tracks due to the current Security problem in the Country with widespread Banditry and Terrorism and their inability to deal with it.

                                I know that Guyana's beaches aren't up to the standard of West Indian beaches and eco-tourism is Guyana's main hope but strangely they have produced a number of artificial beaches over the years at resorts in the interior.

                                They are currently looking at turning Jonestown (morbid i know) into a tourist site as they think it will bring loads of American Tourists to Guyana !!

                                They are making a big preparation for the Cricket World Cup with the building of a new National Stadium and updating the other Grounds plus the construction of new Hotels in Georgetown including a super-Hotel complex which comprises a shopping centre and Casino.

                                They however, seem to have forgotten about the internal Crime problems which they need to get on top of before any mass Tourism to Guyana.

                                They have so much potential but it is being ruined not by Foreigners but by fellow Guyanese.

                                Regards

                                Jon


                                Neville Quelch <nquelch@...> wrote:

                                Hi Jon:
                                 
                                I understand and appreciate you Guyanese cultural link.  My family in UK are exactly the same.  Some were born in the UK and others left Guyana at a very young age.  When we get together, it is as if we knew each other  and had close relationships.  I guess it is a family thing with Guyanese.
                                 
                                My sister in the UK traced my maternal roots to Nigeria via Barbados.  My paternal roots started in Scotland however, according to another genealogy organization , the name Quelch was originally Welsh then Welsh and finally Quelch.  It would appear that somewhere along the line, welsh was used because the originator was from Wales.  Just maybe the same name transition occur ed with other enquiring members of the group.
                                 
                                In trying to understand Guyana's economic stagnation I was made to understand that the senior civil servants with ability to translate government policy into action left Guyana for the West Indies and the people who took their places know as much as me - nothing,
                                 
                                In the UK you have a King or Queen, Lords, etc.  While such a system may have worked in the past, it served as a model that was not wanted in Canada and the USA.  That system created a class society and provided me with the understanding of being "Put in one's Place."  The Canadian society, like that in the US, does not have a class system and as such, anyone can be whatever anyone wants - no limitations.  Maybe that is why the British started leaving in the Sixties.  As a matter of fact, any English and their children who have lived in Canada prior to he Nineteen-Sixties and still have not applied for immigrant status cannot become Canadians and cannot vote in any election.
                                 
                                Like every other country, we have our problems - great and small but our politicians understand that the economy of the country comes first.  When I went to Guyana in 1972, I thought that it was similarly understood.  My next visit was in 1980 and although the economic growth was slower, developing countries around the world were reeling from balance of payments due to having borrowed (to feed economic development) from commercial banks at regular commercial rates.  I went back in 1992 and could not believe that I was in the Guyana that showed such promise in 1972.
                                 
                                Since then Guyana has changed governments and now has a President that studied closed-economy economics and trying to use the theories in an open economy.  It cannot work and will not work.  As far as the riches of Guyana goes, Guyana needs foreign investment in terms of money and technology to develop its natural resources.  Additionally, a market must exist for the products and that is controlled by US and on a lessor scale, the EU and Japan.
                                 
                                Developmental economists suggested developing countries trade among themselves and be inventive to satisfy their needs rather than try to use equipment from the developed countries.  While this was an exceedingly good idea, the US (in my opinion) in ensuring the developing countries remain dependant and has formed trading blocks with most of them.  At the same time, the US, EU and Japan control what is produced, by whom and what is the selling price.
                                 
                                While Guyana can try to push tourism as an industry, North Americans look for sandy beaches in tropical countries during the long winters.  When the tides from the Amazon river turn back to the continent, Guyana is the recipient of muddy water.  Any clear water beaches would have to be found in the interior.  It is only with much TV advertisement Guyana can showcase safe photographic safaris as an effective alternative.
                                 
                                Caribbean tourism should not have been necessary, Guyana hosted the Non-Aligned League of Nations and Carifesta in 1972.  Those were events to build on.
                                 
                                Regards
                                 
                                Neville

                                "Jon - Budmart.co.uk" <budmartuk@...> wrote:
                                Hello Neville
                                 
                                I regard myself as British as i am born and raised in England but i don't regard myself as English as you pretty much have to be a "club member" to get into their "club".
                                 
                                I prefer to call myself an Irish-Guyanese or ethnically a Eurasian/Anglo-Indian as my Mother is from Belfast and my Father from Port Mourant.
                                 
                                I have a deep interest in both sides of my Family History and in both sides of my mixed Heritage.
                                 
                                I have been to Guyana a number of times and been to various places in Berbice and Demerara.
                                 
                                I may not have been born or bred there but i feel a strong link culturely.
                                 
                                Regarding the comunication problems, i remember before Jagan coming to power having to travel miles to make a phone call home, Telecommunications are a lot better now plus now Guyana is online we can get news as it happens.
                                 
                                For a little while there had been a lot of improvements, i had seen it for myself on many of my trips to Guyana but it has all seemed to have came to a halt and the Country unfortunately now seems to be regressing rather than progressing.
                                 
                                Security is a major problem at the moment with the high rise in Crime and internal Terrorism.
                                 
                                The Government is however investing a lot of money into Tourism and is hoping to highlight Guyana during the Cricket World Cup and put in onto the Caribbean Tourist map.
                                 
                                Guyana is rich in resources, it has Gold, Diamonds, Oil and Bauxite amongst other main exports but seems to be poor in how it manages its affairs.
                                 
                                I am also sure if Guyana was ever to receive a miraculous rebate or reparation from Britain it too would disappear just like George's Gold !!
                                 
                                Nobody in the Towns or Villages would see any of it, thats for certain.
                                 
                                Regards
                                 
                                Jon

                                Neville Quelch <nquelch@...> wrote:
                                Hi Jon:
                                 
                                I no longer call myself a Guyanese because I left in 1963 and worked all over Canada.  I was never able to keep up to date on Guyanese affairs  because of the obvious communication problems.  Today, I still keep out of Guyanese affairs and depend on people like you and this genealogy service for bits and pieces of information.  Any comments, as such, must be neutral  However, I saw real progress in 1972 when the company I worked for was contracted for the electrification program of the day.  I spent 5 months in Guyana watching new subdivisions, roads  and infrastructure projects in progress.  The electrification project would have permitted new industries to start and grow in the rural areas and help avoid the congestion problem that is plaguing most of the capital cities of the developing countries and especially South America.
                                 
                                Before leaving Canada to work on the project, I was called into an executive's office and told that I was going back as a Canadian and must in no way get involved in Guyanese affairs.  During my 4th month, I was approached by the main opposition party first and by the governing party second for contributions.  I informed both parties of my directives and that I could not contribute any party.  It did not take very long after for me to be summoned and told that I was needed in Canada for another project.
                                 
                                I will never know if it was arranged or a coincidence but I was needed in Canada.  I really wanted to contribute to Guyana's development in any small way that I could.  Recently, I looked at the yearly increase in GDP from 1960 to 2003.  I was surprised to learn that much development had not taken place.  If a miracle could take place where Guyana was reimbursed by the UK the money would disappear like that of the gold money of the famous composite "George Pitatoe(?)."
                                 
                                Regards
                                 
                                Neville

                                "Jon - Budmart.co.uk" <budmartuk@...> wrote:
                                Hello Neville
                                 
                                Thanks for your comments.
                                 
                                Most Guyanese can trace their History back to the time of Slavery or Indenture.
                                 
                                With the exception of the Amerindians who are the Native people of Guyana, all our Ancestors arrived in Guyana in one way or another due to the Sugar Industry.
                                 
                                Sugar and Cotton were the two main exports that kept the British Empire running and Britain very wealthy.
                                 
                                Britain is still a wealthy Nation today because of it's previous exploitation of "cheap labour" over the last 300 years or so.
                                 
                                Although it may acknowledge it built it's wealth on the backs of our Ancestors, we are very unlikely to ever see any remorse or receive any apologies in anyway.
                                 
                                Some have suggested the paying of reparations but this would bankrupt Britain as it was the main abuser of the Slavery/Indenture systems.
                                 
                                Anyway it is all part of our History and the best thing to do is to build a decent future rather than living in the past.
                                 
                                Regards
                                 
                                Jon

                                Neville Quelch <nquelch@...> wrote:
                                Hi Jon:
                                 
                                Thanks for the lesson.  It just goes to show what can be derived from the use of cheap labour in the production of economic goods.
                                 
                                Enjoying this,
                                 
                                Neville

                                "Jon - Budmart.co.uk" <budmartuk@...> wrote:
                                Hello Neville and Kizzyann
                                 
                                There are numerous ways of looking at the point.
                                 
                                Overall any one that isn't White is Black, then you have the different categories of Black - African, Indian, Mixed Heritage etc etc.
                                 
                                There are a lot of people who have always considered themselves as "White" but have Black blood in them and they aren't aware of it until it has passed down the generations to their offspring.
                                 
                                The term Mulatto is generally used in the Caribbean to describe someone who is either of mixed parentage (European/African) or of Mulatto parentage.
                                 
                                They usually tend to be light skinned and have a mixture of European and African features.
                                 
                                The terms Quadroon (a person having one-quarter African ancestry), Octoroon (a person whose ancestry is one-eighth African) and Quinteroon (a person who is one-sixteenth African; counted as White in some Countries) are also in use although less nowadays.
                                 
                                These terms originate from the Colonial days especially in Spanish Colonies where your Racial make-up could affect your status in life and your inheritance, the laws were slightly more lax in the British Colonies.
                                 
                                A lot of terms which are now deemed derogatory are still in common usage in the Caribbean where they aren't considered offensive or are considered less offensive as in other Regions.
                                 
                                Refering to the Spanish terms, there are numerous terms such as Mestizo, Cafuzo, Sambo and various other terms of other Linguistic origins which describe the different mixes of African/European, African/Amerindian, African/East Indian, African/Chinese, Amerindian/European and East Indian/European and so on.
                                 
                                I understood what you meant when you used the term Mulatto as meaning someone of mixed African and European heritage who is of a light-skinned complexion.
                                 
                                Regards
                                 
                                Jon
                                 

                                kizzyann sam <kaas79@...> wrote:
                                I'm sorry Neville i should not have placed the word race at the end of
                                Mulatto, but the word Mulatto sometimes completely describes what a person
                                would look like. My great grandfather as i was told had very pale complexion
                                and it was difficult for anyone to know he had a drop of black blood in him
                                unless that information was given to them . So by me saying Mulatto, members
                                of the group i hope have a better understanding of the person i am looking
                                for, if they were asking another individual instead of a paper trail.

                                >From: Neville Quelch <nquelch@...>
                                >Reply-To: guyanese_genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                                >To: guyanese_genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                                >Subject: Re: [guyanese_genealogy] searching
                                >Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 16:08:31 -0400 (EDT)
                                >
                                >Hello All:
                                >
                                >I have been reading all of the correspondence with great interest.  I am
                                >not searching for my family but enjoying the way you all have put energy
                                >and time in helping each other.  I have never before seen Guyanese working
                                >together in a common cause since independence.  Obviously it takes
                                >politicians to screw-up the works.  Please do not let any politicians in.
                                >
                                >I have one comment to make to Kizzyann.  Mulatto is not a race.  The
                                >Americans used a one percent rule that stated if a person had 1% Black
                                >blood then the person is Black.  By using that rule, the various shades of
                                >Black peoples have a common history.  If that history is taken away, then
                                >the people termed mulatto would be without a history or place in the world.
                                >  I certainly don't mind if some Blacks were called cocoa brown, peanut
                                >brown,  etc.  At least they would be still be included as Blacks.
                                >
                                >With respect,
                                >
                                >Neville Quelch
                                >
                                >"Jon - Budmart.co.uk" <budmartuk@...> wrote:
                                >Hello Kizzyann
                                >
                                >I will have a look and see what i can find out and get back to you in a few
                                >days with any findings.
                                >
                                >Speak to you soon.
                                >
                                >Regards
                                >
                                >Jon
                                >
                                >kizzyasam <kaas79@...> wrote:
                                >My name is Kizzyann sam I am searching for my mother's (Florence
                                >Griffith) relatives.My mother was born in Bush Lot, Essequibo. All my
                                >father's genealogy records are accounted for. All i have to track my
                                >mother's side is very vage and almost non-exsistant, with names given
                                >to her from my grandmother (Margaret Griffith) who was afraid my mother
                                >would not be accepted into the family because of her skin color. My
                                >grandmother's father came to Guyana,from Barbados and settled in the
                                >pomeroon around early 1920'sor much earlier. His name was Griffith and
                                >of the malatto race. My grandmother's mother family came from India
                                >with the name...Cadeir... which the changed later to ....cadells... my
                                >spelling of these names may be a bit off. I would really like to
                                >reconect with this half of my family. If anyone has information i would
                                >really appreciate it.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >Visit Budmart.co.uk for all your Collecting needs !
                                >
                                >
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                              • Richard B. Cheddie
                                Jon, I have been absent this past month. I have been slowly rebuilding my database after that last crash. I will be able to help others again with their
                                Message 15 of 22 , Jun 17, 2005
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                                  Message
                                  Jon,
                                   
                                  I have been absent this past month. I have been slowly rebuilding my database after that last crash. I will be able to help others again with their research. I see that you have been busy, too. Thanks.
                                   
                                   
                                  Cheddie
                                • Neville Quelch
                                  Hi Jenn: I did not mean for this to get out of hand. I was just pointing out that Mulatto is not a race. They don t have a history and were never a people.
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Jun 17, 2005
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Hi Jenn:
                                     
                                    I did not mean for this to get out of hand.  I was just pointing out that "Mulatto" is not a race.  They don't have a history and were never a people.
                                     
                                    As I stated before, an American introduced the 1% rule stating that if a person had 1% Black blood, meaning of course any Black/White American, that person was Black.  I personally like the definition even if it now encompasses other ethnic group mixtures.  The problem arose When some people with one or more percent Black blood, in fear of missing economic, social and cultural opportunities, preferred to be White.
                                     
                                    Another problem arose when (for want of a better term) light-complexioned children found that they were not accepted as either Black or White.  This occurred in Canada and the USA (I cannot speak for other countries).  The famous Mariah Carey, in a recent interview, spoke about sleeping cross-ways on a bed with others and having an identity problem.  If as a teenager a person is rejected by peers, it can be traumatic. I sympathize with these teenagers and try to understand their plight.
                                     
                                    There is always a silver lining where there were dark clouds.  These young people are now appearing in many TV commercials an recently it was said that "Brown is in."  Basically, Whites want to get a tan to look Brown and find these light-complexioned people just perfect for increasing market share..
                                     
                                    I personally do not like the term "Mulatto" and dictionaries are suppose to represent present day usage of words.  On this point, the Merriam-Webster dictionary has erred greatly.
                                     
                                    Concerning ethnicity in Guyana.  it is just a by-product of politics.  The late John Diefenbaker, former Prime Minister of Canada, said that gaining power is what politics is all about.  Racism was first used in the 1957 elections in British Guiana to gain power and it flourishes now like an ever-flowing Kaiteur Falls.  I had originally hoped that the "Dougla" people would become a majority and govern the people as one.  From what Jon said, my hopes are in vain.
                                     
                                    No disrespect meant,
                                     
                                    Neville
                                     
                                    Jenn <jmss114@...> wrote:
                                    Jon,
                                     
                                    The Merriam-Webster listed the definition of "mulatto" as "a person of mixed white and black ancestry.
                                     
                                    Growing up in Guyana I often heard this term as well as "dougla" for "a person of mixed Indian and black ancestry."  I have not been able to find a dictionary definition for dougla.
                                     
                                    However, I always thought that Guyana was more progressive than the rest of the world since they gave recognition to both ancestries.  In the US and many other places in the world, even if you are 1/16 black, you're just black regardless of the rest of your ancestry.  Today in Guyana many "doglas" choose to be either black or Indian.  In my opinion this just helps to foster the racial problems.  Why not use a term that gives recognition to all of your ancestry? 
                                     
                                    I personally do not like the terms "colored" or "mixed."  We are all colored ... some fairer, some darker ... but we all have some coloring or the other.  Mixed to me just seems derogatory ... you are of different races, but we don't care to recognize which ones ... just mixed.  I think all ancestry should be recognized and honored.
                                     
                                    Just my two cents worth.
                                     
                                    Jenn
                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: guyanese_genealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:guyanese_genealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jon - Budmart.co.uk
                                    Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 2:04 PM
                                    To: guyanese_genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: Re: [guyanese_genealogy] Neville

                                    Hello Neville
                                     
                                    I have been experiencing some Internet problems myself yesterday and today and have had trouble getting access.
                                     
                                    The term "Mulatto" derives from Spanish and means "Mule", it isn't used in England by the majority of people who aren't acquainted with the term but i don't know about it's usage in Spain.
                                     
                                    I have heard it being used in the Caribbean but have also heard other terms you mentioned such as "Red man", i haven't heard of them getting together before to form any organisations.
                                     
                                    Over here Mulattos are normally refered to as being "Black" or mixed race they are normally accepted here by other Black people but not always by White people.
                                     
                                    I have been to the Museum a few times, i have proberly your Grandfather's picture on the wall.
                                     
                                    It is something i could look into when i get some time, i will keep your details and see what i can find out.
                                     
                                    I think most Guyanese wish the British stayed, not really them as a people but rather their money and the investment they made !
                                     
                                    Guyana has no money for Stadiums but one is being built for free for them by the Indian Government, how things change, Guyana used to send food to India to feed the starving and now they are getting handouts from India !!
                                     
                                    The Government is going into Tourism in a big way, just recently they had a big Trade and Tourism fair to encourage travel to Guyana.
                                     
                                    Some of the ideals of Socialism sound good but they never work as people are never fair and only look after their own interests, even China realises Communism is kaput but won't accept it, they have one of the largest Economies in the World and are a Capitalist State in all but name (they call it a economic experiment).
                                     
                                    There are always going to be some greedy persons in power who will syphon off funds into their own Bank Accounts while their people live in poverty.
                                     
                                    I will see what i can find out about John Quelch when i have some free time and get back to you with any findings.
                                     
                                    Speak to you soon.
                                     
                                    Regards
                                     
                                    Jon

                                    Neville Quelch <nquelch@...> wrote:
                                    Hi Jon:
                                     
                                    I experienced some computer problems in the last week and could not get back to you.
                                     
                                    I suppose that in England and Europe the word "mulatto" is still used.  In North America and when I grew up in British Guiana, it was never or seldom used..  Even in apartheid South Africa they preferred "Mixed" or "Coloured."  Guyanese seemed to prefer to call such a person '"A Red man."  I met some mulatto's at a function in Fredericton, New Brunswick about 15 years ago.  They were actually applying to the federal government for organizational funding. 
                                     
                                    According to one of the leading members the most had problems being accepted by either Blacks or Whites.  Now it makes me wonder why I did not have any problems. 
                                     
                                    My paternal grandfather was John J. Quelch.  He was a curator at the museum (his photograph hangs at the entrance).  He did tremendous work and found many native Guyanese tribes.  I don't know what else he did but the people at the museum become exuberant speaking about him.  Like I said, his trail completely vanished somewhere in the Atlantic.  My father never spoke about him and all we had is the museum.
                                     
                                    like others several years ago I began thinking that Guyana should revert back to a colony because we seem to prefer being ruled by White people than by ourselves and this does not mean Guyana only.
                                     
                                    You mentioned several ambitious plans to boost tourism.  In the UK you fill your stadiums every week with football and cricket.  The Guyanese population does not have the money to support a new stadium.  Who are the owners of these new facilities that are being constructed?  If it is the government then tax money will be thrown after white elephants.  Unless we are discussing services, governments should keep out of the business sector.
                                     
                                    I must put in a good word for Forbes Burnham and Chiddi Jagan.  When they were flirting with socialism and socialism, it was the "In thing" to do.  All developing countries except Japan were disillusioned with capitalism and were looking for an economic system that would be fair to the population. 
                                     
                                    Cuba and Venezuela had 90-95% poverty and 5-10% filthy rich.  Jagan and Burnham were trying to avoid economic policies to prevent that from happening.  Adam Smith's invisible hand is the best policy available.
                                     
                                    Neville
                                    "Jon - Budmart.co.uk" <budmartuk@...> wrote:
                                    Hello Neville
                                     
                                    Guyanese are very "Clannish" just like the Irish and others like the Jews, Greeks and Italians for example.
                                     
                                    By what you have stated, i assume that you are a "Mulatto" or similiar (i do not mean any offence if you find the term offensive as i am using it in a Historical context to mean someone of mixed Heritage), Nigeria and other parts of West Africa are the main places of origin for Afro-Guyanese and there were a lot of Scots in Guyana, they mostly filled the positions of Overseer on the Plantations.
                                     
                                    I have also heard that Quelch can also be Squelch, Welsh, Walsh or Welch which may still be of Scots origin but meaning a person that came from Wales.

                                    I think most Guyanese proberly wish it would become a Colony again then we would be in the same situation as French Guiana, much better off !

                                    There is still very much unfortunately a Class system in the U.K. and a Racial system where some get further than others because of their background or Ethnicity.

                                    The English and other British peoples - the Scots and Welsh pretty much consider themselves as Patriots and don't like each other let alone anyone else, so it is quite hard to get accepted as a Outsider.

                                    The British legal system is mainly the model for most Countries Worldwide as the English and Scottish Parliaments can be traced right back to the 11th and 13th Centuries respectively.

                                    The Queen is still the head of State and the English Parliament is divided into the Lords and Commons, it also has the power over the Scottish, Welsh and Northern Ireland Parliaments and can veto or supercede any laws that they introduce if it wishes.

                                    Guyana has all the resources to make something of itself but has never managed to use it effectively or wisely.

                                    The British helped themselves to as much as they could while they were in charge and many Private Companies from Overseas have managed to make a good profit from these resources but Guyana hasn't managed to obtain anything from their own rich sources.

                                    It has been Guyana's Government policies over the decades since Independence that have lead to its regression and shameful title as being "the poorest Country in the western Hemisphere".

                                    Burnham's Government delved with Socialism and self-reliance cutting off trade with America and Western Europe and switching to Communist Countries and Rogue Middle Eastern States.

                                    Jagan's Government originally toyed with Communism thus leading to his imprisonment by the British and the 1953 Emergency but on re-instatement in 1992 had to alter their ideas and look to America and Europe again for trade and funding.

                                    Guyana did pick up a bit financially in the late 1990's as many Guyanese returned from Overseas and invested in the Country and things were on the up but they have now stopped in their tracks due to the current Security problem in the Country with widespread Banditry and Terrorism and their inability to deal with it.

                                    I know that Guyana's beaches aren't up to the standard of West Indian beaches and eco-tourism is Guyana's main hope but strangely they have produced a number of artificial beaches over the years at resorts in the interior.

                                    They are currently looking at turning Jonestown (morbid i know) into a tourist site as they think it will bring loads of American Tourists to Guyana !!

                                    They are making a big preparation for the Cricket World Cup with the building of a new National Stadium and updating the other Grounds plus the construction of new Hotels in Georgetown including a super-Hotel complex which comprises a shopping centre and Casino.

                                    They however, seem to have forgotten about the internal Crime problems which they need to get on top of before any mass Tourism to Guyana.

                                    They have so much potential but it is being ruined not by Foreigners but by fellow Guyanese.

                                    Regards

                                    Jon


                                    Neville Quelch <nquelch@...> wrote:

                                    Hi Jon:
                                     
                                    I understand and appreciate you Guyanese cultural link.  My family in UK are exactly the same.  Some were born in the UK and others left Guyana at a very young age.  When we get together, it is as if we knew each other  and had close relationships.  I guess it is a family thing with Guyanese.
                                     
                                    My sister in the UK traced my maternal roots to Nigeria via Barbados.  My paternal roots started in Scotland however, according to another genealogy organization , the name Quelch was originally Welsh then Welsh and finally Quelch.  It would appear that somewhere along the line, welsh was used because the originator was from Wales.  Just maybe the same name transition occur ed with other enquiring members of the group.
                                     
                                    In trying to understand Guyana's economic stagnation I was made to understand that the senior civil servants with ability to translate government policy into action left Guyana for the West Indies and the people who took their places know as much as me - nothing,
                                     
                                    In the UK you have a King or Queen, Lords, etc.  While such a system may have worked in the past, it served as a model that was not wanted in Canada and the USA.  That system created a class society and provided me with the understanding of being "Put in one's Place."  The Canadian society, like that in the US, does not have a class system and as such, anyone can be whatever anyone wants - no limitations.  Maybe that is why the British started leaving in the Sixties.  As a matter of fact, any English and their children who have lived in Canada prior to he Nineteen-Sixties and still have not applied for immigrant status cannot become Canadians and cannot vote in any election.
                                     
                                    Like every other country, we have our problems - great and small but our politicians understand that the economy of the country comes first.  When I went to Guyana in 1972, I thought that it was similarly understood.  My next visit was in 1980 and although the economic growth was slower, developing countries around the world were reeling from balance of payments due to having borrowed (to feed economic development) from commercial banks at regular commercial rates.  I went back in 1992 and could not believe that I was in the Guyana that showed such promise in 1972.
                                     
                                    Since then Guyana has changed governments and now has a President that studied closed-economy economics and trying to use the theories in an open economy.  It cannot work and will not work.  As far as the riches of Guyana goes, Guyana needs foreign investment in terms of money and technology to develop its natural resources.  Additionally, a market must exist for the products and that is controlled by US and on a lessor scale, the EU and Japan.
                                     
                                    Developmental economists suggested developing countries trade among themselves and be inventive to satisfy their needs rather than try to use equipment from the developed countries.  While this was an exceedingly good idea, the US (in my opinion) in ensuring the developing countries remain dependant and has formed trading blocks with most of them.  At the same time, the US, EU and Japan control what is produced, by whom and what is the selling price.
                                     
                                    While Guyana can try to push tourism as an industry, North Americans look for sandy beaches in tropical countries during the long winters.  When the tides from the Amazon river turn back to the continent, Guyana is the recipient of muddy water.  Any clear water beaches would have to be found in the interior.  It is only with much TV advertisement Guyana can showcase safe photographic safaris as an effective alternative.
                                     
                                    Caribbean tourism should not have been necessary, Guyana hosted the Non-Aligned League of Nations and Carifesta in 1972.  Those were events to build on.
                                     
                                    Regards
                                     
                                    Neville

                                    "Jon - Budmart.co.uk" <budmartuk@...> wrote:
                                    Hello Neville
                                     
                                    I regard myself as British as i am born and raised in England but i don't regard myself as English as you pretty much have to be a "club member" to get into their "club".
                                     
                                    I prefer to call myself an Irish-Guyanese or ethnically a Eurasian/Anglo-Indian as my Mother is from Belfast and my Father from Port Mourant.
                                     
                                    I have a deep interest in both sides of my Family History and in both sides of my mixed Heritage.
                                     
                                    I have been to Guyana a number of times and been to various places in Berbice and Demerara.
                                     
                                    I may not have been born or bred there but i feel a strong link culturely.
                                     
                                    Regarding the comunication problems, i remember before Jagan coming to power having to travel miles to make a phone call home, Telecommunications are a lot better now plus now Guyana is online we can get news as it happens.
                                     
                                    For a little while there had been a lot of improvements, i had seen it for myself on many of my trips to Guyana but it has all seemed to have came to a halt and the Country unfortunately now seems to be regressing rather than progressing.
                                     
                                    Security is a major problem at the moment with the high rise in Crime and internal Terrorism.
                                     
                                    The Government is however investing a lot of money into Tourism and is hoping to highlight Guyana during the Cricket World Cup and put in onto the Caribbean Tourist map.
                                     
                                    Guyana is rich in resources, it has Gold, Diamonds, Oil and Bauxite amongst other main exports but seems to be poor in how it manages its affairs.
                                     
                                    I am also sure if Guyana was ever to receive a miraculous rebate or reparation from Britain it too would disappear just like George's Gold !!
                                     
                                    Nobody in the Towns or Villages would see any of it, thats for certain.
                                     
                                    Regards
                                     
                                    Jon

                                    Neville Quelch <nquelch@...> wrote:
                                    Hi Jon:
                                     
                                    I no longer call myself a Guyanese because I left in 1963 and worked all over Canada.  I was never able to keep up to date on Guyanese affairs  because of the obvious communication problems.  Today, I still keep out of Guyanese affairs and depend on people like you and this genealogy service for bits and pieces of information.  Any comments, as such, must be neutral  However, I saw real progress in 1972 when the company I worked for was contracted for the electrification program of the day.  I spent 5 months in Guyana watching new subdivisions, roads  and infrastructure projects in progress.  The electrification project would have permitted new industries to start and grow in the rural areas and help avoid the congestion problem that is plaguing most of the capital cities of the developing countries and especially South America.
                                     
                                    Before leaving Canada to work on the project, I was called into an executive's office and told that I was going back as a Canadian and must in no way get involved in Guyanese affairs.  During my 4th month, I was approached by the main opposition party first and by the governing party second for contributions.  I informed both parties of my directives and that I could not contribute any party.  It did not take very long after for me to be summoned and told that I was needed in Canada for another project.
                                     
                                    I will never know if it was arranged or a coincidence but I was needed in Canada.  I really wanted to contribute to Guyana's development in any small way that I could.  Recently, I looked at the yearly increase in GDP from 1960 to 2003.  I was surprised to learn that much development had not taken place.  If a miracle could take place where Guyana was reimbursed by the UK the money would disappear like that of the gold money of the famous composite "George Pitatoe(?)."
                                     
                                    Regards
                                     
                                    Neville

                                    "Jon - Budmart.co.uk" <budmartuk@...> wrote:
                                    Hello Neville
                                     
                                    Thanks for your comments.
                                     
                                    Most Guyanese can trace their History back to the time of Slavery or Indenture.
                                     
                                    With the exception of the Amerindians who are the Native people of Guyana, all our Ancestors arrived in Guyana in one way or another due to the Sugar Industry.
                                     
                                    Sugar and Cotton were the two main exports that kept the British Empire running and Britain very wealthy.
                                     
                                    Britain is still a wealthy Nation today because of it's previous exploitation of "cheap labour" over the last 300 years or so.
                                     
                                    Although it may acknowledge it built it's wealth on the backs of our Ancestors, we are very unlikely to ever see any remorse or receive any apologies in anyway.
                                     
                                    Some have suggested the paying of reparations but this would bankrupt Britain as it was the main abuser of the Slavery/Indenture systems.
                                     
                                    Anyway it is all part of our History and the best thing to do is to build a decent future rather than living in the past.
                                     
                                    Regards
                                     
                                    Jon

                                    Neville Quelch <nquelch@...> wrote:
                                    Hi Jon:
                                     
                                    Thanks for the lesson.  It just goes to show what can be derived from the use of cheap labour in the production of economic goods.
                                     
                                    Enjoying this,
                                     
                                    Neville

                                    "Jon - Budmart.co.uk" <budmartuk@...> wrote:
                                    Hello Neville and Kizzyann
                                     
                                    There are numerous ways of looking at the point.
                                     
                                    Overall any one that isn't White is Black, then you have the different categories of Black - African, Indian, Mixed Heritage etc etc.
                                     
                                    There are a lot of people who have always considered themselves as "White" but have Black blood in them and they aren't aware of it until it has passed down the generations to their offspring.
                                     
                                    The term Mulatto is generally used in the Caribbean to describe someone who is either of mixed parentage (European/African) or of Mulatto parentage.
                                     
                                    They usually tend to be light skinned and have a mixture of European and African features.
                                     
                                    The terms Quadroon (a person having one-quarter African ancestry), Octoroon (a person whose ancestry is one-eighth African) and Quinteroon (a person who is one-sixteenth African; counted as White in some Countries) are also in use although less nowadays.
                                     
                                    These terms originate from the Colonial days especially in Spanish Colonies where your Racial make-up could affect your status in life and your inheritance, the laws were slightly more lax in the British Colonies.
                                     
                                    A lot of terms which are now deemed derogatory are still in common usage in the Caribbean where they aren't considered offensive or are considered less offensive as in other Regions.
                                     
                                    Refering to the Spanish terms, there are numerous terms such as Mestizo, Cafuzo, Sambo and various other terms of other Linguistic origins which describe the different mixes of African/European, African/Amerindian, African/East Indian, African/Chinese, Amerindian/European and East Indian/European and so on.
                                     
                                    I understood what you meant when you used the term Mulatto as meaning someone of mixed African and European heritage who is of a light-skinned complexion.
                                     
                                    Regards
                                     
                                    Jon
                                     

                                    kizzyann sam <kaas79@...> wrote:
                                    I'm sorry Neville i should not have placed the word race at the end of
                                    Mulatto, but the word Mulatto sometimes completely describes what a person
                                    would look like. My great grandfather as i was told had very pale complexion
                                    and it was difficult for anyone to know he had a drop of black blood in him
                                    unless that information was given to them . So by me saying Mulatto, members
                                    of the group i hope have a better understanding of the person i am looking
                                    for, if they were asking another individual instead of a paper trail.

                                    >From: Neville Quelch <nquelch@...>
                                    >Reply-To: guyanese_genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                                    >To: guyanese_genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                                    >Subject: Re: [guyanese_genealogy] searching
                                    >Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 16:08:31 -0400 (EDT)
                                    >
                                    >Hello All:
                                    >
                                    >I have been reading all of the correspondence with great interest.  I am
                                    >not searching for my family but enjoying the way you all have put energy
                                    >and time in helping each other.  I have never before seen Guyanese working
                                    >together in a common cause since independence.  Obviously it takes
                                    >politicians to screw-up the works.  Please do not let any politicians in.
                                    >
                                    >I have one comment to make to Kizzyann.  Mulatto is not a race.  The
                                    >Americans used a one percent rule that stated if a person had 1% Black
                                    >blood then the person is Black.  By using that rule, the various shades of
                                    >Black peoples have a common history.  If that history is taken away, then
                                    >the people termed mulatto would be without a history or place in the world.
                                    >  I certainly don't mind if some Blacks were called cocoa brown, peanut
                                    >brown,  etc.  At least they would be still be included as Blacks.
                                    >
                                    >With respect,
                                    >
                                    >Neville Quelch
                                    >
                                    >"Jon - Budmart.co.uk" <budmartuk@...> wrote:
                                    >Hello Kizzyann
                                    >
                                    >I will have a look and see what i can find out and get back to you in a few
                                    >days with any findings.
                                    >
                                    >Speak to you soon.
                                    >
                                    >Regards
                                    >
                                    >Jon
                                    >
                                    >kizzyasam <kaas79@...> wrote:
                                    >My name is Kizzyann sam I am searching for my mother's (Florence
                                    >Griffith) relatives.My mother was born in Bush Lot, Essequibo. All my
                                    >father's genealogy records are accounted for. All i have to track my
                                    >mother's side is very vage and almost non-exsistant, with names given
                                    >to her from my grandmother (Margaret Griffith) who was afraid my mother
                                    >would not be accepted into the family because of her skin color. My
                                    >grandmother's father came to Guyana,from Barbados and settled in the
                                    >pomeroon around early 1920'sor much earlier. His name was Griffith and
                                    >of the malatto race. My grandmother's mother family came from India
                                    >with the name...Cadeir... which the changed later to ....cadells... my
                                    >spelling of these names may be a bit off. I would really like to
                                    >reconect with this half of my family. If anyone has information i would
                                    >really appreciate it.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
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                                  • Jenn
                                    Neville, Jon, Was not trying to make it an issue ... just adding my two cents to the conversation. However, although the racial problems are currently more
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Jun 17, 2005
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                                      Message
                                      Neville, Jon,
                                       
                                      Was not trying to make it an issue ... just adding my two cents to the conversation.  However, although the racial problems are currently more evident in Guyana, I found that the terms mulatto and dougla were used more during the colonial era and prior to me leaving Guyana in 1977 than they are now.  Now everyone is either black, Indian, or red.
                                       
                                      Jenn
                                      Subject: RE: [guyanese_genealogy] Neville

                                      Hi Jenn:
                                       
                                      I did not mean for this to get out of hand.  I was just pointing out that "Mulatto" is not a race.  They don't have a history and were never a people.
                                    • Neville Quelch
                                      Hi Jen: Sorry. I left during the colonial rule in 1963. You are better informed. Neville Jenn wrote: Neville, Jon, Was not trying to
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Jun 17, 2005
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                                        Hi Jen:
                                         
                                        Sorry. 
                                         
                                        I left during the colonial rule in 1963.  You are better informed.
                                         
                                        Neville

                                        Jenn <jmss114@...> wrote:
                                        Neville, Jon,
                                         
                                        Was not trying to make it an issue ... just adding my two cents to the conversation.  However, although the racial problems are currently more evident in Guyana, I found that the terms mulatto and dougla were used more during the colonial era and prior to me leaving Guyana in 1977 than they are now.  Now everyone is either black, Indian, or red.
                                         
                                        Jenn
                                        Subject: RE: [guyanese_genealogy] Neville

                                        Hi Jenn:
                                         
                                        I did not mean for this to get out of hand.  I was just pointing out that "Mulatto" is not a race.  They don't have a history and were never a people.

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                                      • Jon - Budmart.co.uk
                                        Hello Neville and everyone I have looked into John Joseph Quelch your Grandfather for you. He was a well known Botanist/Zoologist/Geologist of his time. He
                                        Message 19 of 22 , Jun 23, 2005
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                                          Hello Neville and everyone
                                           
                                          I have looked into John Joseph Quelch your Grandfather for you.
                                           
                                          He was a well known Botanist/Zoologist/Geologist of his time.
                                           
                                          He wrote a number of books and papers including :
                                           
                                          Journey to Summit of Roraima, 1895 and
                                          Animal Life in British Guiana, 1910.
                                           
                                          He did study the Amerindian Tribes and was responsible for most of the exhibits at the Guyana and Walter Roth Museums.
                                           
                                          A lot of his exhibits are also at the American Natural History Museum.
                                           
                                          I have included a picture of your Grandfather as a attachment.
                                           
                                          Just like his trail, i haven't been able to find anymore on him but there is bound to be plenty of information on him at the National Library or at the British Library.
                                           
                                          Regards
                                           
                                          Jon

                                          Neville Quelch <nquelch@...> wrote:
                                          My paternal grandfather was John J. Quelch.  He was a curator at the museum (his photograph hangs at the entrance).  He did tremendous work and found many native Guyanese tribes.  I don't know what else he did but the people at the museum become exuberant speaking about him.  Like I said, his trail completely vanished somewhere in the Atlantic.  My father never spoke about him and all we had is the museum.
                                           


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                                        • Sancho of Nabaclis
                                          Hello everybody, I saw those books listed in the catalouge at NYPL. Neville why did you mentioned it? I am not certain whether I looked up Quelch in the Who is
                                          Message 20 of 22 , Jun 23, 2005
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                                            Hello everybody,
                                            I saw those books listed in the catalouge at NYPL. Neville why did you mentioned it? I am not certain whether I looked up Quelch in the Who is who in BG 1945-48.....

                                            "Jon - Budmart.co.uk" <budmartuk@...> wrote:
                                            Hello Neville and everyone
                                             
                                            I have looked into John Joseph Quelch your Grandfather for you.
                                             
                                            He was a well known Botanist/Zoologist/Geologist of his time.
                                             
                                            He wrote a number of books and papers including :
                                             
                                            Journey to Summit of Roraima, 1895 and
                                            Animal Life in British Guiana, 1910.
                                             
                                            He did study the Amerindian Tribes and was responsible for most of the exhibits at the Guyana and Walter Roth Museums.
                                             
                                            A lot of his exhibits are also at the American Natural History Museum.
                                             
                                            I have included a picture of your Grandfather as a attachment.
                                             
                                            Just like his trail, i haven't been able to find anymore on him but there is bound to be plenty of information on him at the National Library or at the British Library.
                                             
                                            Regards
                                             
                                            Jon

                                            Neville Quelch <nquelch@...> wrote:
                                            My paternal grandfather was John J. Quelch.  He was a curator at the museum (his photograph hangs at the entrance).  He did tremendous work and found many native Guyanese tribes.  I don't know what else he did but the people at the museum become exuberant speaking about him.  Like I said, his trail completely vanished somewhere in the Atlantic.  My father never spoke about him and all we had is the museum.
                                             


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                                          • alison roberts
                                            Thanks Jon, as great grand daughter I will cherish this photo, seems to be the same one that was moved to the Walter Roth Museum. It is good to have a copy.
                                            Message 21 of 22 , Jun 23, 2005
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                                              Thanks Jon, as great grand daughter I will cherish this photo, seems to be the same one that was moved to the Walter Roth Museum. It is good to have a copy.

                                              "Jon - Budmart.co.uk" <budmartuk@...> wrote:
                                              Hello Neville and everyone
                                               
                                              I have looked into John Joseph Quelch your Grandfather for you.
                                               
                                              He was a well known Botanist/Zoologist/Geologist of his time.
                                               
                                              He wrote a number of books and papers including :
                                               
                                              Journey to Summit of Roraima, 1895 and
                                              Animal Life in British Guiana, 1910.
                                               
                                              He did study the Amerindian Tribes and was responsible for most of the exhibits at the Guyana and Walter Roth Museums.
                                               
                                              A lot of his exhibits are also at the American Natural History Museum.
                                               
                                              I have included a picture of your Grandfather as a attachment.
                                               
                                              Just like his trail, i haven't been able to find anymore on him but there is bound to be plenty of information on him at the National Library or at the British Library.
                                               
                                              Regards
                                               
                                              Jon

                                              Neville Quelch <nquelch@...> wrote:
                                              My paternal grandfather was John J. Quelch.  He was a curator at the museum (his photograph hangs at the entrance).  He did tremendous work and found many native Guyanese tribes.  I don't know what else he did but the people at the museum become exuberant speaking about him.  Like I said, his trail completely vanished somewhere in the Atlantic.  My father never spoke about him and all we had is the museum.
                                               


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                                            • Jon - Budmart.co.uk
                                              Hello Alison I am glad to help. Your Great Grandfather was a very interesting man and done a lot of important research. I can see why staff at the Museum were
                                              Message 22 of 22 , Jun 25, 2005
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                                                Hello Alison
                                                 
                                                I am glad to help.
                                                 
                                                Your Great Grandfather was a very interesting man and done a lot of important research.
                                                 
                                                I can see why staff at the Museum were exuberant when asked about him.
                                                 
                                                He studied Plant and Animal life as well as Amerindian Tribes and wished to preserve Guyana's Geological as well as Social Heritage.
                                                 
                                                I just wished i could find more about him as i haven't been able to find what happened to him.
                                                 
                                                Maybe the answers lie somewhere in the British Library ?
                                                 
                                                Speak to you again.
                                                 
                                                Regards
                                                 
                                                Jon

                                                alison roberts <alisonroberts52013@...> wrote:
                                                Thanks Jon, as great grand daughter I will cherish this photo, seems to be the same one that was moved to the Walter Roth Museum. It is good to have a copy.

                                                "Jon - Budmart.co.uk" <budmartuk@...> wrote:
                                                Hello Neville and everyone
                                                 
                                                I have looked into John Joseph Quelch your Grandfather for you.
                                                 
                                                He was a well known Botanist/Zoologist/Geologist of his time.
                                                 
                                                He wrote a number of books and papers including :
                                                 
                                                Journey to Summit of Roraima, 1895 and
                                                Animal Life in British Guiana, 1910.
                                                 
                                                He did study the Amerindian Tribes and was responsible for most of the exhibits at the Guyana and Walter Roth Museums.
                                                 
                                                A lot of his exhibits are also at the American Natural History Museum.
                                                 
                                                I have included a picture of your Grandfather as a attachment.
                                                 
                                                Just like his trail, i haven't been able to find anymore on him but there is bound to be plenty of information on him at the National Library or at the British Library.
                                                 
                                                Regards
                                                 
                                                Jon

                                                Neville Quelch <nquelch@...> wrote:
                                                My paternal grandfather was John J. Quelch.  He was a curator at the museum (his photograph hangs at the entrance).  He did tremendous work and found many native Guyanese tribes.  I don't know what else he did but the people at the museum become exuberant speaking about him.  Like I said, his trail completely vanished somewhere in the Atlantic.  My father never spoke about him and all we had is the museum.
                                                 


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