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RE: [guntotingliberals] Extremist, or extremely portrayed?

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  • George Johnson
    Extreme efficiency just leads to extreme specificity. Race guns are a great example. To make it as fast and accurate as possible, you hang so much crap on
    Message 1 of 30 , Sep 25, 2006
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      Extreme efficiency just leads to extreme specificity. Race guns are a great
      example. To make it as fast and accurate as possible, you hang so much
      crap on it, that it is useless as a defensive weapon (except in very
      specific conditions).
      There are probably all sorts of things you can do to make cars more
      efficient...but in all conditions? You can probably get a Suburban to get
      40 miles to the gallon. But make it climb, hills, carry loads, at all
      altitudes, temperatures and being driven by retards who can't drive or care
      for the car properly.
      The challenge of an auto designer is to designa car that will work with
      reasonable milage when driven by people that are missing digits because they
      tried to trim their hedges with a lawn mower.

      "An Elephant is a mouse built to government specifications"
      -Robert Anson Heinlein
    • Michelle M
      In May my partner and I bought a 2006 Toyota Prius hybrid. We are getting 50mpg and each tank gets better. The hatchback also has a good payload. Five adults.
      Message 2 of 30 , Sep 25, 2006
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        In May my partner and I bought a 2006 Toyota Prius hybrid.
        We are getting 50mpg and each tank gets better. The hatchback
        also has a good payload. Five adults. The other day we brought
        a load of bricks home from a freecycler.

        It's an amazying car like no other.
        Michelle

        George Johnson <el_jefe99@...> wrote: Extreme efficiency just leads to extreme specificity. Race guns are a great
        example. To make it as fast and accurate as possible, you hang so much
        crap on it, that it is useless as a defensive weapon (except in very
        specific conditions).
        There are probably all sorts of things you can do to make cars more
        efficient...but in all conditions? You can probably get a Suburban to get
        40 miles to the gallon. But make it climb, hills, carry loads, at all
        altitudes, temperatures and being driven by retards who can't drive or care
        for the car properly.
        The challenge of an auto designer is to designa car that will work with
        reasonable milage when driven by people that are missing digits because they
        tried to trim their hedges with a lawn mower.

        "An Elephant is a mouse built to government specifications"
        -Robert Anson Heinlein





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      • Roger Metzger
        I quite agree. That was the only time I put 40 psi in the tires, for example. As all-round transportation, the Barracuda was a good choice, the biggest
        Message 3 of 30 , Sep 26, 2006
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          I quite agree. That was the only time I put 40 psi in
          the tires, for example. As all-round transportation,
          the Barracuda was a good choice, the biggest drawback
          being the lack of rear doors. I bought it partly
          because of the great rear quarter visibility. And
          that in turn as a sort of protest against the dismal
          visibility on some of the other cars on my short list
          that year (’66)—especially the Toronado and the Saab.
          Every product seems to have tradeoffs, as true of
          guns as anything else. I shoot mostly airguns. I
          like the relative cost and noise level. But they
          can’t produce the spectacular result of shooting a pop
          can full of water with a hollowpoint LR.
          By the way, a camel is a horse designed by a
          committee.



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        • Roger Metzger
          We moved to Utah in 1982 and soon thereafter began exploring this Pretty, Great State. We’ve been to hundreds of places in Utah on camping and picnic trips,
          Message 4 of 30 , Sep 26, 2006
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            We moved to Utah in 1982 and soon thereafter began
            exploring this Pretty, Great State. We’ve been to
            hundreds of places in Utah on camping and picnic
            trips, many of them to places far from any paved
            road—shooting as a hobby is a natural fit for our main
            hobby because at many of those picnic and camp sites,
            there is no danger (if you take proper precautions) of
            hurting anyone and little danger of disturbing anyone.
            Because of our predilection for exploring the
            backcountry, we don’t look at cars much anymore. We
            stay on existing roads but many of them are of such a
            nature that a good 4WD with skidplates is an
            appropriate precaution against damage to the vehicle
            and against getting stuck (which I define as those
            times when you need to resort to a shovel to get home
            again).
            Anyway, thanks for the tip. I’ll pass it on to people
            who can afford two vehicles or who are young enough
            and strong enough to drive a car to a trailhead and
            backpack into a Wilderness area.
            Are the Toyota sales people in your area interested at
            all in what the customer wants? Here, they seem to
            think that anyone looking at Toyotas has already
            decided to buy no other brand—and they treat you
            accordingly.



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          • Roger Metzger
            Please anyone who has used one, tell me what you liked and disliked about the Ruger 22/45 Mark III pistol. The specs liook like this: Catalog Number
            Message 5 of 30 , Sep 26, 2006
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              Please anyone who has used one, tell me what you liked
              and disliked about the Ruger 22/45 Mark III pistol.
              The specs liook like this: Catalog Number P45GCMKIII;
              Model Bull Bbl.; Caliber .22LR; Mag. Cap. 10; Finish
              Blued; Rear Sight Fixed; Front Sight Fixed; Barrel
              Length 4-1/2"; Over Length 8-1/2"; Aprox. Weight 33
              oz.; Price (2005) $305.
              Another question: My wife and I both like 19th
              century anything. I've never used a single action
              revolver. Every one I've seen looks like the loading
              port is on the wrong side for a right-handed shooter.
              (I guess the exception would be the 1870 Wmith &
              Wesson Schofield.) If a majority of you concur, maybe
              Sally will be delighted, since she is a south-paw.
              But if a right-handed person wants to use his right
              hand to insert the ammo, does he have to change the
              gun to his left hand to load it?


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            • Richard Silverman
              To answer your question about loading a single action--the loading port is on the right so the right handed shooter can keep holding the handgun in his right
              Message 6 of 30 , Sep 26, 2006
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                To answer your question about loading a single action--the loading port
                is on the right so the right handed shooter can keep holding the handgun
                in his right hand, then rotate it a quarter turn counter clockwise and
                drop the barrel (so the gun is horizontal rather than in vertical and
                pointing down) and use his right thumb to open the small loading gate.
                Then he will use his left hand to take bullets from his gun belt and
                place them into the cylinder. In this way there is no need to switch
                hands which if under stress could cause one to drop the pistol.
                Hope this helps. By the way, unloading the spent cartridges is also
                done holding the gun in the right hand.
                Cheers
                Rick Silverman

                -----Original Message-----
                From: guntotingliberals@yahoogroups.com
                [mailto:guntotingliberals@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Roger Metzger
                Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 7:43 AM
                To: guntotingliberals@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [guntotingliberals] good cars was Extremist, or extremely
                portrayed?

                Please anyone who has used one, tell me what you liked
                and disliked about the Ruger 22/45 Mark III pistol.
                The specs liook like this: Catalog Number P45GCMKIII;
                Model Bull Bbl.; Caliber .22LR; Mag. Cap. 10; Finish
                Blued; Rear Sight Fixed; Front Sight Fixed; Barrel
                Length 4-1/2"; Over Length 8-1/2"; Aprox. Weight 33
                oz.; Price (2005) $305.
                Another question: My wife and I both like 19th
                century anything. I've never used a single action
                revolver. Every one I've seen looks like the loading
                port is on the wrong side for a right-handed shooter.
                (I guess the exception would be the 1870 Wmith &
                Wesson Schofield.) If a majority of you concur, maybe
                Sally will be delighted, since she is a south-paw.
                But if a right-handed person wants to use his right
                hand to insert the ammo, does he have to change the
                gun to his left hand to load it?


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              • Roy
                I m a lefty too, but SAA s work pretty much the same with either hand-- the strong hand holds it and works the hammer and trigger, and the weak-hand does all
                Message 7 of 30 , Sep 26, 2006
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                  I'm a lefty too, but SAA's work pretty much the same with either hand--
                  the strong hand holds it and works the hammer and trigger, and the
                  weak-hand does all the ammo loading and unloading. If you really want
                  to use your right hand to put ammo in, you'll need to hold it in your
                  left hand, no matter which side the loading port is on (and in that
                  case, swapping hands is the way to go). Rarely are SAA's loaded under
                  any sort of time pressure however.

                  Roger Metzger wrote:
                  > Please anyone who has used one, tell me what you liked
                  > and disliked about the Ruger 22/45 Mark III pistol.
                  > The specs liook like this: Catalog Number P45GCMKIII;
                  > Model Bull Bbl.; Caliber .22LR; Mag. Cap. 10; Finish
                  > Blued; Rear Sight Fixed; Front Sight Fixed; Barrel
                  > Length 4-1/2"; Over Length 8-1/2"; Aprox. Weight 33
                  > oz.; Price (2005) $305.
                  > Another question: My wife and I both like 19th
                  > century anything. I've never used a single action
                  > revolver. Every one I've seen looks like the loading
                  > port is on the wrong side for a right-handed shooter.
                  > (I guess the exception would be the 1870 Wmith &
                  > Wesson Schofield.) If a majority of you concur, maybe
                  > Sally will be delighted, since she is a south-paw.
                  > But if a right-handed person wants to use his right
                  > hand to insert the ammo, does he have to change the
                  > gun to his left hand to load it?
                  >
                  >
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                  > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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                  >
                • rochefort46@mac.com
                  Another tip while loading a wheel gun-drop in the first round, then skip one, and load the rest of the empty cylinders. Then cock the hammer and lower it. This
                  Message 8 of 30 , Sep 27, 2006
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                    Another tip while loading a wheel gun-drop in the first round, then skip one, and load the rest of the empty cylinders. Then cock the hammer and lower it. This will leave the firing pin on an empty chamber every time.

                    Eric Sowers
                    Sent from my BlackBerry wireless handheld.

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Richard Silverman <rsilverman@...>
                    Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 08:01:49
                    To:guntotingliberals@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: RE: [guntotingliberals] good cars was Extremist,
                    or extremely portrayed?

                    To answer your question about loading a single action--the loading port
                    is on the right so the right handed shooter can keep holding the handgun
                    in his right hand, then rotate it a quarter turn counter clockwise and
                    drop the barrel (so the gun is horizontal rather than in vertical and
                    pointing down) and use his right thumb to open the small loading gate.
                    Then he will use his left hand to take bullets from his gun belt and
                    place them into the cylinder. In this way there is no need to switch
                    hands which if under stress could cause one to drop the pistol.
                    Hope this helps. By the way, unloading the spent cartridges is also
                    done holding the gun in the right hand.
                    Cheers
                    Rick Silverman

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: guntotingliberals@: <mailto:guntotingliberals%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
                    [mailto:guntotingliberals@: <mailto:guntotingliberals%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Roger Metzger
                    Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 7:43 AM
                    To: guntotingliberals@: <mailto:guntotingliberals%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [guntotingliberals] good cars was Extremist, or extremely
                    portrayed?

                    Please anyone who has used one, tell me what you liked
                    and disliked about the Ruger 22/45 Mark III pistol.
                    The specs liook like this: Catalog Number P45GCMKIII;
                    Model Bull Bbl.; Caliber .22LR; Mag. Cap. 10; Finish
                    Blued; Rear Sight Fixed; Front Sight Fixed; Barrel
                    Length 4-1/2"; Over Length 8-1/2"; Aprox. Weight 33
                    oz.; Price (2005) $305.
                    Another question: My wife and I both like 19th
                    century anything. I've never used a single action
                    revolver. Every one I've seen looks like the loading
                    port is on the wrong side for a right-handed shooter.
                    (I guess the exception would be the 1870 Wmith &
                    Wesson Schofield.) If a majority of you concur, maybe
                    Sally will be delighted, since she is a south-paw.
                    But if a right-handed person wants to use his right
                    hand to insert the ammo, does he have to change the
                    gun to his left hand to load it?

                    __________________________________________________
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                  • George Johnson
                    In reference to the ergonomics of the Colt SAA design...I was always told that the designer was left handed as explanation to why the SAA was designed with the
                    Message 9 of 30 , Sep 29, 2006
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                      In reference to the ergonomics of the Colt SAA design...I was always told
                      that the designer was left handed as explanation to why the SAA was designed
                      with the loading port on the right side of the weapon.

                      As far as NRA membership. I am a member of the NRA working on the Easy Pay
                      Life Membership plan. The NRA is the most powerful member of the gun lobby
                      and I will support them. I dislike their partisanship at the moment. But
                      it is up to us (liberals) to convince them that there is a dividend in not
                      being partisan. The NRA are pragmatic in that they back those who will back
                      them with the most reliability. No one likes the political nature of gun
                      ownership today. Time and again I hear old timers decrying how so much of
                      the conversation at the range and the gunshop is about legislation instead
                      of shooting itself. Perhaps when we have no need to fear for our rights
                      attention will turn solely to the hobby we love.

                      When I donate to CFC every year half my money goes to the NRA-ILA and the
                      other half to NPR. Seems a good split to me.
                    • Jason Iversen
                      If the NRA ditched Wayne La Pierre, I d join it, but they won t since he is basically the guy who ru(i)ns it. They do endorse Dems, it s just that too many
                      Message 10 of 30 , Oct 2, 2006
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                        If the NRA ditched Wayne La Pierre, I'd join it, but they won't since he is basically the guy who ru(i)ns it.

                        They do endorse Dems, it's just that too many Dems don't seek or wish endorsement.

                        The NRA recently endorces Ted Strickland, the US Rep from Ohio, who is running for governor against the Republican Blackwell.

                        What I'd like to see is a two-issue organization: One the promoted the Second Amendment AND Democrats.

                        the NRA would endorse Belzebub if he was pro-gun.

                        The organization I am proposing would endorse canidates only if they were pro-Gun and Democratic.

                        Now, how do we setup such an organization?

                        Jason





                        George Johnson <el_jefe99@...> wrote: In reference to the ergonomics of the Colt SAA design...I was always told
                        that the designer was left handed as explanation to why the SAA was designed
                        with the loading port on the right side of the weapon.

                        As far as NRA membership. I am a member of the NRA working on the Easy Pay
                        Life Membership plan. The NRA is the most powerful member of the gun lobby
                        and I will support them. I dislike their partisanship at the moment. But
                        it is up to us (liberals) to convince them that there is a dividend in not
                        being partisan. The NRA are pragmatic in that they back those who will back
                        them with the most reliability. No one likes the political nature of gun
                        ownership today. Time and again I hear old timers decrying how so much of
                        the conversation at the range and the gunshop is about legislation instead
                        of shooting itself. Perhaps when we have no need to fear for our rights
                        attention will turn solely to the hobby we love.

                        When I donate to CFC every year half my money goes to the NRA-ILA and the
                        other half to NPR. Seems a good split to me.






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                      • Xela
                        2nd Amendment Democrats? It s already out there: http://www.a2dems.net/ They were born out of the gungeon group in the Democratic Underground online community.
                        Message 11 of 30 , Oct 5, 2006
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                          2nd Amendment Democrats?

                          It's already out there:
                          http://www.a2dems.net/

                          They were born out of the gungeon group in the Democratic Underground online community.

                          And right now they're only taking baby steps, but who knows what more can come of it...

                          Xela




                          --- On Mon 10/02, Jason Iversen < echtermetzger76@... > wrote:
                          From: Jason Iversen [mailto: echtermetzger76@...]
                          To: guntotingliberals@yahoogroups.com
                          Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 10:22:04 -0700 (PDT)
                          Subject: Re: [guntotingliberals] good cars was Extremist, or extremely portrayed?


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                          <p>If the NRA ditched Wayne La Pierre, I'd join it, but they won't since he is basically the guy who ru(i)ns it.<br>
                          <br>
                          They do endorse Dems, it's just that too many Dems don't seek or wish endorsement. <br>
                          <br>
                          The NRA recently endorces Ted Strickland, the US Rep from Ohio, who is running for governor against the Republican Blackwell.<br>
                          <br>
                          What I'd like to see is a two-issue organization: One the promoted the Second Amendment AND Democrats.<br>
                          <br>
                          the NRA would endorse Belzebub if he was pro-gun. <br>
                          <br>
                          The organization I am proposing would endorse canidates only if they were pro-Gun and Democratic.<br>
                          <br>
                          Now, how do we setup such an organization?<br>
                          <br>
                          Jason<br>
                          <br>
                          George Johnson <<a href="mailto:el_jefe99%40hotmail.com">el_jefe99@hotmail.<wbr>com</a>> wrote: In reference to the ergonomics of the Colt SAA design...I was always told <br>
                          that the designer was left handed as explanation to why the SAA was designed <br>
                          with the loading port on the right side of the weapon.<br>
                          <br>
                          As far as NRA membership. I am a member of the NRA working on the Easy Pay <br>
                          Life Membership plan. The NRA is the most powerful member of the gun lobby <br>
                          and I will support them. I dislike their partisanship at the moment. But <br>
                          it is up to us (liberals) to convince them that there is a dividend in not <br>
                          being partisan. The NRA are pragmatic in that they back those who will back <br>
                          them with the most reliability. No one likes the political nature of gun <br>
                          ownership today. Time and again I hear old timers decrying how so much of <br>
                          the conversation at the range and the gunshop is about legislation instead <br>
                          of shooting itself. Perhaps when we have no need to fear for our rights <br>
                          attention will turn solely to the hobby we love.<br>
                          <br>
                          When I donate to CFC every year half my money goes to the NRA-ILA and the <br>
                          other half to NPR. Seems a good split to me.<br>
                          <br>
                          <br>
                          <br>
                          <br>
                          <br>
                          <br>
                          ------------<wbr>---------<wbr>---------<wbr>---<br>
                          How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger�s low PC-to-Phone call rates.<br>
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                        • George Johnson
                          From Jason: the NRA would endorse Belzebub if he was pro-gun. Jason; If you are ever going to get enough democrats to vote pro-gun for you, they better think
                          Message 12 of 30 , Oct 5, 2006
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                            From Jason:

                            the NRA would endorse Belzebub if he was pro-gun.


                            Jason;

                            If you are ever going to get enough democrats to vote pro-gun for you, they
                            better think you will endorse belzebub if he were pro-gun. To be honest I
                            will support about anyone who is pro-gun. Every generation gets a little
                            more open minded...its almost inevitable. It may not be as fast as I would
                            like but it will happen. But once my gun rights are gone they are never,
                            ever coming back. I really, really do want to vote progressive, but they
                            are not making it easy. It isnt just guns, look at all the
                            anti-self-defense laws in Britain.

                            George
                          • George Johnson
                            Thanks for the link Xela. They appear to have a start. Pretty much a one trick pony on the AWB agenda. No mention of CCW or .50 Caliber rifles for instance.
                            Message 13 of 30 , Oct 5, 2006
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                              Thanks for the link Xela. They appear to have a start. Pretty much a one
                              trick pony on the AWB agenda. No mention of CCW or .50 Caliber rifles for
                              instance. I hope they develop further.
                            • Michelle M
                              George Johnson wrote:That is frightening. Obviously your ox hasn t been gored yet. Look at the shape of the world because we voted for
                              Message 14 of 30 , Oct 6, 2006
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                                George Johnson <el_jefe99@...> wrote:That is frightening. Obviously your ox hasn't been gored yet.
                                Look at the shape of the world because we voted for the pro gun Bush.
                                That was a blunder of huge proportion.

                                Jason;

                                If you are ever going to get enough democrats to vote pro-gun for you, they
                                better think you will endorse belzebub if he were pro-gun. To be honest I
                                will support about anyone who is pro-gun.
                                George






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                              • Michelle M
                                Leave it to the internet to screw up the attributions. This is the way it should be attributed: Michelle M wrote: That is frightening.
                                Message 15 of 30 , Oct 6, 2006
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                                  Leave it to the internet to screw up the attributions.
                                  This is the way it should be attributed:

                                  Michelle M <Safoocat@...> wrote:

                                  That is frightening. Obviously your ox hasn't been gored yet.
                                  Look at the shape of the world because we voted for the pro gun Bush.
                                  That was a blunder of huge proportion.


                                  George Johnson wrote:
                                  Jason;

                                  If you are ever going to get enough democrats to vote pro-gun for you, they
                                  better think you will endorse belzebub if he were pro-gun. To be honest I
                                  will support about anyone who is pro-gun.
                                  George






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                                • Roger Metzger
                                  “But once my gun rights are gone they are never, ever coming back…”..George Your gun rights will never be “gone” because they are inalienable and
                                  Message 16 of 30 , Oct 6, 2006
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                                    “But once my gun rights are gone they are never,
                                    ever coming back…”..George
                                    Your gun rights will never be “gone” because they are
                                    inalienable and God-given. It is the duty of
                                    government to protect your rights, however, and
                                    whether that protection is provided is the subject we
                                    need to be addressing. I believe that the Founding
                                    Fathers expected that government would someday fail to
                                    protect our inalienable rights and they hoped that
                                    Americans would realize that such failure is evidence
                                    that any government that fails to protect the rights
                                    of its citizens is not a legitimate government. Many
                                    governments in this world are not legitimate.
                                    Legitimate government derives its power from the
                                    consent of the governed. The government Iraq, for
                                    example, was not legitimate. Overthrow of that
                                    government was justified IF the purpose was to allow
                                    (notice, I didn’t say impose) a legitimate government
                                    to be established. Have you written to your
                                    congressman (yes, I have) to inquire, complain, or
                                    make suggestions about failure of our government or
                                    that of present-day Iraq to protect the inalienable
                                    right of Iraqis with regard owning and carrying arms?
                                    As surely as we were endowed by our Creator with those
                                    rights, every other human on the planet has those same
                                    rights. If there is a way to prove that we shouldn’t
                                    be involved in Iraq, it is that the right to own and
                                    carry arms is not being protected there as it should
                                    be. I don’t know as much about protection of other of
                                    the inalienable rights of Iraqis, but it almost
                                    inevitably follows that if that right is not
                                    protected, other rights are not being properly
                                    protected either.
                                    Please join me in promptly sending a protest to any
                                    government officer or elected representative who
                                    refers to our right to own and carry arms as a “second
                                    amendment right”. Even if that person is trying to
                                    protect your right to own and carry arms, the wrong
                                    impression is being given. The right to do so was not
                                    created by the second amendment. And it will continue
                                    to exist if (God forbid) our government should someday
                                    complete the process of removing what little of that
                                    protection is still provided by laws of the nation and
                                    its several states.



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                                  • Jason Iversen
                                    It isn t a question simply endorsing. We might all vote for Democrats, but the idea I am suggesting is one that identifies and encourages pro-gun Dems to
                                    Message 17 of 30 , Oct 7, 2006
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                                      It isn't a question simply endorsing.

                                      We might all vote for Democrats, but the idea I am suggesting is one that identifies and encourages pro-gun Dems to support by sending them financial contributions.

                                      I will continue to vote Democrat, but if they want my money, I will only support them if they are pro-2A.

                                      When the races are so close these days, even a small contribution/effort could have a difference.

                                      Jason




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