Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [GTh] GTh 48

Expand Messages
  • George Duffy
    I came to my conclusions slowly, Bob, but the more time I spend with these sayings, the more they seem to open up to a non-dualist interpretation. I have to
    Message 1 of 13 , Apr 6 9:35 PM
    • 0 Attachment
      I came to my conclusions slowly, Bob, but the more time I spend with these sayings, the more they seem to open up to a non-dualist interpretation.  I have to say, too, that I think there is more coherance in this text than there is in any of the NT gospels, which seem so worked over that clarity about what Jesus really believed seems impossible.

      Regards,

      George Duffy

      On Wed, Apr 6, 2011 at 2:51 PM, Bob Schacht <bobschacht@...> wrote:


      At 01:19 PM 4/6/2011, George Duffy wrote:
      I look at something like GTh 22:4-7 and I wonder how a dualist could possibly write or utter that.  A non-dualist looks at the world of opposites and separation and all the edges, between this phenomena and that phenomena, dissolve in his mind.  Another way of understanding this (although one can't really understand it, only experience it) is that his mental focus is no longer on the differences between things, personalities, bodies, but on the love and peace he feels when he stops clinging in his mind to physical limits or identities of any kind. 

      Another way of understanding this is to give up the notion that GThomas has a single point of view, or overall coherence.
      There probably had to be some kind of inclusion criteria so that they knew what sayings to include and which alleged sayings to exclude. But these inclusion criteria don't need to imply any philosophical coherence on any subject whatever.

      Bob Schacht
      Northern Arizona University




    • George Duffy
      I sometimes think, Mike, that either the author of Thomas was a non-dualist or completely deranged. I m inclined to think the former is true. But his
      Message 2 of 13 , Apr 6 9:43 PM
      • 0 Attachment
        I sometimes think, Mike, that either the author of Thomas was a non-dualist or completely deranged.  I'm inclined to think the former is true.  But his metaphors are certainly amazing and challenging.

        Regards,

        George Duffy

        On Wed, Apr 6, 2011 at 9:17 PM, M.W. Grondin <mwgrondin@...> wrote:


        Sorry, George, but aside from the heavy use of metaphor in GTh, I can't say that 
        I agree with much of anything else you wrote. The dualisms that I see in Thomas
        seem to me more often than not to be prescriptive - i.e., to indicate to the audience
        what they should believe and/or do in order to get through this lifetime spiritually alive,
        so as to be prepared for the hereafter. According to the general interpretation you suggest,
        it isn't possible for a person (or their soul) to spiritually "die". But there are places in GTh
        that give every appearance of suggesting exactly that, and I'm inclined to consider that to be
        the most plausible interpretative context for a significant number of Thomas sayings.
         
        Mike Grondin



      • timster132@aol.com
        I m beginning to believe that the text of Thomas s Gospel is the best interpreter of Thomas Gospel. With the oneness theme that runs through GThom ( one ,
        Message 3 of 13 , Apr 7 6:00 PM
        • 0 Attachment
          I'm beginning to believe that the text of Thomas's Gospel is the best interpreter of Thomas' Gospel. With the "oneness" theme that runs through GThom ("one", "alone", "two into one", "single one", "single"), I feel it must be one of the interpretative keys that is present in the text for the text. It is not as prevelent as the Genesis key is in GThom, but don't you think there is enough to consider it so?
           
          Tim Staker
          Chaplain
          IU Health
          Indianapolis
           

              Posted by: "George Duffy" 4egroeg2@... george97330
              Date: Wed Apr 6, 2011 9:35 pm ((PDT))

          << I came to my conclusions slowly, Bob, but the more time I spend with these
          sayings, the more they seem to open up to a non-dualist interpretation.  I
          have to say, too, that I think there is more coherance in this text than
          there is in any of the NT gospels, which seem so worked over that clarity
          about what Jesus really believed seems impossible.

          Regards,

          George Duffy >>
        • George Duffy
          Do I think there are enough interpretive keys in Thomas of the two into one variety? Possibly, but it s damn hard slogging through them. As for the NT
          Message 4 of 13 , Apr 8 1:01 AM
          • 0 Attachment
            Do I think there are enough interpretive keys in Thomas of the "two into one" variety?  Possibly, but it's damn hard slogging through them.  As for the NT keys, they're there, but watered down, explained away, patched together pointlessly, dumned down and downright contradicted.  Is it any wonder that Christians have made such a muddle of things.

            Regards,

            George Duffy

            On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 6:00 PM, <timster132@...> wrote:


            I'm beginning to believe that the text of Thomas's Gospel is the best interpreter of Thomas' Gospel. With the "oneness" theme that runs through GThom ("one", "alone", "two into one", "single one", "single"), I feel it must be one of the interpretative keys that is present in the text for the text. It is not as prevelent as the Genesis key is in GThom, but don't you think there is enough to consider it so?
             
            Tim Staker
            Chaplain
            IU Health
            Indianapolis
             





          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.