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Incipit & Logion 1

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  • Michael Grondin
    I have a rather elegant (if I do say so myself) answer to the question of whether the Prologue to Thomas was a later addition to the text. I think it s quite
    Message 1 of 2 , Sep 22, 2010
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      I have a rather elegant (if I do say so myself) answer to the
      question of whether the Prologue to Thomas was a later addition
      to the text. I think it's quite possible not that the whole prologue
      was added, but that part of it was. Take out the part about Thomas
      writing down the words, and you're left with this:

      > These are the obscure words that (the) Living Jesus spoke,
      > and he said "Whoever discovers the interpretation of
      > these words won't taste Death."

      No longer is the 'he' of 'and he said' ambiguous between Jesus
      and Thomas. Furthermore, ISTM that the above is a more natural
      prologue than the disjointed verbiage resulting from the inclusion
      of 'and Thomas wrote them down'. So I would propose that this
      was the original prologue of the text and that the name of Thomas
      as author was a later insertion. Which means that what we call
      'logion 1' was intended to be considered part of the prologue
      and not a separate saying.

      Mike
    • Richard Hubbard
      Hi Mike- Elegant? Sure, I ll grant that and throw in creative as well. But on the other hand, since we are being creative and are considering that the prologue
      Message 2 of 2 , Sep 23, 2010
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        Hi Mike-

        Elegant? Sure, I'll grant that and throw in creative as well. But on the
        other hand, since we are being creative and are considering that the
        prologue might be a composite, why not this:

        [1] These are the secret sayings that the living Jesus spoke.

        [2] And he said, "Whoever discovers the interpretation of these sayings
        will not taste death."

        [3] Jesus' twin brother wrote them down.

        In this scenario, [1] is the "original incipit"; [2] is simply another
        "saying" attributed to Jesus that was inserted at the beginning of the
        collection at some point prior to the composition of the Coptic MS and
        [3] was someone's effort to lend "apostolic authority" to the
        collection. At some point [3] was appended to [1] and [2] again remained
        an independent saying.

        I see no need to ignore the part about who "recorded" the saying.
        Indeed, ISTM that establishing credibility for the collection would have
        been a prominent concern for the curator of the collection(s).

        Rick




        |-----Original Message-----
        |From: gthomas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:gthomas@yahoogroups.com]
        |Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 5:43 PM
        |To: Richard Hubbard; gthomas@yahoogroups.com
        |Subject: {Disarmed} [GTh] Incipit & Logion 1
        |Importance: Low
        |
        |
        |
        |
        |I have a rather elegant (if I do say so myself) answer to the question
        of whether the
        |Prologue to Thomas was a later addition to the text. I think it's quite
        possible not that
        |the whole prologue was added, but that part of it was. Take out the
        part about
        |Thomas writing down the words, and you're left with this:
        |
        |> These are the obscure words that (the) Living Jesus spoke, and he
        said
        |> "Whoever discovers the interpretation of these words won't taste
        |> Death."
        |
        |No longer is the 'he' of 'and he said' ambiguous between Jesus and
        Thomas.
        |Furthermore, ISTM that the above is a more natural prologue than the
        disjointed
        |verbiage resulting from the inclusion of 'and Thomas wrote them down'.
        So I would
        |propose that this was the original prologue of the text and that the
        name of Thomas
        |as author was a later insertion. Which means that what we call 'logion
        1' was intended
        |to be considered part of the prologue and not a separate saying.
        |
        |Mike
        |
        |
        |
        |
        |
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