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Re: [GTh] Coptic Keyboarding

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  • Michael Grondin
    ... I ve tested this, Rick, and I can t duplicate your result. My Excel- sorts yielded correct results. I agree that sortability of the Coptic letters is a big
    Message 1 of 21 , Aug 31, 2010
      > ... yields one big surprise: when using that keyboard selection
      > with Unicode, Coptic words will sort alphabetically
      (except
      > that ti and janjia seem to be in reverse order for some
      reason).

      I've tested this, Rick, and I can't duplicate your result. My Excel-
      sorts yielded correct results. I agree that sortability of the Coptic
      letters is a big benefit of using Unicode. Where this came into play
      in my own work is in my lexicon. Since I had used a legacy font,
      the system couldn't sort the Coptic words correctly. To get around
      this, I had to add a column of numbers and hand-number each word
      sequentially, then sort on that number instead of the word itself. So
      in the cost-benefit analysis of Unicode, this is a major benefit.
       
      On another subject entirely, I can now tell you the basic difference
      between the Mastronarde/Logos and Askeland keyboards. It's pretty
      interesting, I think. As one can see from looking at the Coptic block
      of Unicode, and the seven Coptic letters (6 Sahidic, 1 Bohairic) in the
      Greek block, each of these 31 letters has two glyphs - a smaller one
      and a larger one. The Mastronarde/Logos keyboard uses all of them,
      the shift key used to type the larger glyph of each pair. However, this
      isn't really necessary, as far as I can tell, since it's only the size of the
      glyphs of each pair that differs, not their configuration. In addition, since
      Mastronarde/Logos has used up all the shifted alpha keys, it needs to
      do something funky with the leftover letters. What it does is use the
      ctrl and alt keys in conjunction with an alpha key. But this in turn, as
      you've noted, causes some potential problems, to say nothing of
      introducing some new hand-movements into the typing process.
       
      The Askeland keyboard takes a different approach. It ignores the
      large Coptic glyphs and uses only the small ones (or maybe it's
      the other way round, I'm not sure), thus freeing up the shifted alpha
      keys to represent the extra letters. Indeed, the positioning of the
      extra letters is very intuitive - right where you think they ought to be
      (phi and fai on the same key, e.g.). No need for ctrl+alt, no new keying
      motions introduced into the typing process. I have to say that it looks
      like the better keyboard to me at the moment.
       
      Cheers,
      Mike
    • Rick Hubbard
      Hi Mike- It s not easy being me sometimes. ... [||] ... yielded ... [||] I spent way too much time fiddling with this issue last night (Read: I m going to work
      Message 2 of 21 , Sep 1, 2010
        Hi Mike-

        It's not easy being me sometimes.
        I wrote:
        ||>........Coptic words will sort alphabetically (except that ti and
        ||> janjia seem to be in reverse order for some reason).
        [||]
        You replied:
        ||
        ||I've tested this, Rick, and I can't duplicate your result. My Excel- sorts
        yielded
        ||correct results.
        [||]
        I spent way too much time fiddling with this issue last night (Read: I'm
        going to work today with very little sleep). After trying everything I could
        think of (re-entering the key strokes, saving to different files and so
        forth), I still had the same sorting problems I described. I've finally
        reached the conclusion that there is a glitch in the new version of Excel
        2010. How, you may ask, did I determine that? Well, as I said it is not easy
        being me: I took another computer I had here that I was going to install
        Ubuntu onto, did a clean install of Windows XP, then installed MS Office
        2003 (with Excel 2003). After I got it up and running I loaded the file I
        had been sorting in Excel 2010 (in the old xls file format) and LO! The sort
        was correct. Go figure.

        In the midst of all this I also installed the Askeland keyboard so I could
        get a first hand idea of the difference between it and Mastronarde's. There
        is much to be commended in Askeland's utility, the most significant of which
        is NOT needing to go through all the hoops of entering the 5 Egyptian
        glyphs. On the other hand I really do like Mastronarde's method of doing
        superlinears (shift plus the letter). All in all, I guess if I had to choose
        between the two I'd go with Askeland just to avoid all the ctrl+alt nonsense
        (BTW, there are some glyphs in Mastronarde's that require shift+ctrl+alt+
        another key. I think that could result in hospitalization if done too
        frequently).

        Rick Hubbard
      • Michael Grondin
        ... Apologies to Rick and other readers for what I said in my previous note about the function of the shift key in the Mastronarde/Logos keyboard. Rick is
        Message 3 of 21 , Sep 1, 2010
          Rick wrote:
          > There is much to be commended in Askeland's utility, the most
          significant
          > of which is NOT needing to go through all the hoops of entering
          the 5 Egyptian
          > glyphs. On the other hand I really do like Mastronarde's
          method of doing
          > superlinears (shift plus the letter).
           
          Apologies to Rick and other readers for what I said in my previous note
          about the function of the shift key in the Mastronarde/Logos keyboard.
          Rick is correct that a shifted alpha types the letter with an overstroke,
          and I entirely agree that that's a very nice feature. It is also present in
          the two legacy fonts I used on my site: Coptic, and Bernhard's NHC2.
          The way the Askeland keyboard handles overstrokes is with shift-a.
          One types the letter to be overstroked, then types shift-a. Not as quick
          and easy as the Mastronarde/Logos keyboard, but not too bad.
           
          Now on to the matter of Unicode fonts. Aside from the Coptic letters,
          I'm unhappy with the general raggedy look of the fonts I've seen so far,
          so I'm trying to find (a free) one that I can love (:-) Unfortunately, as I've
          mentioned before, not all Unicode fonts have the Coptic block. I wasted
          some time last night downloading a few that didn't. (I think the ones that
          don't are older ones.) But in mucking around, I was able to find a site
          that groups Unicode fonts according to which blocks of the standard
           
          The Windows Unicode fonts that contain the Coptic block are listed as:
          ALPHABETUM Unicode, Analecta, Code2000, Free Serif, MPH 2B Damase,
          New Athena Unicode, Quivira, TITUS Cyberbit Basic
           
          I don't know how old this list is (Antinoou isn't listed because it's too new;
          not sure why Arial Unicode MS isn't listed), but I'll be trying to find and
          download the ones I don't already have, hoping for something better
          than what I've seen so far.
           
          Mike G.
        • Richard Hubbard
          Hi Mike- Thanks for the info on the alternative Unicode fonts. I downloaded some of them to see what they look like. The two I think look best are Analecta and
          Message 4 of 21 , Sep 1, 2010
            Hi Mike-

            Thanks for the info on the alternative Unicode fonts. I downloaded some
            of them to see what they look like. The two I think look best are
            Analecta and Titus. Both have some general appearance similarities to
            Coptic and NHC fonts. I'll be curious to see which (if any of these)
            meet your high esthetic standards :-)

            Also, much to my complete surprise I tried using the Arial Unicode MS
            font today and would you believe that out of 38,000 code points there
            are none for Coptic?

            Which (sort of) leads to another item of interest. As you know I have a
            rather large-ish database of Coptic vocabulary all in legacy fonts. I
            wonder what will be involved in converting this data to Unicode? I know
            there are some font converters out there for Greek legacy fonts: I tried
            an on-line one today and was really pleased with it. I pasted in about
            10,000 words from my GNT database (all in sgreek legacy font) and it
            made the change in just a few minutes, I imported the text in back into
            the data base and, like the Coptic Unicode, it sorts exactly the way it
            is supposed to (meaning no more convoluted programming to create
            artificial sort orders for THIS guy).

            BTW, I hope we are not boring everybody with this current topic. My
            apologies if we are

            Rick Hubbard



            |
            |Apologies to Rick and other readers for what I said in my previous note
            about the
            |function of the shift key in the Mastronarde/Logos keyboard.
            |Rick is correct that a shifted alpha types the letter with an
            overstroke, and I entirely
            |agree that that's a very nice feature. It is also present in the two
            legacy fonts I used
            |on my site: Coptic, and Bernhard's NHC2.
            |The way the Askeland keyboard handles overstrokes is with shift-a.
            |One types the letter to be overstroked, then types shift-a. Not as
            quick and easy as
            |the Mastronarde/Logos keyboard, but not too bad.
            |
            |Now on to the matter of Unicode fonts. Aside from the Coptic letters,
            I'm unhappy
            |with the general raggedy look of the fonts I've seen so far, so I'm
            trying to find (a
            |free) one that I can love (:-) Unfortunately, as I've mentioned before,
            not all Unicode
            |fonts have the Coptic block. I wasted some time last night downloading
            a few that
            |didn't. (I think the ones that don't are older ones.) But in mucking
            around, I was able
            |to find a site that groups Unicode fonts according to which blocks of
            the standard
            |they contain: [ http://www.alanwood.net/unicode/fontsbyrange.html
            |]http://www.alanwood.net/unicode/fontsbyrange.html
            |
            |The Windows Unicode fonts that contain the Coptic block are listed as:
            |ALPHABETUM Unicode, Analecta, Code2000, Free Serif, MPH 2B Damase, New
            |Athena Unicode, Quivira, TITUS Cyberbit Basic
            |
            |I don't know how old this list is (Antinoou isn't listed because it's
            too new; not sure
            |why Arial Unicode MS isn't listed), but I'll be trying to find and
            download the ones I
            |don't already have, hoping for something better than what I've seen so
            far.
            |
            |Mike G.
            |
            |
            |
          • Michael Grondin
            Alas, there s no end to my blundering. But at least I try to correct all mistakes. The shifted-alpha keys on the Logos keyboard don t do the same thing (viz.,
            Message 5 of 21 , Sep 1, 2010
              Alas, there's no end to my blundering. But at least I try to correct
              all mistakes. The shifted-alpha keys on the Logos keyboard don't
              do the same thing (viz., overstrike) as the shifted-alpha keys on
              the Mastronarde keyboard. So the two aren't the same after all.
              Perhaps Mastronarde used the MS Keyboard Layout Creator
              to alter the Logos keyboard. In any case, MSKLC was mentioned
              to me by Christian Askeland as the tool he used to create his
              keyboard, and I have now downloaded it (free) from:

              http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/goglobal/bb964665.aspx

              If I can get some time to do so, I hope to create a Coptic Unicode
              keyboard that uses the CS standard in its assignment of keys.
              (There's more than one CS font, BTW, but they all use the CS standard,
              so the keying is the same for any CS font.) I think that this will be a
              nice addition to the Coptic keyboards we've been discussing, assuming
              I can figure out how to do it. (I'm also assuming that no one else has
              yet done this. I haven't seen it in my searches, but I better check it out
              more thoroughly first.) What I'm thinking is that such a keyboard might
              (since it uses numeric keys for the extra letters) be able to combine
              the virtues of the Mastronarde and Askeland keyboards.

              Mike G.
            • Richard Hubbard
              Hey Mike- Check this out: [ http://www.kbdedit.com Looks like a pretty full-featured keyboard creator to me. Rick ... all mistakes. The ... overstrike) ...
              Message 6 of 21 , Sep 1, 2010
                Hey Mike-

                Check this out:

                [ http://www.kbdedit.com

                Looks like a pretty full-featured keyboard creator to me.

                Rick


                |-----Original Message-----
                |From: gthomas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:gthomas@yahoogroups.com]
                |Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 3:11 PM
                |To: Richard Hubbard; gthomas@yahoogroups.com
                |Subject: {Disarmed} Re: [GTh] Coptic Keyboarding
                |Importance: Low
                |
                |
                |
                |
                |Alas, there's no end to my blundering. But at least I try to correct
                all mistakes. The
                |shifted-alpha keys on the Logos keyboard don't do the same thing (viz.,
                overstrike)
                |as the shifted-alpha keys on the Mastronarde keyboard. So the two
                aren't the same
                |after all.
                |Perhaps Mastronarde used the MS Keyboard Layout Creator to alter the
                Logos
                |keyboard. In any case, MSKLC was mentioned to me by Christian Askeland
                as the
                |tool he used to create his keyboard, and I have now downloaded it
                (free) from:
                |
                |[ http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/goglobal/bb964665.aspx
                |]http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/goglobal/bb964665.aspx
                |
                |If I can get some time to do so, I hope to create a Coptic Unicode
                keyboard that uses
                |the CS standard in its assignment of keys.
                |(There's more than one CS font, BTW, but they all use the CS standard,
                so the
                |keying is the same for any CS font.) I think that this will be a nice
                addition to the
                |Coptic keyboards we've been discussing, assuming I can figure out how
                to do it. (I'm
                |also assuming that no one else has yet done this. I haven't seen it in
                my searches,
                |but I better check it out more thoroughly first.) What I'm thinking is
                that such a
                |keyboard might (since it uses numeric keys for the extra letters) be
                able to combine
                |the virtues of the Mastronarde and Askeland keyboards.
                |
                |Mike G.
                |
                |
                |
                |
                |
              • Richard Hubbard
                Hi Mike- One more thing I m curious about. Layton (somewhere) has a list of the glyphs that **never** have their own superlinear, so having the shift
                Message 7 of 21 , Sep 1, 2010
                  Hi Mike-

                  One more thing I'm curious about. Layton (somewhere) has a list of the
                  glyphs that **never** have their own superlinear, so having the shift
                  superlinear function would not be necessary for all letters- that would
                  free up some keys, right? Or am I missing something here?




                  |-----Original Message-----
                  |From: gthomas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:gthomas@yahoogroups.com]
                  |Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 3:11 PM
                  |To: Richard Hubbard; gthomas@yahoogroups.com
                  |Subject: {Disarmed} Re: [GTh] Coptic Keyboarding
                  |Importance: Low
                  |
                  |
                  |
                  |
                  |Alas, there's no end to my blundering. But at least I try to correct
                  all mistakes. The
                  |shifted-alpha keys on the Logos keyboard don't do the same thing (viz.,
                  overstrike)
                  |as the shifted-alpha keys on the Mastronarde keyboard. So the two
                  aren't the same
                  |after all.
                  |Perhaps Mastronarde used the MS Keyboard Layout Creator to alter the
                  Logos
                  |keyboard. In any case, MSKLC was mentioned to me by Christian Askeland
                  as the
                  |tool he used to create his keyboard, and I have now downloaded it
                  (free) from:
                  |
                  |[ http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/goglobal/bb964665.aspx
                  |]http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/goglobal/bb964665.aspx
                  |
                  |If I can get some time to do so, I hope to create a Coptic Unicode
                  keyboard that uses
                  |the CS standard in its assignment of keys.
                  |(There's more than one CS font, BTW, but they all use the CS standard,
                  so the
                  |keying is the same for any CS font.) I think that this will be a nice
                  addition to the
                  |Coptic keyboards we've been discussing, assuming I can figure out how
                  to do it. (I'm
                  |also assuming that no one else has yet done this. I haven't seen it in
                  my searches,
                  |but I better check it out more thoroughly first.) What I'm thinking is
                  that such a
                  |keyboard might (since it uses numeric keys for the extra letters) be
                  able to combine
                  |the virtues of the Mastronarde and Askeland keyboards.
                  |
                  |Mike G.
                  |
                  |
                  |
                  |
                  |
                • Rick Hubbard
                  Hi Mike: ... keyboard that ... the ... addition to the ... do it. ... in my ... thinking is ... letters) be ... [||] If I m not mistaken Mike, all the CS fonts
                  Message 8 of 21 , Sep 1, 2010
                    Hi Mike:

                    Your wrote:
                    ||
                    ||If I can get some time to do so, I hope to create a Coptic Unicode
                    keyboard that
                    ||uses the CS standard in its assignment of keys.
                    ||(There's more than one CS font, BTW, but they all use the CS standard, so
                    the
                    ||keying is the same for any CS font.) I think that this will be a nice
                    addition to the
                    ||Coptic keyboards we've been discussing, assuming I can figure out how to
                    do it.
                    ||(I'm also assuming that no one else has yet done this. I haven't seen it
                    in my
                    ||searches, but I better check it out more thoroughly first.) What I'm
                    thinking is
                    ||that such a keyboard might (since it uses numeric keys for the extra
                    letters) be
                    ||able to combine the virtues of the Mastronarde and Askeland keyboards.
                    [||]

                    If I'm not mistaken Mike, all the CS fonts are legacy, non-Unicode. Maybe I
                    missed something though, or maybe you want to just bag this whole Unicode
                    thing.

                    Rick
                  • Judy Redman
                    Sorry to bound into this without reading the full thread but I am absolutely frantically busy at the moment. I have been typing Coptic using Unicode fonts more
                    Message 9 of 21 , Sep 1, 2010

                      Sorry to bound into this without reading the full thread but I am absolutely frantically busy at the moment. I have been typing Coptic using Unicode fonts more or less ever since I started doing my Masters on GosThom (six years?). I use the Logos Coptic keyboard. I’ve blogged about it and you might find the info here http://judyredman.wordpress.com/2010/05/22/typing-coptic-2/ useful.

                       

                      Regards

                       

                      Judy

                       

                      --

                      Judy Redman
                      PhD Candidate, School of Humanities
                      University of New England
                      Armidale 2351 Australia
                      ph:  +61 2 6773 3401
                      mob: 0437 044 579
                      web: 
                       http://judyredman.wordpress.com/
                      email: 
                       jredman2@...
                       

                       

                      From: gthomas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:gthomas@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rick Hubbard
                      Sent: Thursday, 2 September 2010 8:11 AM
                      To: gthomas@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: [GTh] Coptic Keyboarding

                       

                       

                      Hi Mike:

                      Your wrote:
                      ||
                      ||If I can get some time to do so, I hope to create a Coptic Unicode
                      keyboard that
                      ||uses the CS standard in its assignment of keys.
                      ||(There's more than one CS font, BTW, but they all use the CS standard, so
                      the
                      ||keying is the same for any CS font.) I think that this will be a nice
                      addition to the
                      ||Coptic keyboards we've been discussing, assuming I can figure out how to
                      do it.
                      ||(I'm also assuming that no one else has yet done this. I haven't seen it
                      in my
                      ||searches, but I better check it out more thoroughly first.) What I'm
                      thinking is
                      ||that such a keyboard might (since it uses numeric keys for the extra
                      letters) be
                      ||able to combine the virtues of the Mastronarde and Askeland keyboards.
                      [||]

                      If I'm not mistaken Mike, all the CS fonts are legacy, non-Unicode. Maybe I
                      missed something though, or maybe you want to just bag this whole Unicode
                      thing.

                      Rick

                    • Michael Grondin
                      ... No, it s not that. Although the CS fonts themselves are legacy fonts, they all adhere to the Coptic Fonts Standard for mapping the Coptic letters onto a
                      Message 10 of 21 , Sep 1, 2010
                        Rick wrote:
                        > If I'm not mistaken Mike, all the CS fonts are legacy,
                        non-Unicode.
                        > Maybe I missed something though, or maybe you want to just
                        bag
                        > this whole Unicode thing.

                        No, it's not that. Although the CS fonts themselves are legacy fonts,
                        they all adhere to the Coptic Fonts Standard for mapping the Coptic
                        letters onto a QWERTY keyboard. There's no reason why this same
                        mapping can't be done onto a Coptic Unicode keyboard, for use with
                        a Unicode font. This would enable those who were familiar with the
                        specific keying required for a CS font (ti as ']', e.g.) to type exactly the
                        same way when using a Unicode font. The advantage for us non-CS
                        users is that the Coptic Fonts Standard (CFS) uses non-alpha keyboard
                        keys for some letters ('[', ']', e.g.) thus (by increasing the number of
                        basic keys used from 26 to 31) making it possible to avoid both (1)
                        putting two different Coptic letters on some of the keys (Askeland)
                        and (2) using special keys for some letters (Mastronarde).

                        I have, however, somewhat cooled to this idea as I've looked more into
                        the Coptic Fonts Standard. Much of the reason for that is that I had
                        hoped to use the shifted-alpha keys as Mastronarde does, namely as
                        overstroked versions of the same letters assigned to the unshifted alpha
                        keys. But I see that the CFS uses the shifted-alpha keys for larger
                        versions of the same letters, while the over-stroke is on the '=' key. This
                        would prevent my proposed keyboard from being fully CFS-compliant.

                        I've uploaded the character-mapping specs for CFS here:
                        http://www.gospel-thomas.net/coptic_font_standard.pdf

                        ... which came in the "Download for Windows" file from here:
                        http://www.copticchurch.net/coptic_fonts/

                        Mike
                      • Michael Grondin
                        ... Well, I guess I would say yes and no . True, there s some letters that don t normally get their own superlinear stroke, but yet may need to be overlined
                        Message 11 of 21 , Sep 1, 2010
                          Rick wrote:
                          > One more thing I'm curious about. Layton (somewhere) has a list of
                          > the glyphs that **never** have their own superlinear, so having the
                          shift
                          > superlinear function would not be necessary for all letters- that
                          would
                          > free up some keys, right? Or am I missing something
                          here?

                          Well, I guess I would say 'yes and no'. True, there's some letters that
                          don't normally get their own superlinear stroke, but yet may need to
                          be overlined on occasion. One example is Greek numbers (which
                          the Copts used, as you know, and which were, of course, composed
                          of overlined letters). Another is nomina sacra. Less obviously, there's
                          those strange "names" associated with body parts in the Apocryphon
                          of John, where the whole lengthy "name" is overlined.
                           
                          Still, most of the letters are rarely overlined, so the idea makes
                          sense to me. I assume you're thinking of the possibility of freeing
                          up some upper-case keys on the Mastronarde keyboard so that
                          the ctrl-alt function could be eliminated?
                           
                          Mike
                        • Michael Grondin
                          ... There s a lot to digest there, and I ll be reading it over more carefully, but a quick scan indicates that Judy isn t using the Logos keyboard per se.
                          Message 12 of 21 , Sep 2, 2010
                            Judy wrote:
                            > Sorry to bound into this without reading the full thread but I am
                            > absolutely frantically busy at the moment. I have been typing Coptic
                            > using Unicode fonts more or less ever since I started doing my
                            > Masters on GosThom (six years?). I use the Logos Coptic keyboard.
                            > I've blogged about it and you might find the info here
                            > http://judyredman.wordpress.com/2010/05/22/typing-coptic-2/ useful.

                            There's a lot to digest there, and I'll be reading it over more carefully,
                            but a quick scan indicates that Judy isn't using the Logos keyboard per
                            se. She's using a version of it, modified by her son, using MSKLC* to
                            eliminate those same four pesky ctrl-alt letters that show up on the
                            Mastronarde keyboard. They were interchanged with the (apparently
                            unnecessary) letters at shift-T, shift-F, shift-H and shift-J. In talking
                            about this, however, Judy and her correspondents refer to 'Alt-Gr',
                            which is evidently the same as the two-key combo we've been calling
                            'Alt-Ctrl'. OK, but what does 'Gr' stand for? That's what I'd like to know,
                            mates. And is it the same on British keyboards as Down Under?

                            Mike G.
                            *Microsoft Keyboard Layout Creator
                          • Rick Hubbard
                            ... [||] Based on my experience with multiple key combinations it **should** stand for Grrrrr Rick
                            Message 13 of 21 , Sep 2, 2010
                              Mike asked:
                              ||<snip>. OK, but what does 'Gr'
                              ||stand for? That's what I'd like to know, mates.
                              [||]

                              Based on my experience with multiple key combinations it **should** stand
                              for "Grrrrr"

                              Rick
                            • Rick Hubbard
                              Hi Mike- I found the list of letters not appearing with a superlinear in Layton s Coptic on 20 Lessons (p3). ⲁ, ⲇ, ⲉ, ⲍ, ⲏ, ⲑ, ⲓ, ⲟ, ⲩ, ⲫ,
                              Message 14 of 21 , Sep 2, 2010

                                Hi Mike-

                                 

                                I found the list of letters not appearing with a superlinear in Layton's Coptic on 20 Lessons (p3).

                                ⲁ, ⲇ, ⲉ, ⲍ, ⲏ, ⲑ, ⲓ, ⲟ, ⲩ, ⲫ, ⲭ,  ⲱ never appear with their own superlinear, according to him. Now, as you point out,  that does not mean that they are never part of entire bound forms that have a joining overstrokes (a different thing, grammatically) and which can be handled separately by inserting the overstroke between the characters as in with shift+a in the Askeland KB so that they appear as a single line. But then again, if you use this keyboard, freeing up keys doesn’t really make much difference in the long run.

                                 

                                Rick

                                 

                                 

                                ||-----Original Message-----

                                ||From: gthomas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:gthomas@yahoogroups.com] On

                                ||Behalf Of Michael Grondin

                                ||Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 2:10 AM

                                ||To: gthomas@yahoogroups.com

                                ||Subject: Re: [GTh] Coptic Keyboarding

                                ||

                                ||

                                ||

                                ||Rick wrote:

                                ||> One more thing I'm curious about. Layton (somewhere) has a list of the

                                ||> glyphs that **never** have their own superlinear, so having the shift

                                ||> superlinear function would not be necessary for all letters- that

                                ||> would free up some keys, right? Or am I missing something here?

                                ||

                                ||Well, I guess I would say 'yes and no'. True, there's some letters that don't

                                ||normally get their own superlinear stroke, but yet may need to be overlined on

                                ||occasion. One example is Greek numbers (which the Copts used, as you know,

                                ||and which were, of course, composed of overlined letters). Another is nomina

                                ||sacra. Less obviously, there's those strange "names" associated with body parts

                                ||in the Apocryphon of John, where the whole lengthy "name" is overlined.

                                ||

                                ||Still, most of the letters are rarely overlined, so the idea makes sense to me. I

                                ||assume you're thinking of the possibility of freeing up some upper-case keys on

                                ||the Mastronarde keyboard so that the ctrl-alt function could be eliminated?

                                ||

                                ||Mike

                                ||

                                ||

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