- ... I m unable to confirm that eis means into , Tim. Both Lambdin and Crum indicate that eis is a participle meaning behold, lo, here is , and that it sMessage 1 of 5 , Aug 23, 2010View SourceTimster wrote:
> ... it looks like this word in Coptic comes from combining "eis=into"I'm unable to confirm that 'eis' means 'into', Tim. Both Lambdin and Crum
> with "xht=mind/heart", that is, "bring into one's mind or into one's
> heart" which would infer the idea of something to ponder, rather than
> getting attention by looking at something. I also noticed that it is not
> the same as the other Coptic words for "look" (nau, qwyl).
indicate that 'eis' is a participle meaning 'behold, lo, here is', and that
it's combined with a noun such as '2hhte' (which does seem to be a form
of '2ht'). The combination would thus be literally something like "behold
mind!", which would have to be taken as an idiom that doesn't make much
literal sense. (There's a lot of those in English.)
As to the suitability of the translation 'look!', I think there's something
to be said for it. Like the expression 'look here', it sometimes
functions in company with a non-verbal gesture, but sometimes as a
stand-alone verbal attention-getter ("Look here, you're quite wrong
about that, old chap," e.g.) That same dual functionality seems to
underlie 'eis 2hhte'. In Th113, e.g., it seems to be an external pointer,
but in Th9, it must be an attention-getter (as in Mk 4:3, the analogue
of Th9, where the corresponding Greek word is translated 'listen!').
Mt. Clemens, MI
- Mike, Thanks for your reply. Very helpful. As far as EIC goes, I thought perhaps it could be a loan word from Greek, but that is hard to tell as the GreekMessage 2 of 5 , Aug 24, 2010View SourceMike,
Thanks for your reply. Very helpful.
As far as "EIC" goes, I thought perhaps it could be a loan word from
Greek, but that is hard to tell as the Greek and Coptic get so mixed up
sometimes! But if as a stand alone word it means "behold", then I would
concur with what you cite from Crum and Lambdin.
In English I use "look" a lot, since I can be very visually oriented.
But I've learned from the newer educational models that not everyone is
visually inclined, and that others are aural and/or tactile oriented in
their learning styles. So, I've learned to try to use "listen" or
"feels like" in place of "look" sometimes.
In this vein, I appreciate how you chose "listen" as the equivelency of
"eis-2hhte" :) One can "behold" with one's "mind" very well by using
the ears, I believe.
I have lots of other questions on Coptic/Greek Thomas that I'd like to
bring to the list here, if these type of questions are appropriate here,
and time permits.
- To: GThos In Response To: Tim On: Behold From: Bruce TIM: . . .the Coptic word “behold” (eis-xhhte) . . .is found in the Gospel of Thomas in logioi 3, 9,Message 3 of 5 , Aug 24, 2010View SourceTo: GThosIn Response To: TimOn: BeholdFrom: BruceTIM: . . .the Coptic word “behold” (eis-xhhte) . . .is found in the Gospel of Thomas in logioi 3, 9, 10, 113, 114. I've notice it is often translated "look".BRUCE: Rick Hubbard's concordance sv LOOK gives a different set of references. Taking the above numbers as exhaustive for the Coptic word in question, what interests me is their distribution: the first segment of GThos plus the very end. It sometimes happens that later people add "framing" elements to the beginning and/or end of a previous text, to give information about its supposed author, or to supplement it in some other way. The bookend distribution invites consideration of whether such a process is happening here.I don't get a constant meaning for these 5 "look" passages. Valantasis (modified): If your leaders say to you, Look, the [Kingdom] is in the sky . . . Jesus said, Look, the sower went out . . . Jesus said, I have cast fire upon the world, and look, I'm guarding it until it blazes. It will not come by watching for it. It will not be said, Look here! or Look there! Jesus said, Look, I will guide her to make her male, so that she too may become a living spirit [like] you males.-------3 = 113, a command to look at something physically present.10 = 114, abstractly regarding a present or future action of Jesus.9 = the standard Gospel "behold," used to make a rhetorical shift in introducing a parable, and this in fact, this is a Synoptic parable. The meaning is roughly, "Picture this."In Chinese popular narratives, which are oral in origin, phrases like "ni kan" (you look) occur regularly. They are an invitation to the audience to imagine the following scene especially closely. It has been suggested that these storytellings were accompanied by an actual picture scroll at which the teller would point. I think this not very likely (it would not work for a large audience, or a teahouse clientele), and take it very much in the sense of Jesus's parable-introducing idiom, calling not on the hearer's faculty of propositional assent, but on their skills of visualization.Be that as it may, I seem to see that there is some support here for a head-and-tail connection proposal in GThos. The strongest point is that 3 = 113 are basically the same passage. Has anyone given this word some thought, and would they care to share their results?BruceE Bruce Brooks
Warring States ProjectUniversity of Massachusetts at Amherst
- ... My site can help with this. http://www.gospel-thomas.net/splitv.htm ... where the Greek words are colored-coded. Unfortunately, I see that I haven t (yet)Message 4 of 5 , Aug 25, 2010View SourceHi Timster, you wrote:
> As far as "EIC" goes, I thought perhaps it could be a loan word fromMy site can help with this. http://www.gospel-thomas.net/splitv.htm
> Greek, but that is hard to tell as the Greek and Coptic get so mixed up
... where the Greek words are colored-coded. Unfortunately,
I see that I haven't (yet) done that with the lexicon,
which is maybe where you got your list of occurrences?
> I appreciate how you chose "listen" as the equivelency of "eis-2hhte"Well, I didn't actually propose 'listen' as a general equivalent. In the
> One can "behold" with one's "mind" very well by using the ears, I
one saying that has a Markan analogue, it seems to work, but elsewhere
probably not. It occurred to me later that maybe 'hark!' might work in all
cases, but then I looked it up and my OAD says 'hark' means 'listen'.
(Though 'hark back' apparently means 'remember' inter alia!)
> I have lots of other questions on Coptic/Greek Thomas that I'd like toThey are. And welcome, too.
> bring to the list here, if these type of questions are appropriate here