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Re: [GTh] behold

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  • Michael Grondin
    ... I m unable to confirm that eis means into , Tim. Both Lambdin and Crum indicate that eis is a participle meaning behold, lo, here is , and that it s
    Message 1 of 5 , Aug 23, 2010
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      Timster wrote:

      > ... it looks like this word in Coptic comes from combining "eis=into"
      > with "xht=mind/heart", that is, "bring into one's mind or into one's
      > heart" which would infer the idea of something to ponder, rather than
      > getting attention by looking at something. I also noticed that it is not
      > the same as the other Coptic words for "look" (nau, qwyl).

      I'm unable to confirm that 'eis' means 'into', Tim. Both Lambdin and Crum
      indicate that 'eis' is a participle meaning 'behold, lo, here is', and that
      it's combined with a noun such as '2hhte' (which does seem to be a form
      of '2ht'). The combination would thus be literally something like "behold
      mind!", which would have to be taken as an idiom that doesn't make much
      literal sense. (There's a lot of those in English.)

      As to the suitability of the translation 'look!', I think there's something
      to be said for it. Like the expression 'look here', it sometimes
      functions in company with a non-verbal gesture, but sometimes as a
      stand-alone verbal attention-getter ("Look here, you're quite wrong
      about that, old chap," e.g.) That same dual functionality seems to
      underlie 'eis 2hhte'. In Th113, e.g., it seems to be an external pointer,
      but in Th9, it must be an attention-getter (as in Mk 4:3, the analogue
      of Th9, where the corresponding Greek word is translated 'listen!').

      Cheers,
      Mike Grondin
      Mt. Clemens, MI
    • chaptim45
      Mike, Thanks for your reply. Very helpful. As far as EIC goes, I thought perhaps it could be a loan word from Greek, but that is hard to tell as the Greek
      Message 2 of 5 , Aug 24, 2010
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        Mike,

        Thanks for your reply. Very helpful.

        As far as "EIC" goes, I thought perhaps it could be a loan word from
        Greek, but that is hard to tell as the Greek and Coptic get so mixed up
        sometimes! But if as a stand alone word it means "behold", then I would
        concur with what you cite from Crum and Lambdin.

        In English I use "look" a lot, since I can be very visually oriented.
        But I've learned from the newer educational models that not everyone is
        visually inclined, and that others are aural and/or tactile oriented in
        their learning styles. So, I've learned to try to use "listen" or
        "feels like" in place of "look" sometimes.

        In this vein, I appreciate how you chose "listen" as the equivelency of
        "eis-2hhte" :) One can "behold" with one's "mind" very well by using
        the ears, I believe.

        I have lots of other questions on Coptic/Greek Thomas that I'd like to
        bring to the list here, if these type of questions are appropriate here,
        and time permits.

        Thanks again.

        Timster
      • E Bruce Brooks
        To: GThos In Response To: Tim On: Behold From: Bruce TIM: . . .the Coptic word “behold” (eis-xhhte) . . .is found in the Gospel of Thomas in logioi 3, 9,
        Message 3 of 5 , Aug 24, 2010
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          To: GThos
          In Response To: Tim
          On: Behold
          From: Bruce
           
          TIM: . . .the Coptic word “behold”  (eis-xhhte) . . .is found in the Gospel of Thomas in logioi 3, 9, 10, 113, 114. I've notice it is often translated "look".
           
          BRUCE: Rick Hubbard's concordance sv LOOK gives a different set of references. Taking the above numbers as exhaustive for the Coptic word in question, what interests me is their distribution: the first segment of GThos plus the very end. It sometimes happens that later people add "framing" elements to the beginning and/or end of a previous text, to give information about its supposed author, or to supplement it in some other way. The bookend distribution invites consideration of whether such a process is happening here.
           
          I don't get a constant meaning for these 5 "look" passages. Valantasis (modified):
           
          [3] If your leaders say to you, Look, the [Kingdom] is in the sky . . .
           
          [9] Jesus said, Look, the sower went out . . .
           
          [10] Jesus said, I have cast fire upon the world, and look, I'm guarding it until it blazes.
           
          [113] It will not come by watching for it. It will not be said, Look here! or Look there!
           
          [114] Jesus said, Look, I will guide her to make her male, so that she too may become a living spirit [like] you males.
           
          -------
           
          3 = 113, a command to look at something physically present.
          10 = 114, abstractly regarding a present or future action of Jesus.
          9 = the standard Gospel "behold," used to make a rhetorical shift in introducing a parable, and this in fact, this is a Synoptic parable. The meaning is roughly, "Picture this."
           
          In Chinese popular narratives, which are oral in origin, phrases like "ni kan" (you look) occur regularly. They are an invitation to the audience to imagine the following scene especially closely. It has been suggested that these storytellings were accompanied by an actual picture scroll at which the teller would point. I think this not very likely (it would not work for a large audience, or a teahouse clientele), and take it very much in the sense of Jesus's parable-introducing idiom, calling not on the hearer's faculty of propositional assent, but on their skills of visualization.
           
          Be that as it may, I seem to see that there is some support here for a head-and-tail connection proposal in GThos. The strongest point is that 3 = 113 are basically the same passage. Has anyone given this word some thought, and would they care to share their results?
           
          Bruce
           
          E Bruce Brooks
          Warring States Project
          University of Massachusetts at Amherst
           
        • Michael Grondin
          ... My site can help with this. http://www.gospel-thomas.net/splitv.htm ... where the Greek words are colored-coded. Unfortunately, I see that I haven t (yet)
          Message 4 of 5 , Aug 25, 2010
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            Hi Timster, you wrote:
            > As far as "EIC" goes, I thought perhaps it could be a loan word from
            > Greek, but that is hard to tell as the Greek and Coptic get so mixed up
            > sometimes!

            My site can help with this. http://www.gospel-thomas.net/splitv.htm
            ... where the Greek words are colored-coded. Unfortunately,
            I see that I haven't (yet) done that with the lexicon,
            (http://www.gospel-thomas.net/lex_ce.htm)
            which is maybe where you got your list of occurrences?

            > I appreciate how you chose "listen" as the equivelency of "eis-2hhte"
            > One can "behold" with one's "mind" very well by using the ears, I
            > believe.

            Well, I didn't actually propose 'listen' as a general equivalent. In the
            one saying that has a Markan analogue, it seems to work, but elsewhere
            probably not. It occurred to me later that maybe 'hark!' might work in all
            cases, but then I looked it up and my OAD says 'hark' means 'listen'.
            (Though 'hark back' apparently means 'remember' inter alia!)

            > I have lots of other questions on Coptic/Greek Thomas that I'd like to
            > bring to the list here, if these type of questions are appropriate here
            > ...

            They are. And welcome, too.

            Mike G.
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