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Re: [GTh] Horner and the Disappearance of Bibliacoptica.com

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  • Michael Grondin
    Tim, Thanks for your pointer to the work of J.W.Wells at sahidica.warpco.com. I intend to add that to my links. I ve done some preliminary investigation and
    Message 1 of 5 , Aug 20, 2010
      Tim,
       
      Thanks for your pointer to the work of J.W.Wells at sahidica.warpco.com.
      I intend to add that to my links. I've done some preliminary investigation
      and find some interesting comments on the interplay of various versions
      of the Coptic NT text. As I understand it, the initial source of Wells' work
      was a version prepared at Yale (with the participation of Bentley Layton)
      for the Packard Humanities Institute (PHI). The impetus for the PHI version
      appears to have been disatisfaction with the Horner version. Wells writes:
       
      > The need for a new edition of the Sahidic New Testament has long been recognized;
      > especially by textual scholars. At the time of this writing, the only available print version
      > of the complete Sahidic New Testament is George Horner's seven volume edition
      > released from 1898 through 1905. Kurt and Barbara Aland point out that "Horner pieced
      > together his edition of the Sahidic New Testament from isolated fragments, producing a
      > text with extensive lacunae." They add that the edition is now "antiquated."
       
      At the end of this piece, Wells adds:
      "After the initial edition of Sahidica had been completed, I learned of the
      existance of another Coptic CD. The CD is (at the time of this writing)
      available from the Saint Shenouda the Archimandrite Coptic Society in
      Los Angeles, California. The price of the CD when I purchased it was $50
      US. The fact that the Sahidic NT on the CD was in PDF format allowed me
      to double check my work at that time. After temporarily reducing the PDF
      text to a binary form, I was able to compare the entire Sahidica, PHI, and
      Coptic Society texts in parallel and letter by letter. This allowed me to isolate
      all the differences in the three texts and correct mistakes where they could
      be identified as compared with the Coptic printed editions used in the collation."
      ... [Note: I also paid $50 for it, but it's now listed for $25 - MWG]
       
      Additional light is shed on the situation by an online essay with the lengthy
      title "A Few Notes Concerning Mr. Joseph Warren Wells' Edition of the
      Sahidic and Bohairic Texts of the New Testament", by Gary Dykes:
      (Although the formality of the title might be taken to suggest a negative
      report, Dykes is actually quite complimentary of Wells' work.)
       
      Finally, I found this about the PHI product in question:
      "PHI currently offers two CD ROMs of classical texts: ...
      PHI CD #7 ("Greek Documentary", issued 1997) contains (1) documentary
      papyri prepared at Duke University with the help of the University of
      Michigan; (2) Greek inscriptions prepared at Cornell, Ohio State
      University, et al.; and (3) a Coptic New Testament prepared at Yale
      and the Nag Hammadi texts as prepared at the University of Claremont."

      Of course, what struck me was that the CD contains not only a version
      of the Coptic NT, but the Nag Hammadi texts as well - presumably in
      Coptic. That might be a fine searching tool. (Remember some time
      back when we were looking for the occurrence of a certain word and
      Rick had to manually check umpteen indices in printed works?) From
      what I gather, the CD is free if one goes about requesting it in the right
      way. I haven't figured out what that way is yet.
       
      All this having been written, it suddenly occurred to me that I had been
      forgetting about Marcion:
      That system is free and it also includes both the Coptic NT and the Nag
      Hammadi texts. I don't know what version of the Coptic NT it uses, or where
      its NH texts came from, and it sounds pretty complicated to use (Judy
      Redman has a couple three postings on her blog about that), but maybe
      that's the way to go if one is, like me, interested primarily in searchability.
      (Whether or not one is able to display both the Coptic and the English on
      the same page, as with the St. Shenouda CD, is however unknown to me.
      I guess I need to do some actual work. Ugh. :-)

      Mike Grondin
      Mt. Clemens, MI
    • Michael Grondin
      Further information on the relationship between the Takla and Wells versions of the Coptic NT has been provided to me by Hany Takla in off-list email. I had
      Message 2 of 5 , Aug 23, 2010
        Further information on the relationship between the Takla and
        Wells versions of the Coptic NT has been provided to me by
        Hany Takla in off-list email. I had sent him a copy of my last list
        note on the subject, and wrote to him as follows:

        "I thought you might be interested in the following note that I sent to
        my GThomas list yesterday, especially since your name came into
        it. If you have any observations on any of the issues discussed here,
        I'd love to hear them. (I won't pass them along to the list unless you
        give your permission to do so.)"

        Hany's response was as follows:

        "In explanation I would like to add that the Coptic CD that was initially
        distributed by the Society had four modules of my own work that included
        a Course in Bohairic with recorded pronunciation, Bohairic-English
        Dictionary, An Annual Lectionary of the Feasts in the Coptic Church, and
        the Coptic New Testament. Since we exhausted the stock of this CD, the
        first two modules were licensed to COEPA organization in Australia to
        distribute with one of their electronic products. The New Testament CD
        became a separate CD and was distributed for a reduced price when
        ordered as you have seen. As you know the Sahidic Text was based on
        the latest complete texts published after Horner's edition. I added the
        superlineal strokes and changed the word division to better serve the
        grammatical meaning. However, despite many reviews there were multiple
        typos. J. Warren Wells was good enough to correct many if not all these
        typos in his produced text.

        "Currently I set up for the Society a subscription site
        (http://demo.stshenouda.info/tc.htm) that houses all the separate files for
        the New Testament that were on the CD plus all the periodicals that the
        Society has issued or are currently issued along with contents of some of
        our library holdings and our own manuscript collection. With regards to the
        New Testament I will be making corrections to the texts periodically and
        post them. Also I am planning to release some of the Old Testament Texts
        that I have done from either published sources or manuscript copies in the
        Microform library of the Society. This information can be distributed as
        you see fit. Take care."

        I have expressed my thanks to Hany for sharing this information with us.

        Mike Grondin
        Mt. Clemens, MI
      • Rick Hubbard
        Thanks Mike for digging into this. On two or three occasions I have gone to the St Shenouda site at http://www.stshenouda.com/society/copticcd.htm to order the
        Message 3 of 5 , Aug 24, 2010
          Thanks Mike for digging into this. On two or three occasions I have gone to
          the St Shenouda site at http://www.stshenouda.com/society/copticcd.htm to
          order the Coptic NT CD and every time was unsuccessful when I clicked the
          "Submit" button (got the dreaded "Page No Found" message.

          As an alternative I downloaded the Sahidica material but I'm not too keen on
          the font used with it. As far as the Marcion product I agree with other
          observations that it is simply too cumbersome to be workable.

          But back to the Takla resource: Is the material offered there (via
          subscription) searchable? What is the format like (presumably all the
          strokes are there)?

          Rick
          ||-----Original Message-----
          ||From: gthomas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:gthomas@yahoogroups.com] On
          ||Behalf Of Michael Grondin
          ||Sent: Monday, August 23, 2010 3:40 PM
          ||To: gthomas@yahoogroups.com
          ||Subject: Re: [GTh] Horner and the Disappearance of Bibliacoptica.com
          ||
          ||
          ||
          ||Further information on the relationship between the Takla and Wells
          versions of
          ||the Coptic NT has been provided to me by Hany Takla in off-list email. I
          had
          ||sent him a copy of my last list note on the subject, and wrote to him as
          follows:
          ||
          ||"I thought you might be interested in the following note that I sent to my
          ||GThomas list yesterday, especially since your name came into it. If you
          have
          ||any observations on any of the issues discussed here, I'd love to hear
          them. (I
          ||won't pass them along to the list unless you give your permission to do
          so.)"
          ||
          ||Hany's response was as follows:
          ||
          ||"In explanation I would like to add that the Coptic CD that was initially
          ||distributed by the Society had four modules of my own work that included a
          ||Course in Bohairic with recorded pronunciation, Bohairic-English
          Dictionary, An
          ||Annual Lectionary of the Feasts in the Coptic Church, and the Coptic New
          ||Testament. Since we exhausted the stock of this CD, the first two modules
          were
          ||licensed to COEPA organization in Australia to distribute with one of
          their
          ||electronic products. The New Testament CD became a separate CD and was
          ||distributed for a reduced price when ordered as you have seen. As you know
          ||the Sahidic Text was based on the latest complete texts published after
          Horner's
          ||edition. I added the superlineal strokes and changed the word division to
          better
          ||serve the grammatical meaning. However, despite many reviews there were
          ||multiple typos. J. Warren Wells was good enough to correct many if not all
          these
          ||typos in his produced text.
          ||
          ||"Currently I set up for the Society a subscription site
          ||(http://demo.stshenouda.info/tc.htm) that houses all the separate files
          for the
          ||New Testament that were on the CD plus all the periodicals that the
          Society has
          ||issued or are currently issued along with contents of some of our library
          ||holdings and our own manuscript collection. With regards to the New
          Testament
          ||I will be making corrections to the texts periodically and post them. Also
          I am
          ||planning to release some of the Old Testament Texts that I have done from
          ||either published sources or manuscript copies in the Microform library of
          the
          ||Society. This information can be distributed as you see fit. Take care."
          ||
          ||I have expressed my thanks to Hany for sharing this information with us.
          ||
          ||Mike Grondin
          ||Mt. Clemens, MI
          ||
          ||
          ||
          ||
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