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[gthomas] Re: Who was Salome? (61)

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  • Mark Goodacre
    ... The reference to the seven veils in Clement s letter is as follows: Nevertheless, he [Mark] yet did not divulge the things not to be uttered, nor did he
    Message 1 of 7 , Mar 10 6:37 AM
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      On 10 Mar 99 at 8:49, Mike Grondin wrote:

      > There was, of course, also the niece (and step-daughter) of Herod Antipas,
      > responsible (at the instigation of her mother) for the death of John the
      > Baptist. Although not named in the gospels (perhaps to avoid confusion with
      > the Salome of Mk 15.40 & 16.1), Josephus identifies her as Salome. Was it this
      > Salome who danced "the dance of the seven veils"? I can't find the reference
      > right now, but it's interesting to me that Clement's letter associated with
      > the "Secret Gospel of Mark" mentions seven veils in an entirely different
      > context, although both contexts involve the revelation of something hidden.

      The reference to the seven veils in Clement's letter is as follows:

      "Nevertheless, he [Mark] yet did not divulge the things not to be uttered,
      nor did he write down the hierophantic teaching of the Lord, but to the
      stories already written he added yet others and, moreover, brought in
      certain sayings of which he knew the interpretation would, as a mystagogue,
      lead the hearers into the innermost sanctuary of truth hidden by seven
      veils."

      The same letter mentions Salome too:

      "And after the words,"And he comes into Jericho," the secret Gospel adds
      only, "And the sister of the youth whom Jesus loved and his mother and
      Salome were there, and Jesus did not receive them." But many other
      things about which you wrote both seem to be and are falsifications."

      A search for "Salome" in the gnosis archive
      (http://www.gnosis.org/search_form.html) comes up with 22 references in various
      texts -- Pistis Sophia, Gospel of Pseudo Matthew, Gospel of Bartholomew,
      Protevangelium of James and more.

      Mark
      --------------------------------------
      Dr Mark Goodacre mailto:M.S.Goodacre@...
      Dept of Theology tel: +44 121 414 7512
      University of Birmingham fax: +44 121 414 6866
      Birmingham B15 2TT United Kingdom

      http://www.bham.ac.uk/theology/goodacre
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    • Mark Goodacre
      ... Certainly Matthew mentions the mother of the sons of Zebedee (27.56) in parallel with Mark s Salome (15.40), but one of the earliest interpretations of
      Message 2 of 7 , Mar 10 6:49 AM
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        On 10 Mar 99 at 8:29, Jack Kilmon wrote:

        > Since Mark mentions her by name while Matthew calls her
        > "the mother of the sons of Zebedee," she appears to have
        > been Y'shua's aunt (Miryam's sister). I suspect that
        > she is one of the women who was supporting the group
        > "out of her means." It also suggests that Uncle Zeb's
        > fishing business was somewhat lucrative. If this is
        > so, it would explan aunt Salome's attempt to get her
        > nephew to give special status to his two cuz's.

        Certainly Matthew mentions the mother of the sons of Zebedee (27.56) in
        parallel with Mark's "Salome" (15.40), but one of the earliest interpretations
        of this passage, the fragment of a Gospel Harmony found at Dura-Europos (late
        2nd Century?) probably takes them to be two separate people. The fragment
        (formally thought to be a fragment of Tatian's Diatessaron, though an article
        to be published in April will cast doubt on that identification) begins:

        . . . ZEBED]AIOU KAI SALWMH K[A]I hAI GYNAIKES [EK TW]N AKOLOUQHSANTWN A[U]TWi
        APO THS [GALILAI]AS hORWSAI ton ST[AURWQENT]A.

        Apologies if this is beginning to stray off-topic, but it sheds a little light
        at least on Salome.

        Mark

        --------------------------------------
        Dr Mark Goodacre mailto:M.S.Goodacre@...
        Dept of Theology tel: +44 121 414 7512
        University of Birmingham fax: +44 121 414 6866
        Birmingham B15 2TT United Kingdom

        http://www.bham.ac.uk/theology/goodacre
        Aseneth Home Page
        Recommended New Testament Web Resources
        World Without Q

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      • Didymus5@aol.com
        Mark makes Salome a most important character. She is witness both to the crucifixion and the resurrection. She also appears in GTh and other gnostic
        Message 3 of 7 , Mar 10 5:49 PM
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          Mark makes Salome a most important character. She is witness both to the
          crucifixion and the resurrection. She also appears in GTh and other gnostic
          writings. She is ignored by the other synoptic writers and editors. Morton
          Smith suggests this silence results from her importance to the gnostics,
          which later synoptics are repudiating. I think it was Smith who pointed out
          that some apocryphalal writings make her the midwife at the birth of Jesus
          and others a Doubter, like Thomas, in that she asked for tactile proof that
          the mother of Jesus was still a virgin. Chris Merillat

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        • Didymus5@aol.com
          Further to yesterday s file, the story about a Salome present at Mary s giving birth, questioning whether she was still a virgin, comes from the Protevangelium
          Message 4 of 7 , Mar 11 12:41 PM
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            Further to yesterday's file, the story about a Salome present at Mary's giving
            birth, questioning whether she was still a virgin, comes from the
            Protevangelium of James. It is striking that Mark has three women witness the
            crucifixion and the angelic young man in the empty tomb. Salome and Mary
            Magdalene were favorite disciples for the Gnostics. Those interested in
            Salome stories might like to look Bauckman's article in Novum Testamentaum, 33
            , 1991. Chris M.

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