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[GTh] Re: hidden structure of Gthom revealed - update 1

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  • Jaime Palomares
    Jeff wrote: What the meaning of 24 is in Gthom, however I don t know for the moment. Does it refer to the hours? In this case it may refer to a certain
    Message 1 of 43 , Nov 15, 2009
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      Jeff wrote:
      What the meaning of '24' is in Gthom, however I don't know for the moment.
      Does it refer to the hours? In this case it may refer to a certain Egyptian
      background, because the Egyptians were the first to ascribe a certain value to the number 24 and seem to be the first to have divided the day in 24 parts. But that is as far as I get.
      >>

      A suggested meaning:

      If by the 'Kingdom' in the Gthom is meant Jesus himself, i.e. as the presence of divine light in some revelatory degree, we can also say its a manifestation of the 'alpha and omega' from which all things are derived and have connection. Irenaeus points to something like this when he says some Gnostic groups wrote that the 6 letters of IHEOYE (i.e., Jesus) was also the fullness of eights, or 'Plenitude of Ogdoads' (IHEOYE =888, added together =24, and added again =6) containing within itself all the elements and letters.

      From Paul's vision of the three heavens where he heard "things that cannot be told, that man may not utter" we might understand there were at least three revelatory degrees of divine light. The two higher degrees seem to be assumed in the Gthom, if L.9 is taken as indication of the amount of seed=divine light that is sown according to spiritual receptivity. In Matthew (13:3-9); Mark (4:3-9), the same seed parable contains all three degrees (cf. Luke 8:5-8, or to a seven tiered system of seven heavens).

      In this context, its interesting to note the number 24 can be used to make a palindrome, since in later Jewish mysticism the name of god in 42 letters could refer to "I Am that I Am." A justification for linking the two comes from noting that, like Jesus of the Gnostics, Metatron in the Shi'ur Qomah has a double name, one in 6 letters and the other in 24 letters.

      -james

      (Ed. note: Mr. Palomares renders the Greek form of the name 'Jesus' as IHEOYE, rather than the more conventional IHSOUS, presumably on the grounds that one form of uncial sigma somewhat resembles an 'E' - though it must be pointed out that uncial epsilon resembles it more, which will surely lead to confusion. Posters are advised to follow the transliteration scheme at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gthomas/files/CopAsci2.gif, although some leeway is allowed for the Greek letter upsilon when it functions as a 'Y' or 'V'. -MWG)
    • Michael Grondin
      ... But why bother with something that we can only guess at? Seems to me that where the interest came from is probably undecidable (since there s several
      Message 43 of 43 , Nov 20, 2009
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        > So now we have 4 cases of 24, including a Coptic one. Maybe my idea of
        > the 'Egyptian' background for explaining the interest in '24' in Gthom
        > was > not that bad a guess?

        But why bother with something that we can only guess at? Seems to me
        that where the interest came from is probably undecidable (since there's
        several possible sources), but that it's not all that important anyway.
        I think it's sufficient to show that Coptic GTh does have an interest in
        the number 24 (among others), wherever that came from. Unnecessary
        speculation does little but divert attention from the factual findings,
        IMO. And since the factual findings run strongly counter to widespread
        beliefs about the Coptic GTh, the case needs to be built as rigorously
        and with as few unnecessary complications as possible.

        Mike
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