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[GTh] Re: hidden structure of Gthom revealed - update 1

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  • Jeff
    ... Hi James, interesting to see that these numbers 6 and 24 seem to have been linked to esoteric and exoteric meanings. 24 being a more exoteric meaning
    Message 1 of 43 , Nov 14, 2009
      Jaime Palomares wrote:
      >
      > As an incidental note (your points 8 & 9) and the number 24, recalls the imagery associated with the Body of Truth, or Logos of the Valentinian Markos, whose members were said to be composed of the 24 letters of the alphabet. These letter forms, in divine dress were also apparently called angels, that continually beheld the face of the Father (cf. Rev. 4:4).
      >
      > For Markos Gnostikos, "Christ" was an exoteric name of 24 letters (cf. in common with Metatron), whereas his esoteric name was in 6 letters. This remark can be compared to the Gphillip passage which says "Christ" was a revealed name, and "Jesus" a hidden name.
      >
      > This also not unlike the two types of revelation spoken of in IV Ezra, one consisting of 24 books intended for the masses, and the other in seventy books intended for initiates to be kept secret. Another source associates 24 to the words to the Torah (canonical books) studied by day, whereas the number 6 is in reference to orders of the Mishnah, studied by night.
      >
      > -james
      >

      Hi James,

      interesting to see that these numbers 6 and 24 seem to have been linked to esoteric and exoteric meanings.

      '24' being a more exoteric meaning used during the day, and '6' a more esoteric one, used during the night.

      In Gthom the number 24 seems to be of importance, at least to him who has composed this layer of Gthom that contains '24'. So far I have seen 3 ways in Gthom in which the number 24 shows up:
      - the 24 kingdoms
      - the 24 dialogues
      - the 24 prophets of Israel from L.52, where the number 24 is explicitly mentioned.

      What the meaning of '24' is in Gthom, however I don't know for the moment.
      Does it refer to the hours? In this case it may refer to a certain Egyptian background, because the Egyptians were the first to ascribe a certain value to the number 24 and seem to be the first to have divided the day in 24 parts.
      But that is as far as I get.

      If the number '6' is indeed linked to the esoteric, and this is also true for Gthom, then we may find examples of this in it.

      In the scheme I have laid out, the first 'page' (that in my view is built around L.3 that contains the whole core meaning of Gthom) is made up of 6 logia: L.0 - L.5.

      The other 'page' or 'column' with 6 logia is page 8 - the 'page' with the parables - which begins with L.62 (the start of 'kernel-speech 4' according to Deconick). It is the logion that says "I speak of my mysteries to those worthy of my mysteries. What your right hand does, let not your left hand know of it." Which is quite in line with the 'esoteric' meaning of '6' that you have mentioned in other texts.

      regards,
      Jeff
    • Michael Grondin
      ... But why bother with something that we can only guess at? Seems to me that where the interest came from is probably undecidable (since there s several
      Message 43 of 43 , Nov 20, 2009
        > So now we have 4 cases of 24, including a Coptic one. Maybe my idea of
        > the 'Egyptian' background for explaining the interest in '24' in Gthom
        > was > not that bad a guess?

        But why bother with something that we can only guess at? Seems to me
        that where the interest came from is probably undecidable (since there's
        several possible sources), but that it's not all that important anyway.
        I think it's sufficient to show that Coptic GTh does have an interest in
        the number 24 (among others), wherever that came from. Unnecessary
        speculation does little but divert attention from the factual findings,
        IMO. And since the factual findings run strongly counter to widespread
        beliefs about the Coptic GTh, the case needs to be built as rigorously
        and with as few unnecessary complications as possible.

        Mike
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