Re: [GTh] Re: hidden structure of Gthom revealed - update 1
- Hi Ariadne,
For primary sources see the following discussions in the following secondary studies from which I made the following notes:
As an incidental note (your points 8 & 9) and the number 24, recalls the imagery associated with the Body of Truth, or Logos of the Valentinian Markos, whose members were said to be composed of the 24 letters of the alphabet. These letter forms, in divine dress were also apparently called angels, that continually beheld the face of the Father (cf. Rev. 4:4).
[Source: cited in Gedaliahu G. Stroumsa, in "Form(s) of God: Some Notes on Metatron and Christ: For Shlomo Pines," The Harvard Theological Review, Vol. 76, No. 3. (Jul., 1983), p. 280]
For Markos Gnostikos, "Christ" was an exoteric name of 24 letters (cf. in common with Metatron), whereas his esoteric name was in 6 letters. This remark can be compared to the Gphillip passage which says "Christ" was a revealed name, and "Jesus" a hidden name.
[Source: cited in Gedaliahu G. Stroumsa, in "Form(s) of God: Some Notes on Metatron and Christ: For Shlomo Pines," The Harvard Theological Review, Vol. 76, No. 3. (Jul., 1983), p. 281]
This also not unlike the two types of revelation spoken of in IV Ezra, one consisting of 24 books intended for the masses, and the other in seventy books intended for initiates to be kept secret.
[Source: cited in Joseph P. Schultz, "Angelic Opposition to the Ascension of Moses and the Revelation of the Law," The Jewish Quarterly Review, New Ser., Vol. 61, No. 4. (Apr., 1971), p. 293]
Another source associates 24 to the words to the Torah (canonical books) studied by day, whereas the number 6 is in reference to orders of the Mishnah, studied by night.
[Source: cited in Raphael Loewe, “The Divine Garment and Shi'ur Qomah,” The Harvard Theological Review, Vol. 58, No. 1. (Jan., 1965), p. 156]
--- On Mon, 11/9/09, Ariadne Green <ariadne@...> wrote:
From: Ariadne Green <ariadne@...>
Subject: Re: [GTh] Re: hidden structure of Gthom revealed - update 1
Date: Monday, November 9, 2009, 10:11 AM
Can you give us the source and references to this material please. I
for one would be very interested to read it.
> So now we have 4 cases of 24, including a Coptic one. Maybe my idea ofBut why bother with something that we can only guess at? Seems to me
> the 'Egyptian' background for explaining the interest in '24' in Gthom
> was > not that bad a guess?
that where the interest came from is probably undecidable (since there's
several possible sources), but that it's not all that important anyway.
I think it's sufficient to show that Coptic GTh does have an interest in
the number 24 (among others), wherever that came from. Unnecessary
speculation does little but divert attention from the factual findings,
IMO. And since the factual findings run strongly counter to widespread
beliefs about the Coptic GTh, the case needs to be built as rigorously
and with as few unnecessary complications as possible.