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[gthomas] Re: Blaspheming Spirit

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  • Stevan Davies
    ... Father is not in Mark. Read it... chapter 3. All blasphemies are forgiven except when your blasphemy claims that the Holy Spirit is an unclean spirit. This
    Message 1 of 3 , Feb 23, 1999
      > Stevan Davies wrote:
      > > 3. Then Jesus spells out the fact that saying that he has an
      > > unclean spirit, rather than the holy spirit, is a blasphemy against
      > > the holy spirit that is absolutely unforgiveable.
      > But can one blaspheme the father, or do you think that the Holy Spirit
      > that Jesus is talking about in Mark is the whole shebang, i.e., that
      > there is no difference between this Holy Spirit and God?

      Father is not in Mark. Read it... chapter 3.

      All blasphemies are forgiven except when your blasphemy
      claims that the Holy Spirit is an unclean spirit. This can't be

      It does seem to be implied that the Holy Spirit is God. But
      who denies that? God does have aspects, like Spirit and Wisdom,
      and they aren't strictly speaking synonyms of God but
      manifestations or parts of God. If it's assumed that the Spirit
      of God does the forgiving, it isn't going to forgive you if you
      think it's not the Spirit of God but an unclean spirit. So the
      inability to forgive and the claim that it is an unclean spirit
      are logically entailed.

      Unfortunately, while I think Mark's view of things makes
      perfectly good sense, this is Mark's view of things and cannot
      be imported into Thomas.

      As in Mark 13:32, Thomas 44 uses the term "Son" without
      modifiers exactly once. Same thing for Q/Lk 10:22, a unique
      "Son" usage. So one is hard pressed to figure out
      what is supposed to be going on with the term in any of these
      texts. Same problem for "Holy Spirit" which shows up only
      once in Thomas 44.

      One cannot possibly work from Thomas' views on Son and
      Holy Spirit to figure out 44 if you only have one instance of each,
      in 44, which is what you are trying to figure out.

      What Mark, or Paul, or John, or the Apoc John have to say
      about Son or Holy Spirit can only be relevant to what Thomas
      has to say if it is established that Thomas is reflective of
      the views of one or more of those texts. The only possible
      candidate is John and that's certainly debatable. One would
      have to ask "what would this saying mean if it showed up
      in the Gospel of John?" and then apply that to Thomas.
      This is almost insane behavior.... but people have done it
      with Q/Lk 10:22 almost as a matter of course and so maybe
      it's a respectable procedure.

      If we do this (with a shudder) we might think that the difference
      between Father and Son is that both are in Heaven and,
      however lively and quick they are up there, they aren't as
      much down here as is the Holy Spirit (aka Paraclete). Thus
      blaspheming against the present activity of God (HS) in the
      people of the community is unforgiveable, while blaspheming
      against heavenly beings (F S) is forgiveable (which I believe it
      to be according to Torah). This will provide a similar point
      of view to the one held by Mark without having recourse to
      Mark in deriving it, which will give it a bit of an edge.


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