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Monthly Report for May

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  • Michael Grondin
    Thanks to Stephen Carlson, the 36 messages posted to our list in May was higher than the preceding six years - but we still lost ground to XTalk, which had a
    Message 1 of 10 , Jun 1, 2009
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      Thanks to Stephen Carlson, the 36 messages posted to our list in
      May was higher than the preceding six years - but we still lost ground
      to XTalk, which had a huge month of 111 messages. (Five month
      totals = our 218 to their 269.) XTalk's May was similar to our February
      (where we had 120 messages). In both cases, the large volume
      was sparked by one hyperactive contributor. In fact, the XTalk
      contributor in question posted more messages in May than our
      entire list! This is not to disparage such individual activity, but
      to indicate that such months are unusual.

      What most concerns me is that the number of active contributors
      to the list remains too low. I suspect that the basic reasons for this
      are our relatively limited focus and a declining degree of attention
      paid to this type of forum, but whatever the basic reasons, we still
      have almost 280 members (with almost no dead addresses, unlike
      other lists which never cull those out), so if but a few more of our
      subscribers could be enticed (or jolted) out of absolute lurker-mode
      from time to time, I think we'd be better off. Of course, a lurker level
      of around 90% is pretty standard, but still, a few active contributors
      makes a big difference.

      Cheers,
      Mike G.
      Mt. Clemens, MI
    • Bob Schacht
      ... Mike, My experience, with about 10 years on XTalk , etc., is that there s nothing like a good question to increase participation. Go back and take a look
      Message 2 of 10 , Jun 1, 2009
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        At 09:07 AM 6/1/2009, Michael Grondin wrote:


        >Thanks to Stephen Carlson, the 36 messages posted to our list in
        >May was higher than the preceding six years - but we still lost ground
        >to XTalk, which had a huge month of 111 messages. (Five month
        >totals = our 218 to their 269.) XTalk's May was similar to our February
        >(where we had 120 messages). In both cases, the large volume
        >was sparked by one hyperactive contributor. In fact, the XTalk
        >contributor in question posted more messages in May than our
        >entire list! This is not to disparage such individual activity, but
        >to indicate that such months are unusual.
        >
        >What most concerns me is that the number of active contributors
        >to the list remains too low. I suspect that the basic reasons for this
        >are our relatively limited focus and a declining degree of attention
        >paid to this type of forum, but whatever the basic reasons, we still
        >have almost 280 members (with almost no dead addresses, unlike
        >other lists which never cull those out), so if but a few more of our
        >subscribers could be enticed (or jolted) out of absolute lurker-mode
        >from time to time, I think we'd be better off. Of course, a lurker level
        >of around 90% is pretty standard, but still, a few active contributors
        >makes a big difference.

        Mike,
        My experience, with about 10 years on XTalk , etc., is that there's nothing
        like a good question to increase participation. Go back and take a look at
        those busy months, and look for the spark that set the discussion in
        motion. IIRC, you used to be a pretty good instigator, yourself. :-)

        Bob Schacht
        Hawaii

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Paul Lanier
        ... Hi Mike, Bob - I hope to resume instigating erratically in the near future. I purchased a new laptop (lots of RAM, etc) and I am working on interfacing
        Message 3 of 10 , Jun 1, 2009
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          --- In gthomas@yahoogroups.com, Bob Schacht <Bobschacht@...> wrote:
          > Mike...you used to be a pretty good instigator, yourself. :-)

          Hi Mike, Bob -
          I hope to resume instigating erratically in the near future. I purchased a new laptop (lots of RAM, etc) and I am working on interfacing Visual Studio Express with MySQL. After I get the hang of that I am going to take a much closer look at a couple of the posts I submitted during the past six months to see what lurks beneath the digital surface.
          Regards, Paul
        • Michael Grondin
          ... Don t have the energy I used to, Bob. And the right words don t come as easily, either. In fact, sometimes they don t come at all. Actually, although I
          Message 4 of 10 , Jun 1, 2009
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            > My experience, with about 10 years on XTalk , etc., is that there's
            > nothing like a good question to increase participation. Go back and
            > take a look at those busy months, and look for the spark that set the
            > discussion in motion. IIRC, you used to be a pretty good instigator,
            > yourself. :-)

            Don't have the energy I used to, Bob. And the right words don't come as
            easily, either. In fact, sometimes they don't come at all. Actually,
            although I didn't say so in my message, I was aware that it was your note
            of April 30th that was the spark that ended a dry spell of eight days on
            XTalk and led to a very active May. Of course, without the hyperactivity
            of the one subscriber, the volume might have been only half of what it was,
            but that's still a good response to your instigating question(s). Sound
            advice.

            Mike
          • Scavone, Daniel C
            Dear list members, Has there been any discussion of the Hymn of the Pearl/Soul on the list? If so, how would I access the wise comments of the gthomas
            Message 5 of 10 , Jun 15, 2009
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              Dear list members,

              Has there been any discussion of the Hymn of the Pearl/Soul on the list?
              If so, how would I access the wise comments of the gthomas scholars?

              Many thanks,

              Dan Scavone, Ph.D.
              Prof. of History Emeritus
              University of Southern Indiana,Evansville
            • Roger Mott
              Dear Dr. Scovone There is a pretty good advanced search routine on the Yahoo home page for this list. I put in Hymn of the Pearl in the subject line and
              Message 6 of 10 , Jun 15, 2009
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                Dear Dr. Scovone

                There is a pretty good advanced search routine on the Yahoo home page for this list. I put in "Hymn of the Pearl" in the subject line and came up with (6) 1999 posts by scholars like Jack Kilmon and Stevan Davies.

                The "Hymn" string began with post number 516.

                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gthomas/message/516

                Roger Mott
                Waterloo, Iowa

                --- In gthomas@yahoogroups.com, "Scavone, Daniel C" <DCScavon@...> wrote:
                >
                > Dear list members,
                >
                > Has there been any discussion of the Hymn of the Pearl/Soul on the list?
                > If so, how would I access the wise comments of the gthomas scholars?
                >
                > Many thanks,
                >
                > Dan Scavone, Ph.D.
                > Prof. of History Emeritus
                > University of Southern Indiana,Evansville
                >
              • Scavone, Daniel C
                Thank you, Roger, for taking the time. I got them all. Best wishes, Dan Scavone ________________________________________ From: gthomas@yahoogroups.com
                Message 7 of 10 , Jun 16, 2009
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                  Thank you, Roger, for taking the time. I got them all.

                  Best wishes,

                  Dan Scavone

                  ________________________________________
                  From: gthomas@yahoogroups.com [gthomas@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Roger Mott [mottrogere5@...]
                  Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 3:39 PM
                  To: gthomas@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [GTh] Re: "Hymn of the Pearl" posts

                  Dear Dr. Scovone

                  There is a pretty good advanced search routine on the Yahoo home page for this list. I put in "Hymn of the Pearl" in the subject line and came up with (6) 1999 posts by scholars like Jack Kilmon and Stevan Davies.

                  The "Hymn" string began with post number 516.

                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gthomas/message/516

                  Roger Mott
                  Waterloo, Iowa

                  --- In gthomas@yahoogroups.com, "Scavone, Daniel C" <DCScavon@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Dear list members,
                  >
                  > Has there been any discussion of the Hymn of the Pearl/Soul on the list?
                  > If so, how would I access the wise comments of the gthomas scholars?
                  >
                  > Many thanks,
                  >
                  > Dan Scavone, Ph.D.
                  > Prof. of History Emeritus
                  > University of Southern Indiana,Evansville
                  >




                  ------------------------------------

                  Gospel of Thomas Homepage: http://home.epix.net/~miser17/Thomas.html
                  Interlinear translation: http://www.geocities.com/mwgrondin/x_transl.htm

                  ------------------------------------
                  Yahoo! Groups Links



                  http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                • Scavone, Daniel C
                  Dear List members, I hope I won t be clobbered for this totally personal suggestion re the Hymn of the Pearl/Soul. Background is the legend of ailing Edessan
                  Message 8 of 10 , Jun 18, 2009
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                    Dear List members,

                    I hope I won't be clobbered for this totally personal suggestion re the Hymn of the Pearl/Soul.

                    Background is the legend of ailing Edessan king Abgar V (d. ca. 50 CE) being converted to Christianity
                    by a miraculous cloth image of Jesus associated somewhow, with various story lines, with Thomas's
                    mission to Parthia/India. In a passage in the sixth-century Greek Acts of Thaddaeus, the cloth with
                    which Jesus wiped his face leaving its image was called a sindon tetradiplon. Since sindon is the

                    synoptics word for Jesus's shroud, I have I have wondered if this "folded shroud" could be the much-

                    needed document for a first-century origin of the Turin Shroud in Edessa. In Eusebius and in the Acts

                    of Thaddaeus Thomas sends Thaddaeus/Addai to deliver the image and heal Abgar. An Addai has been

                    traditionally linked to Adiabene by Josephus (Antiquities). Then Thomas might have sent him from

                    Nisibis or Adiabene to Edessa, but from the East, the traditional area of Thomas's ministry.



                    So, with the Turin Shroud in the mix--with its twin image possibly formed by Jesus's own body (not

                    miraculously but by some natural transfer process)--could it be the royal garment of the first-person

                    protagonist of the allegorical Hymn? This prince left the kingdom of the King of Kings to retrieve the pearl

                    protected by a dragon. The pearl, Jesus's mission, was the salvation of souls. The key lines of the Hymn

                    could support this view. After taking off his royal garment and putting on the clothing of the locals, the

                    prince became mired in eartly business. Finally, his father’s letter begs him to complete his mission and

                    return home. He retrieves the pearl, then having put on his own splendid garment, he returns home to his

                    father's kingdom. It is the prominence of this garment in a first century text that suggests the Shroud.
                    "It became like me, as my reflection in a mirror, and in it I saw myself, yet quite apart from myself, so that

                    we were two in distinction and again one in single form. I clothed myself with it and mounted up to the

                    palace of peace and worship" (Hymn vv.76-78).



                    I did not see any of this in past threads on the list, so I am quite apprehensive. Comments?



                    Dan Scavone













                    ________________________________________
                    From: gthomas@yahoogroups.com [gthomas@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Roger Mott [mottrogere5@...]
                    Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 3:39 PM
                    To: gthomas@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [GTh] Re: "Hymn of the Pearl" posts

                    Dear Dr. Scovone

                    There is a pretty good advanced search routine on the Yahoo home page for this list. I put in "Hymn of the Pearl" in the subject line and came up with (6) 1999 posts by scholars like Jack Kilmon and Stevan Davies.

                    The "Hymn" string began with post number 516.

                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gthomas/message/516

                    Roger Mott
                    Waterloo, Iowa

                    --- In gthomas@yahoogroups.com, "Scavone, Daniel C" <DCScavon@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Dear list members,
                    >
                    > Has there been any discussion of the Hymn of the Pearl/Soul on the list?
                    > If so, how would I access the wise comments of the gthomas scholars?
                    >
                    > Many thanks,
                    >
                    > Dan Scavone, Ph.D.
                    > Prof. of History Emeritus
                    > University of Southern Indiana,Evansville
                    >




                    ------------------------------------

                    Gospel of Thomas Homepage: http://home.epix.net/~miser17/Thomas.html
                    Interlinear translation: http://www.geocities.com/mwgrondin/x_transl.htm

                    ------------------------------------
                    Yahoo! Groups Links
                  • Roger Mott
                    Hi Dan, Seems that the alleged image that the Edessian King used for healing was from the tradition of Veronica who allegedly wiped the face of Jesus on the
                    Message 9 of 10 , Jun 18, 2009
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                      Hi Dan,

                      Seems that the alleged image that the Edessian King used for healing was from the tradition of Veronica who allegedly wiped the face of Jesus on the Via Dolorosa. This was written in the 1913 Catholic Encyclopedia. This is an important tradition in the Catholic Church. Eusubius wrote about it and associated Berenike/Veronica as a friend of Martha of Bethany and apparently was the woman healed of blood flowage (Matt 9:20). The name "Berenike" is first written in the "Acts of Pilate".

                      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Veronica

                      Roger Mott
                      Loveland, Co.
                    • Scavone, Daniel C
                      THANK YOU AGAIN, ROGER! Actually I found that the story of Edessa wiped-on face was the source for the Veronica legends. Edessa a face image was real, was
                      Message 10 of 10 , Jun 19, 2009
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                        THANK YOU AGAIN, ROGER!

                        Actually I found that the story of Edessa wiped-on face was the source for the Veronica legends.
                        Edessa'a face image was real, was copied a lot, and was claimed in Constantinople and elsewhere as the model for their own iconic frontal faces of Jesus for centuries.
                        Also I found that one Makarios of Magnesia (ca. A.D. 400) identifies her as a princess of Edessa ( Crafer, T.W. The Apocriticus of Macarius Magnes (New York: Macmillan, 1919), p. 31).

                        Moses of Khorene (ca. 5th to 8th c.) even goes so far as to name her as Abgar's queen (von Dobschütz, Christusbilder, 1899, p. 114).



                        I'm still hoping to hear what the members of the list may think of the notion that the "alter-ego" of the folded Edessa cloth, apparently a larger full-body image of Jesus's burial cloth later sent to Constantinople, unfolded, and recognized as such, may be that which is being described by the expression "mirror-image" ("twin" of Jesus's body) in the Hymn of the Pearl.



                        Thanks for going with me on this quest.



                        Dan Scavone


                        ________________________________________
                        From: gthomas@yahoogroups.com [gthomas@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Roger Mott [mottrogere5@...]
                        Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 3:37 PM
                        To: gthomas@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [GTh] Re: "Hymn of the Pearl" posts

                        Hi Dan,

                        Seems that the alleged image that the Edessian King used for healing was from the tradition of Veronica who allegedly wiped the face of Jesus on the Via Dolorosa. This was written in the 1913 Catholic Encyclopedia. This is an important tradition in the Catholic Church. Eusubius wrote about it and associated Berenike/Veronica as a friend of Martha of Bethany and apparently was the woman healed of blood flowage (Matt 9:20). The name "Berenike" is first written in the "Acts of Pilate".

                        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Veronica

                        Roger Mott
                        Loveland, Co.



                        ------------------------------------

                        Gospel of Thomas Homepage: http://home.epix.net/~miser17/Thomas.html
                        Interlinear translation: http://www.geocities.com/mwgrondin/x_transl.htm

                        ------------------------------------
                        Yahoo! Groups Links
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