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Re: Probability of No Mark Parallels for 29 Sayings in Thomas

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  • kurt31416
    Hi Mike, I ll help you with the graphics. The least I can do, considering how much you ve done to help us all approach truth about the Gospel of Thomas. I
    Message 1 of 56 , Feb 3, 2009
      Hi Mike,

      I'll help you with the graphics. The least I can do, considering how
      much you've done to help us all approach truth about the Gospel of
      Thomas. I think I understand it. Basically, you have three
      parameters, the sayings, the coptic blocks and the groups of 100,
      400, 600 etc. They line up here and there, such as #71. It could be
      as simple as the size of the number of lines being shown with
      standard mechanical drawing arrows in the white margin of the graphic
      uploaded today. It already has the Coptic blocks and sayings. That's
      the first thing I do when dealing with that kind of stuff, draw a
      picture. I suppose one not showing the parallels would be clearer at
      a glance, I'll knock something out by the end of the weekend if not
      sooner, can't do it tonight, I don't have the original Adobe
      Illustrator file on this computer.

      As one goes through the number of lines, it's repeatedly off by 2
      lines one way or the other. For seemingly unrelated reasons, like
      that first block you threw out being 2 off from leaving even
      hundreds. I have a stupid question, isn't there "The Gospel of
      Thomas" at the end? How many lines is that? If they spread it out
      over two lines, there's your even last 100. Then the even 100 in two
      blocks, then the even 400, except in this case, including #71, then
      all of #10, if it's 4 lines, added to that first block to match
      what's left over after you subtract out even hundreds of lines.

      But yeah, barring that, you want to move a single saying/two lines
      block, like #71, close to the end.

      I've personally had the theory that at one time, those two Mark
      single sayings blocks, one Mark two sayings block and the other two
      Marks in a small block at the end were moved there for some reason,
      that originally they were with the other Marks. Other than 77b being
      moved there, (hello), the Greek has the same sequence as the Coptic,
      with no sayings added or subtracted. But, all the Greek Thomas is in
      two big Coptic blocks. Shifting blocks wouldn't affect the order. If
      one wanted to shift some sayings to the end to make it come out even,
      what would work is the single sayings and short sayings blocks. Plus,
      the way some sayings in the end, numerically mimic similiar sayings
      at the beginning. Like 3 and 113, or 11 and 111 etc. is suspicious.

      Perhaps places to move the Mark single/short sayings blocks at the
      end, to places between blocks in the main Mark part, where the
      catchwords would line up, would get close to the original order of
      Thomas, before the Coptics tried to make it come out even hundreds...

      Rick Van Vliet
    • ronmccann1@shaw.ca
      Hi Jack, Sorry you are feeling poorly. Hope you feel better soon. Whatever the outcome of these discussions, I just wanted to say that I much admire the fact
      Message 56 of 56 , May 7, 2010
        Hi Jack,
         
        Sorry you are feeling poorly. Hope you feel better soon.
         
        Whatever the outcome of these discussions, I just wanted to say that I much admire the fact that, as a historian, you picked up two historical references to two very, very early Chritian documents in Papias (The Matthean Logia and Mark's Notes) and have proposed that one was our Book of Q and the other the Gospel of Thomas.
        Quite an original idea, and well worth exploring.
        It's been been both interesting and stimulating trying to test out your intriguing proposal.
        Thanks.
         
        When you get back to this, I have a question.- Since the Matthean Logia is said to have been written down in Aramaic (actually, Papais calls it "Hebrew".) wouldn't back translating the Q parallel sayings in Thomas not also yield the sort of results you've found in the Markan sayings?
         
        Best Regards,
         
        Ron McCann
        Sasakatoon, Canada         PS Couldn't find a listing for a Kilmon in the phone book. Does yourr son go by a different name or like many of the younger set,  does he use only a cellphone?
         
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