Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

RE: [GTh] Comments Invited

Expand Messages
  • Frank McCoy
    Hi Mike! Thanks for the information on cwwe. I notice that, in the IQP s attempt to convert the Coptic to Greek, they use agron for cwwe in 78.1. Is cwwe,
    Message 1 of 8 , Mar 25, 2008
    • 0 Attachment
      Hi Mike!

      Thanks for the information on cwwe.

      I notice that, in the IQP's attempt to convert the Coptic to Greek, they
      use agron for cwwe in 78.1.

      Is cwwe, then, closely related in meaning to the Greek agros--found in
      Mt 6:28 and (in the plural) in Mk 5:14? Can it ever be in the plural
      like agros?

      Frank McCoy
      <http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=1127921/grpspId=1705074057/m
      sgId=7890/stime=1206426159/nc1=3848642/nc2=5191954/nc3=5202321>



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Michael Grondin
      ... Yep, but the third letter of the Coptic word is that W with a tail on it, which is an sh sound. The standard GThomas transliteration scheme would
      Message 2 of 8 , Mar 25, 2008
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi Frank; you wrote:
        > I notice that, in the IQP's attempt to convert the Coptic to Greek, they
        > use agron for cwwe in 78.1.
        >
        > Is cwwe, then, closely related in meaning to the Greek agros ...

        Yep, but the third letter of the Coptic word is that 'W' with a tail on it,
        which is an 'sh' sound. The standard GThomas transliteration scheme
        would render it 'SW$E', pronounced (as I understand it) SOH-sheh.
        (ref: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gthomas/files/BasicInfo/)

        > Can it ever be in the plural like agros?

        Sure, but the plural is formed differently in Coptic. Whereas Greek
        changes the end of the root-word, Coptic leaves the root-word the
        same and appends a plural article to it - 'N' in this case. Thus N-SW$E.
        (The 'N' would have an overstroke, hence pronounced 'en'.)

        Regards,
        Mike
        (p.s., Let's see if a Coptic font works: N.sw¥e )

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Rick Hubbard
        Hey Mike- I haven t gone through your new revision line-by-line, by any means, but I REALLY like the new format. Good Job, and do not quit. Rick Hubbard Humble
        Message 3 of 8 , Mar 26, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          Hey Mike-

          I haven't gone through your new revision line-by-line, by any means, but I
          REALLY like the new format. Good Job, and do not quit.

          Rick Hubbard
          Humble Maine Woodsman


          ||-----Original Message-----
          ||From: gthomas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:gthomas@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
          ||Of Michael Grondin
          ||Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 5:24 PM
          ||To: gthomas@yahoogroups.com
          ||Subject: [GTh] Comments Invited
          ||
          ||I know many of you are busy, if not on vacation, this weekend, but
          ||I'm rather excited about some test changes I've uploaded to my
          ||website, and I'm anxious to get some feedback about it. Some of
          ||this discussion is technical, but those to whom such talk is gobbledy-
          ||gook can skip over to the non-technical stuff.
          ||
          ||The proposed changes are in my saying-by-saying presentation,
          ||as currently exhibited in saying 79. (I chose that one because
          ||there was a minor error in the Coptic - one letter which should
          ||have been shown as being in a lacuna was not so shown. As it
          ||happens, my attention was brought to that error by the Coptic
          ||of L.79 used by Mark Goodacre in a paper we discussed here
          ||some time back.)
          ||
          ||To compare the old with the proposed new, go to
          ||http://www.geocities.com/mwgrondin/splitv.htm
          ||and click on 79 in one-half of the screen, any other saying
          ||in the other half of the screen.
          ||
          ||The most basic change is that the English translation which
          ||appears at the top of each sayings-page (and which is Lambdin's,
          ||BTW) is now enclosed in the .htm file rather than in the .gif files.
          ||What this means in practice is that one can now (1) copy the verbiage
          ||of the translation from the screen if desired, and (2) change the size
          ||of it on the screen for best personal viewing (in Internet Explorer,
          ||medium text-size seems to work best, as far as making it roughly
          ||the same size as what is below it on the screen, but readers with
          ||bad eyesight can make it bigger.)
          ||
          ||Other proposed changes:
          ||1. Subsayings denotations changed from a, b, c, etc. (which I still
          ||personally prefer) to the standard 1, 2, 3, etc.
          ||2. Addition of April DeConick's designation as "kernel" or
          ||"accretion" (assuming it's either "fair use" or she gives permission.)
          ||
          ||[Technical talk]: The impetus for this effort was that I've recently
          ||been able, for the first time, to create transparent gifs on the PC
          ||I purchased in 2001. For reasons unknown, the software I used
          ||on my old PC to create my original set of transparent gifs back in
          ||1999 didn't work on the new PC. Nor did upgrades to the software.
          ||(Visitors to my site may have wondered why the copyright notice
          ||on most of my pages hadn't been changed since 2002. Now you
          ||know; it's a transparent gif.) Recently, however, I tried a new piece
          ||of software (LView Pro) and got it to work. And - in case anyone is
          ||wondering why the background of my pages looks like that on
          ||Paterson Brown's Metalogos site - it's because I borrowed his
          ||background (with his permission) for my transparent gifs.
          ||
          ||Any and all comments on these proposed changes are welcome,
          ||either offlist or on. Also any proposed improvements.
          ||
          ||Mike Grondin
          ||
          ||
          ||------------------------------------
          ||
          ||------------------------------------------------------------------------
          ||Gospel of Thomas Homepage: http://home.epix.net/~miser17/Thomas.html
          ||Interlinear translation: http://www.geocities.com/mwgrondin/x_transl.htm
          ||Yahoo! Groups Links
          ||
          ||
          ||
        • Michael Grondin
          Thanks, Rick, for your encouragement. I ve also received an offlist note from old buddy Kevin Johnson that I ll answer here. It involves the Coptic translation
          Message 4 of 8 , Mar 27, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            Thanks, Rick, for your encouragement. I've also received an
            offlist note from old buddy Kevin Johnson that I'll answer here.
            It involves the Coptic translation of Lk 11:28 that Kevin was
            good enough to look up and pass along to me. (It was an
            attachment to his note that would have been stripped off by
            Yahoogroups, so he had to send it offlist.) Unfortunately, I was
            unable to decipher the font used, so I turned to the St. Shenouda
            the Archimandrite Coptic Society CD-rom that's been mentioned
            here before.

            The short answer to the question of how Lk 11:28 was translated
            in ancient Sahidic is that it _does_ contain an equivalent of the
            conjunction 'and', though not the word 'and' itself. The Coptic
            reads as follows:

            "More blessed are they who listen to the word of God
            which (or who) keep it."

            The basic relevant difference between the Sahidic translation
            of Lk 11:28 and GTh 79.2 is this:

            Lk 11:28 -- ET-ARE2 (which keep)
            GTh79.2 -- AY-ARE2 (they [have] kept)

            This confirms the subtle but significant difference between these
            parallels, which is unfortunately hidden by harmonizing translations.
            (There are other differences, but this one is mostly ignored.)

            Mike Grondin
            Mt. Clemens, MI
          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.