Re: [GTh] Historicity of Paul (was Newbie in the Blogosphere) Corinth and the source of the writings
- Hi John,
It is late in Seattle; but one more post and a glass of good wine
to end the evening.
The person who wrote the long section of 1 Corinthians below
did not get this teaching from Jesus as he claims in verse 23. What
we read here is how the Roman solders in the second and third
centuries worshipped and celebrated their god Mithra. They
enjoyed a communal meal and they partook of bread and wine,
symbols of Mithra's flesh and blood.
This is not from or about a good Jew named Jesus. He taught
no such things. It would have been repugnant to him and it
would have been contrary to all of his religious beliefs.
That means that gospels of Mark, Matthew, and Luke have been
terribly corrupted. Along with Acts.
(1 Cor 11:20 KJV) When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.
(21) For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken.
(22) What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not.
(23) For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:
(24) And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
(25) After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
(26) For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do show the Lord's death till he come.
(27) Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
(28) But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
(29) For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
(30) For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
(32) For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
(32) But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.
(33) Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another.
(34) And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 11:03 PM
Subject: Re: [GTh] Historicity of Paul (was Newbie in the Blogosphere) Corinth and the source of the writings
In a message dated 3/2/07 11:40:59 PM, drosemont@... writes:
> ***** That is my whole entire point. Those were the same temporal morays of
> the time when Jesus had his ministry, yet he didn't say women had to be
> subservient, stay silent, keep their hair long, etc.
These temporal morays were determined by the pagan worships in and around
Greek pottery shows that hetaerae ('companions') often wore a headdress
shaped like a horn-of-plenty, even if they wore nothing else but sandals
This is only one example of the elaborate headdress worn in Corinth by the
These were in service to the goddess Aphrodite and were sanctioned by even
the best families for the favor of the temple and goddess.
The writings to Corinth are highly influenced by separation out the pagan
influences on the emerging church specifically to Corinth.
This was merely one of them. Instead of up on the head (As the companions)
Paul merely calls for an abandonment of Past and present culture and states a
better way for the church to conduct business.
In its place he suggests:
Philo (De Specialibus Legibus 3.56), a first century Alexandrian Jew,and
Philosopher, describes the head-covering (epikranon) as "the symbol of modesty,
regularly worn by women who are wholly innocent"; and it is related that a
certain woman named Qimchith, who was the high priest's mother, was always veiled,
even in the house (Oepke in Kittel 1965, 3:562, citing Strack and Billerbeck
It would appear that Paul is merely stating to give the outward appearance of
modesty and goodness (In contrast to the Temple priestesses)
Zinserling's work contains nine illustrations of Greek hetaerae (i.e.,
'companions') taken mostly from Greek pottery; these show thirteen women and date
from the sixth to the fourth century B.C. Of these one is bareheaded, six are
wearing headbands and six are wearing a special type of headdress shaped
something like a horn-of-plenty. The one who is bareheaded has nothing else on
either. In fact, of the six hetaerae wearing the horn-shaped headdress, that is all
that four of them have on except for sandals. It would seem that rather than
the lack of a headdress marking prostitutes, it was the presence of a special
"horn-shaped" headdress that helped identify them.
Women in such head wear in the Christian service were a disruption, it
represented the goddess, and these companions were said to "Speak for the
Goddess",like prophets of Yahweh did.
They had power especially when the church wasn't meeting and the normal day
to day life was going on.
as for silence?
Women often served as priestesses and prophetesses in Greek religion. The
most famous oracle in all Greece was the one at Delphi, the "earth's navel"
(Euripides Ion line 6). But the prophet there was a woman, a prophetess (cf.
Euripides Ion lines 42, 91, 321). In describing that oracle, Plutarch (Moralia, The
Oracles at Delphi 405c-d [§23]) tells that a maiden became a prophetic
priestess. At times there was more than one prophetess there, but Plutarch (Moralia,
Obsolescence of Oracles 414b [§8]) states that there was only one priestess
atDelphi in his time. With this in mind, the reader can understand why in a
section on prophecy and speaking in tongues, Paul found it necessary to discuss
the principle which the churches followed about women keeping silent in the
Delphi was not the only oracle in the ancient world
Corinth also had an Oracle of Apollo and is not far from
Adjacent to the Sacred Lake, was the place where the god was born. In Corinth
, the Oracle of Corinth came from the town of Tenea, from prisoners
supposedly taken in the Trojan War
Temple of Apollo.
statue of Apollo and a little further on a fountain named for
Glauke. For it was into this fountain that she threw herself, as
they say, believing that its water would cure Medea's poisons.
Beyond this fountain has also been constructed what is known as
the Odeion. Beside it is a memorial to the sons of Medea.... [2.3.7]
In response to the god's oracle, they (the Corinthians) established
annual sacrifices to them and a monument of Terror was erected.
This in fact still survives to our day, an image of a woman of
dreadful appearance.... [2.4.1
So as you can see, it may have been a mistake to apply this to the entire
Because it is written specifically to issues in Corinth (Alone).
That this proves any problem with women in general is not supported by
Likely you would also have trouble rationalizing a society that could produce
A ritual prostitution for their goddess, as a part of normal life.
However that is the way it was.
Springfield <Tenn. 37172
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