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RE: [GTh] Copyright Infringement

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  • Judy Redman
    Mike, I agree that you probably need to get a lawyer to write a letter, but a less expensive and potentially more effective way to go might be to alert Brill,
    Message 1 of 14 , Jan 19, 2007
      Mike,

      I agree that you probably need to get a lawyer to write a letter, but a less
      expensive and potentially more effective way to go might be to alert Brill,
      who are likely to be concerned about an unauthorised use of the Lambdin
      translation. From the description, the author may well not have contacted
      you because he thought you'd refuse to have your name associated with this
      kind of work.

      Incidentally, I think that there was a Gary Hudson on the other Gospel of
      Thomas email list in the brief time that I belonged to it.

      Judy

      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: gthomas@yahoogroups.com
      > [mailto:gthomas@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Grondin
      > Sent: Saturday, 20 January 2007 6:57 AM
      > To: gthomas@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: Re: [GTh] Copyright Infringement
      >
      > Hi Rick-
      >
      > No, I haven't seen the contents of the book.
      > This is the first I've heard of it. It was apparently
      > published just recently, and is already on deep discount. (So
      > much for the monetary value of my name and work, I guess :-)
      > I have in mind to contact Amazon later tonight to try to get
      > them to withdraw it.
      >
      > Mike
      >
      >
      >
      > --------------------------------------------------------------
      > ----------
      > Gospel of Thomas Homepage: http://home.epix.net/~miser17/Thomas.html
      > Interlinear translation:
      > http://www.geocities.com/mwgrondin/x_transl.htm
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
    • Tom Hickcox
      ... I do not believe one has to order the book in order to write a review. I do believe you have to be registered with Amazon, but if you ever bought a book
      Message 2 of 14 , Jan 19, 2007
        At 17:02 1/19/2007 , Rick Hubbard wrote:

        >Gee, there is certainly a lot of sensible advice from folks on this
        >outrageous situation, all of which could be pursued. In any case, what ever
        >steps you take, and in whatever sequence you take those steps, I assure you
        >it is best to take action immediately.
        >
        >The advice to post a "review" of the book on the Amazon is especially
        >intriguing. I'll order a copy and submit the first "review."
        >
        >If anyone else wants to look at the thing so they can submit their own
        >"review", contact me off-list and I'll figure out a way to ship it to you.

        I do not believe one has to order the book in order to write a review. I
        do believe you have to be registered with Amazon, but if you ever bought a
        book from them, you are likely registered.

        Just now I went and after clicking a couple of places, was offered a form
        on which to type a review. I do not know if they screen these.

        Tom Hickcox
      • Michael Grondin
        Latest news on this front is that Gary Hudson has responded in timely fashion to my notes to Vesica Press. Among other things, he indirectly reminded me that -
        Message 3 of 14 , Jan 20, 2007
          Latest news on this front is that Gary Hudson has
          responded in timely fashion to my notes to Vesica
          Press. Among other things, he indirectly reminded
          me that - contrary to my statement in an earlier
          note - we _had_ been in contact a year and a half
          ago on this very issue.

          Although I didn't recall it, we did in fact have a brief
          exchange back on June 28, 2005. Judy's memory is
          correct that back then she and I and Gary were active
          on the GospelofThomas list. Soon after I had had an
          exchange with him on that list, he sent me a note
          requesting permission to use my "GoT translations"
          in a "forthcoming book". My complete reply to him
          was as follows:
          -----------------------------------------------------------------------
          The only "translation" that's mine is the word-for-word
          translation that appears under each Coptic line. I've
          never done a translation other than that. The translation
          up top of each saying is Lambdin's. I'm not sure how
          one could use the word-for-word by itself, since in a lot
          of places it's awkward, or needs explanation for other
          reasons (such as that Coptic had no true passive voice).
          Some folks have used the word-for-word for the purpose
          of checking their own translations, and you can see how
          they worded their acknowledgements at
          http://www.geocities.com/Athens/9068/z_transl.htm
          ("Notices in Print"). You can do that too, if you want.
          As for quoting the word-for-word in the body of a book,
          though, I'd have serious doubts whether that's a good
          thing to do.
          -------------------- (end quote) ----------------------------------

          Mr. Hudson now says that he took these comments to
          be "tacit approval" of some sort or other, though he
          admits he might have misunderstood. Indeed. At any rate,
          I'll leave it at that for now, since I'm in communication with
          him, but I did want to correct my one misstatement and fill
          in some background information that casts the situation in
          a somewhat different light.

          Mike
        • Judy Redman
          So Mike, you now know that if anyone emails you in future about using your work in a forthcoming book, you should be more careful about how you reply and ask
          Message 4 of 14 , Jan 20, 2007
            So Mike, you now know that if anyone emails you in future about using your
            work in a forthcoming book, you should be more careful about how you reply
            and ask some questions about how it is going to be used and on the basis of
            that put restrictions on how it needs to be acknowledged (or whether you're
            happy to have it used in that way at all).

            Your interlinear *is* very useful, and it's quite likely that other people
            might well want to use it for similar purposes to Hudson, in the same way
            that a large number of Christians who have no Greek use interlinears. In
            other words, some people use them to help them understand what people who do
            know Greek well are saying, while others use them to validate creative
            theories about the meaning of the text. You may get more such requests

            My impression of many of the people on the GospelofThomas list is that they
            are enthusiastic amateurs, many of whom are looking at the text as
            Scripture, something on which to base how they live their lives. If Hudson
            has, indeed, decided to publish his own book, or is using a publishing
            company owned/run an equally naive friend, this is probably a genuine
            mistake. Which doesn't, of course, remove the problem that your text has
            been published as part of a book which probably contains material with which
            you would prefer not to be associated. Maybe an erratum to be included with
            the rest of the print run?

            I will be interested to see what Rick makes of his copy when it arrives.
            You *are* going to review it for us, aren't you, Rick?

            Judy



            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: gthomas@yahoogroups.com
            > [mailto:gthomas@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Grondin
            > Sent: Sunday, 21 January 2007 3:42 PM
            > To: gthomas@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: Re: [GTh] Copyright Infringement
            >
            > Latest news on this front is that Gary Hudson has responded
            > in timely fashion to my notes to Vesica Press. Among other
            > things, he indirectly reminded me that - contrary to my
            > statement in an earlier note - we _had_ been in contact a
            > year and a half ago on this very issue.
            >
            > Although I didn't recall it, we did in fact have a brief
            > exchange back on June 28, 2005. Judy's memory is correct that
            > back then she and I and Gary were active on the
            > GospelofThomas list. Soon after I had had an exchange with
            > him on that list, he sent me a note requesting permission to
            > use my "GoT translations"
            > in a "forthcoming book". My complete reply to him was as follows:
            > --------------------------------------------------------------
            > ---------
            > The only "translation" that's mine is the word-for-word
            > translation that appears under each Coptic line. I've never
            > done a translation other than that. The translation up top of
            > each saying is Lambdin's. I'm not sure how one could use the
            > word-for-word by itself, since in a lot of places it's
            > awkward, or needs explanation for other reasons (such as that
            > Coptic had no true passive voice).
            > Some folks have used the word-for-word for the purpose of
            > checking their own translations, and you can see how they
            > worded their acknowledgements at
            > http://www.geocities.com/Athens/9068/z_transl.htm
            > ("Notices in Print"). You can do that too, if you want.
            > As for quoting the word-for-word in the body of a book,
            > though, I'd have serious doubts whether that's a good thing to do.
            > -------------------- (end quote) ----------------------------------
            >
            > Mr. Hudson now says that he took these comments to be "tacit
            > approval" of some sort or other, though he admits he might
            > have misunderstood. Indeed. At any rate, I'll leave it at
            > that for now, since I'm in communication with him, but I did
            > want to correct my one misstatement and fill in some
            > background information that casts the situation in a somewhat
            > different light.
            >
            > Mike
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > --------------------------------------------------------------
            > ----------
            > Gospel of Thomas Homepage: http://home.epix.net/~miser17/Thomas.html
            > Interlinear translation:
            > http://www.geocities.com/mwgrondin/x_transl.htm
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
          • Rick Hubbard
            Judy wrote: I will be interested to see what Rick makes of his copy when it arrives. You *are* going to review it for us, aren t you, Rick? Yep. Soon as it
            Message 5 of 14 , Jan 21, 2007
              Judy wrote:

              I will be interested to see what Rick makes of his copy when it arrives.
              You *are* going to review it for us, aren't you, Rick?

              Yep. Soon as it comes.

              Rick


              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: gthomas@yahoogroups.com
              > [mailto:gthomas@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Grondin
              > Sent: Sunday, 21 January 2007 3:42 PM
              > To: gthomas@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: Re: [GTh] Copyright Infringement
              >
              > Latest news on this front is that Gary Hudson has responded
              > in timely fashion to my notes to Vesica Press. Among other
              > things, he indirectly reminded me that - contrary to my
              > statement in an earlier note - we _had_ been in contact a
              > year and a half ago on this very issue.
              >
              > Although I didn't recall it, we did in fact have a brief
              > exchange back on June 28, 2005. Judy's memory is correct that
              > back then she and I and Gary were active on the
              > GospelofThomas list. Soon after I had had an exchange with
              > him on that list, he sent me a note requesting permission to
              > use my "GoT translations"
              > in a "forthcoming book". My complete reply to him was as follows:
              > --------------------------------------------------------------
              > ---------
              > The only "translation" that's mine is the word-for-word
              > translation that appears under each Coptic line. I've never
              > done a translation other than that. The translation up top of
              > each saying is Lambdin's. I'm not sure how one could use the
              > word-for-word by itself, since in a lot of places it's
              > awkward, or needs explanation for other reasons (such as that
              > Coptic had no true passive voice).
              > Some folks have used the word-for-word for the purpose of
              > checking their own translations, and you can see how they
              > worded their acknowledgements at
              > http://www.geocities.com/Athens/9068/z_transl.htm
              > ("Notices in Print"). You can do that too, if you want.
              > As for quoting the word-for-word in the body of a book,
              > though, I'd have serious doubts whether that's a good thing to do.
              > -------------------- (end quote) ----------------------------------
              >
              > Mr. Hudson now says that he took these comments to be "tacit
              > approval" of some sort or other, though he admits he might
              > have misunderstood. Indeed. At any rate, I'll leave it at
              > that for now, since I'm in communication with him, but I did
              > want to correct my one misstatement and fill in some
              > background information that casts the situation in a somewhat
              > different light.
              >
              > Mike
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > --------------------------------------------------------------
              > ----------
              > Gospel of Thomas Homepage: http://home.epix.net/~miser17/Thomas.html
              > Interlinear translation:
              > http://www.geocities.com/mwgrondin/x_transl.htm
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >



              ------------------------------------------------------------------------
              Gospel of Thomas Homepage: http://home.epix.net/~miser17/Thomas.html
              Interlinear translation: http://www.geocities.com/mwgrondin/x_transl.htm

              Yahoo! Groups Links
            • Michael Grondin
              ... Just to let you know, Judy, that I m also getting a copy of this book in the near future. (I was advised that I should do that before taking any further
              Message 6 of 14 , Jan 22, 2007
                [Judy wrote]:
                > I will be interested to see what Rick makes of his
                > copy when it arrives.

                Just to let you know, Judy, that I'm also getting a copy of
                this book in the near future. (I was advised that I should do
                that before taking any further action.) Two copies, in fact,
                since I first ordered it from Amazon, then Gary Hudson
                said he would send me a copy - alas too late to cancel
                my Amazon order. So sometime late this week or early
                next, Rick and I can compare impressions.

                Best,
                Mike
              • Paul Lanier
                Hi Judy, A couple of thoughts based on the Business Law class I took last year. An attorney should be consulted but this is my understanding. A contractual
                Message 7 of 14 , Jan 22, 2007
                  Hi Judy,

                  A couple of thoughts based on the Business Law class I took last year. An attorney should be consulted but this is my understanding.

                  A contractual agreement does not exist unless both parties agree to specifics. If a contract is vague it cannot be enforced. Moreover both sides must receive something of value in order for a contract to exist. The safest way to respond to an offer may be to ignore it. In that case there is no contract.

                  If one gives something to another without compensation, it's a gift and it must have been given without any doubt. The mere claim that the recipient thought it was a gift is insufficient.

                  Finally, in the absence of a specific agreement, copyright is always retained by the author.

                  regards, Paul


                  ----- Original Message ----
                  From: Judy Redman <jredman@...>
                  To: gthomas@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 11:21:11 PM
                  Subject: RE: [GTh] Copyright Infringement

                  So Mike, you now know that if anyone emails you in future about using your
                  work in a forthcoming book, you should be more careful about how you reply
                  and ask some questions about how it is going to be used and on the basis of
                  that put restrictions on how it needs to be acknowledged (or whether you're
                  happy to have it used in that way at all).

                  Your interlinear *is* very useful, and it's quite likely that other people
                  might well want to use it for similar purposes to Hudson, in the same way
                  that a large number of Christians who have no Greek use interlinears. In
                  other words, some people use them to help them understand what people who do
                  know Greek well are saying, while others use them to validate creative
                  theories about the meaning of the text. You may get more such requests

                  My impression of many of the people on the GospelofThomas list is that they
                  are enthusiastic amateurs, many of whom are looking at the text as
                  Scripture, something on which to base how they live their lives. If Hudson
                  has, indeed, decided to publish his own book, or is using a publishing
                  company owned/run an equally naive friend, this is probably a genuine
                  mistake. Which doesn't, of course, remove the problem that your text has
                  been published as part of a book which probably contains material with which
                  you would prefer not to be associated. Maybe an erratum to be included with
                  the rest of the print run?

                  I will be interested to see what Rick makes of his copy when it arrives.
                  You *are* going to review it for us, aren't you, Rick?

                  Judy

                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: gthomas@yahoogroups .com
                  > [mailto:gthomas@yahoogroups .com] On Behalf Of Michael Grondin
                  > Sent: Sunday, 21 January 2007 3:42 PM
                  > To: gthomas@yahoogroups .com
                  > Subject: Re: [GTh] Copyright Infringement
                  >
                  > Latest news on this front is that Gary Hudson has responded
                  > in timely fashion to my notes to Vesica Press. Among other
                  > things, he indirectly reminded me that - contrary to my
                  > statement in an earlier note - we _had_ been in contact a
                  > year and a half ago on this very issue.
                  >
                  > Although I didn't recall it, we did in fact have a brief
                  > exchange back on June 28, 2005. Judy's memory is correct that
                  > back then she and I and Gary were active on the
                  > GospelofThomas list. Soon after I had had an exchange with
                  > him on that list, he sent me a note requesting permission to
                  > use my "GoT translations"
                  > in a "forthcoming book". My complete reply to him was as follows:
                  > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
                  > ---------
                  > The only "translation" that's mine is the word-for-word
                  > translation that appears under each Coptic line. I've never
                  > done a translation other than that. The translation up top of
                  > each saying is Lambdin's. I'm not sure how one could use the
                  > word-for-word by itself, since in a lot of places it's
                  > awkward, or needs explanation for other reasons (such as that
                  > Coptic had no true passive voice).
                  > Some folks have used the word-for-word for the purpose of
                  > checking their own translations, and you can see how they
                  > worded their acknowledgements at
                  > http://www.geocitie s.com/Athens/ 9068/z_transl. htm
                  > ("Notices in Print"). You can do that too, if you want.
                  > As for quoting the word-for-word in the body of a book,
                  > though, I'd have serious doubts whether that's a good thing to do.
                  > ------------ -------- (end quote) ------------ --------- --------- ----
                  >
                  > Mr. Hudson now says that he took these comments to be "tacit
                  > approval" of some sort or other, though he admits he might
                  > have misunderstood. Indeed. At any rate, I'll leave it at
                  > that for now, since I'm in communication with him, but I did
                  > want to correct my one misstatement and fill in some
                  > background information that casts the situation in a somewhat
                  > different light.
                  >
                  > Mike
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
                  > ----------
                  > Gospel of Thomas Homepage: http://home. epix.net/ ~miser17/ Thomas.html
                  > Interlinear translation:
                  > http://www.geocitie s.com/mwgrondin/ x_transl. htm
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >






                  ____________________________________________________________________________________
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                  in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.
                  http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545367

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Ron McCann
                  ... You can consent to, or waive a copyright infringement without any consideration being offered, accepted or exchanged. No contract need be involved. Ron
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jan 22, 2007
                    At 09:41 PM 22/01/07, Paul wrote:

                    >Hi Judy,
                    >
                    >A couple of thoughts based on the Business Law class I took last
                    >year. An attorney should be consulted but this is my understanding.
                    >
                    >A contractual agreement does not exist unless both parties agree to
                    >specifics. If a contract is vague it cannot be enforced. Moreover
                    >both sides must receive something of value in order for a contract
                    >to exist. The safest way to respond to an offer may be to ignore it.
                    >In that case there is no contract.
                    >
                    >If one gives something to another without compensation, it's a gift
                    >and it must have been given without any doubt. The mere claim that
                    >the recipient thought it was a gift is insufficient.
                    >
                    >Finally, in the absence of a specific agreement, copyright is always
                    >retained by the author.
                    >
                    >regards, Paul

                    You can consent to, or waive a copyright infringement without
                    any"consideration"
                    being offered, accepted or exchanged. No contract need be involved.

                    Ron McCann
                    Barrister & Solicitor
                    (Retired).
                  • Judy Redman
                    Paul, I m not a lawyer and I live in Australia, so I don t want to venture an opinion about US copyright law, but what is legal and what is sensible are
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jan 22, 2007
                      Paul,

                      I'm not a lawyer and I live in Australia, so I don't want to venture an
                      opinion about US copyright law, but what is legal and what is sensible are
                      sometimes two different things.

                      Because Mike isn't (as far as I know) earning any money from his
                      interlinear, taking legal action against people who use it inappropriately
                      is a nuisance and at one level probably not worth the bother. At another
                      level, it is quite likely that his work is now in published form in a book
                      that contains interpretations of Thomas with which he doesn't want to be
                      associated and while (as I understand it) he isn't a professional Thomas
                      scholar, he still values his good name within the scholarly community. We
                      all know the background, but there are Thomas scholars not on this list (!)
                      who might well pick up Hudson's book, decide it's very lightweight and
                      therefore make a wrong judgement about Mike for agreeing to have his
                      interlinear published in it.

                      In the situation at the time, simply ignoring the email would have come
                      across as rude and arrogant. It would have been better if, when Hudson
                      initially posed his question, Mike had said something like "I'm not happy to
                      have the interlinear published without my seeing the text with which it's
                      going to be associated. Feel free to point people to the URL, though, and
                      they can download it with my blessing." Instead, he let his natural modesty
                      lead the way and he said something that was a bit vague and was
                      misinterpreted and he is now in an awkward situation, even if he has the law
                      on his side.

                      Judy

                      --
                      Rev Judy Redman
                      Uniting Church Chaplain
                      University of New England
                      Armidale 2351 Australia
                      ph: +61 2 6773 3739
                      fax: +61 2 6773 3749
                      web: http://www.une.edu.au/chaplaincy/uniting/
                      email: jredman@...



                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: gthomas@yahoogroups.com
                      > [mailto:gthomas@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul Lanier
                      > Sent: Tuesday, 23 January 2007 2:42 PM
                      > To: gthomas@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: Re: [GTh] Copyright Infringement
                      >
                      > Hi Judy,
                      >
                      > A couple of thoughts based on the Business Law class I took
                      > last year. An attorney should be consulted but this is my
                      > understanding.
                      >
                      > A contractual agreement does not exist unless both parties
                      > agree to specifics. If a contract is vague it cannot be
                      > enforced. Moreover both sides must receive something of value
                      > in order for a contract to exist. The safest way to respond
                      > to an offer may be to ignore it. In that case there is no contract.
                      >
                      > If one gives something to another without compensation, it's
                      > a gift and it must have been given without any doubt. The
                      > mere claim that the recipient thought it was a gift is insufficient.
                      >
                      > Finally, in the absence of a specific agreement, copyright is
                      > always retained by the author.
                      >
                      > regards, Paul
                      >
                      >
                      > ----- Original Message ----
                      > From: Judy Redman <jredman@...>
                      > To: gthomas@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 11:21:11 PM
                      > Subject: RE: [GTh] Copyright Infringement
                      >
                      > So Mike, you now know that if anyone emails you in future
                      > about using your work in a forthcoming book, you should be
                      > more careful about how you reply and ask some questions about
                      > how it is going to be used and on the basis of that put
                      > restrictions on how it needs to be acknowledged (or whether
                      > you're happy to have it used in that way at all).
                      >
                      > Your interlinear *is* very useful, and it's quite likely that
                      > other people might well want to use it for similar purposes
                      > to Hudson, in the same way that a large number of Christians
                      > who have no Greek use interlinears. In other words, some
                      > people use them to help them understand what people who do
                      > know Greek well are saying, while others use them to validate
                      > creative theories about the meaning of the text. You may get
                      > more such requests
                      >
                      > My impression of many of the people on the GospelofThomas
                      > list is that they are enthusiastic amateurs, many of whom are
                      > looking at the text as Scripture, something on which to base
                      > how they live their lives. If Hudson has, indeed, decided to
                      > publish his own book, or is using a publishing company
                      > owned/run an equally naive friend, this is probably a genuine
                      > mistake. Which doesn't, of course, remove the problem that
                      > your text has been published as part of a book which probably
                      > contains material with which you would prefer not to be
                      > associated. Maybe an erratum to be included with the rest of
                      > the print run?
                      >
                      > I will be interested to see what Rick makes of his copy when
                      > it arrives.
                      > You *are* going to review it for us, aren't you, Rick?
                      >
                      > Judy
                      >
                      > > -----Original Message-----
                      > > From: gthomas@yahoogroups .com
                      > > [mailto:gthomas@yahoogroups .com] On Behalf Of Michael Grondin
                      > > Sent: Sunday, 21 January 2007 3:42 PM
                      > > To: gthomas@yahoogroups .com
                      > > Subject: Re: [GTh] Copyright Infringement
                      > >
                      > > Latest news on this front is that Gary Hudson has responded
                      > in timely
                      > > fashion to my notes to Vesica Press. Among other things, he
                      > indirectly
                      > > reminded me that - contrary to my statement in an earlier note - we
                      > > _had_ been in contact a year and a half ago on this very issue.
                      > >
                      > > Although I didn't recall it, we did in fact have a brief
                      > exchange back
                      > > on June 28, 2005. Judy's memory is correct that back then she and I
                      > > and Gary were active on the GospelofThomas list. Soon after
                      > I had had
                      > > an exchange with him on that list, he sent me a note requesting
                      > > permission to use my "GoT translations"
                      > > in a "forthcoming book". My complete reply to him was as follows:
                      > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
                      > > ---------
                      > > The only "translation" that's mine is the word-for-word translation
                      > > that appears under each Coptic line. I've never done a translation
                      > > other than that. The translation up top of each saying is
                      > Lambdin's.
                      > > I'm not sure how one could use the word-for-word by itself,
                      > since in a
                      > > lot of places it's awkward, or needs explanation for other reasons
                      > > (such as that Coptic had no true passive voice).
                      > > Some folks have used the word-for-word for the purpose of checking
                      > > their own translations, and you can see how they worded their
                      > > acknowledgements at http://www.geocitie s.com/Athens/
                      > 9068/z_transl.
                      > > htm ("Notices in Print"). You can do that too, if you want.
                      > > As for quoting the word-for-word in the body of a book, though, I'd
                      > > have serious doubts whether that's a good thing to do.
                      > > ------------ -------- (end quote) ------------ --------- ---------
                      > > ----
                      > >
                      > > Mr. Hudson now says that he took these comments to be
                      > "tacit approval"
                      > > of some sort or other, though he admits he might have
                      > misunderstood.
                      > > Indeed. At any rate, I'll leave it at that for now, since I'm in
                      > > communication with him, but I did want to correct my one
                      > misstatement
                      > > and fill in some background information that casts the
                      > situation in a
                      > > somewhat different light.
                      > >
                      > > Mike
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
                      > > ----------
                      > > Gospel of Thomas Homepage: http://home. epix.net/ ~miser17/
                      > > Thomas.html Interlinear translation:
                      > > http://www.geocitie s.com/mwgrondin/ x_transl. htm
                      > >
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                      > --------------------------------------------------------------
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                      > Gospel of Thomas Homepage: http://home.epix.net/~miser17/Thomas.html
                      > Interlinear translation:
                      > http://www.geocities.com/mwgrondin/x_transl.htm
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                    • Michael Grondin
                      Hi Judy, ... Not a dime. ... Exactly so. ... On the up side, Gary Hudson tells me that only one copy had been sold at the time he wrote. Evidently, Rick and I
                      Message 10 of 14 , Jan 22, 2007
                        Hi Judy,
                        Some responses to your latest note:

                        > Because Mike isn't (as far as I know) earning
                        > any money from his interlinear ...

                        Not a dime.

                        > ... it is quite likely that [Mike's] work is now in published
                        > form in a book that contains interpretations of Thomas
                        > with which he doesn't want to be associated and while
                        > (as I understand it) he isn't a professional Thomas scholar,
                        > he still values his good name within the scholarly community.

                        Exactly so.

                        > We all know the background, but there are Thomas scholars
                        > not on this list (!) who might well pick up Hudson's book,
                        > decide it's very lightweight and therefore make a wrong
                        > judgement about Mike for agreeing to have his interlinear
                        > published in it.

                        On the up side, Gary Hudson tells me that only one copy
                        had been sold at the time he wrote. Evidently, Rick and I
                        have accounted for a 200% increase in sales! But yes,
                        whether I'm inclined to let it slide or not depends a lot on
                        what's in the book. I suspect I won't like it, but we'll see.

                        > It would have been better if, when Hudson initially posed
                        > his question, Mike had said something like "I'm not happy
                        > to have the interlinear published without my seeing the text
                        > with which it's going to be associated. ..." Instead, he let
                        > his natural modesty lead the way and he said something
                        > that was a bit vague and was misinterpreted ...

                        I look at it as realism, not modesty. I can see that what I
                        was thinking at the time I wrote the note wasn't whether
                        _Gary_ should publish the interlinear, but whether _anyone_
                        should publish it in current form. Maybe this confused him,
                        but when I concluded that I didn't think it was a good idea
                        in general, I thought that the implication of that for his
                        specific request was clear enough. In future, I'll shoot
                        down the request first and ask questions later!

                        Regards,
                        Mike
                      • Paul Lanier
                        Thanks Ron, What I m saying is that if you just ignore a request for use of material then use of the material cannot be considered by contract nor gift. It s
                        Message 11 of 14 , Jan 23, 2007
                          Thanks Ron,
                          What I'm saying is that if you just ignore a request for use of material then use of the material cannot be considered by contract nor gift. It's just theft :)
                          regards, Paul

                          ----- Original Message ----
                          From: Ron McCann <ronmccann1@...>
                          To: gthomas@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 8:58:12 PM
                          Subject: Re: [GTh] Copyright Infringement













                          At 09:41 PM 22/01/07, Paul wrote:



                          >Hi Judy,

                          >

                          >A couple of thoughts based on the Business Law class I took last

                          >year. An attorney should be consulted but this is my understanding.

                          >

                          >A contractual agreement does not exist unless both parties agree to

                          >specifics. If a contract is vague it cannot be enforced. Moreover

                          >both sides must receive something of value in order for a contract

                          >to exist. The safest way to respond to an offer may be to ignore it.

                          >In that case there is no contract.

                          >

                          >If one gives something to another without compensation, it's a gift

                          >and it must have been given without any doubt. The mere claim that

                          >the recipient thought it was a gift is insufficient.

                          >

                          >Finally, in the absence of a specific agreement, copyright is always

                          >retained by the author.

                          >

                          >regards, Paul



                          You can consent to, or waive a copyright infringement without

                          any"consideration"

                          being offered, accepted or exchanged. No contract need be involved.



                          Ron McCann

                          Barrister & Solicitor

                          (Retired).














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