Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [GTh] Copyright Infringement

Expand Messages
  • Michael Grondin
    Hi Rick- No, I haven t seen the contents of the book. This is the first I ve heard of it. It was apparently published just recently, and is already on deep
    Message 1 of 14 , Jan 19, 2007
    • 0 Attachment
      Hi Rick-

      No, I haven't seen the contents of the book.
      This is the first I've heard of it. It was apparently
      published just recently, and is already on deep
      discount. (So much for the monetary value of
      my name and work, I guess :-) I have in mind to
      contact Amazon later tonight to try to get them
      to withdraw it.

      Mike
    • Judy Redman
      Mike, I agree that you probably need to get a lawyer to write a letter, but a less expensive and potentially more effective way to go might be to alert Brill,
      Message 2 of 14 , Jan 19, 2007
      • 0 Attachment
        Mike,

        I agree that you probably need to get a lawyer to write a letter, but a less
        expensive and potentially more effective way to go might be to alert Brill,
        who are likely to be concerned about an unauthorised use of the Lambdin
        translation. From the description, the author may well not have contacted
        you because he thought you'd refuse to have your name associated with this
        kind of work.

        Incidentally, I think that there was a Gary Hudson on the other Gospel of
        Thomas email list in the brief time that I belonged to it.

        Judy

        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: gthomas@yahoogroups.com
        > [mailto:gthomas@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Grondin
        > Sent: Saturday, 20 January 2007 6:57 AM
        > To: gthomas@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [GTh] Copyright Infringement
        >
        > Hi Rick-
        >
        > No, I haven't seen the contents of the book.
        > This is the first I've heard of it. It was apparently
        > published just recently, and is already on deep discount. (So
        > much for the monetary value of my name and work, I guess :-)
        > I have in mind to contact Amazon later tonight to try to get
        > them to withdraw it.
        >
        > Mike
        >
        >
        >
        > --------------------------------------------------------------
        > ----------
        > Gospel of Thomas Homepage: http://home.epix.net/~miser17/Thomas.html
        > Interlinear translation:
        > http://www.geocities.com/mwgrondin/x_transl.htm
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
      • Tom Hickcox
        ... I do not believe one has to order the book in order to write a review. I do believe you have to be registered with Amazon, but if you ever bought a book
        Message 3 of 14 , Jan 19, 2007
        • 0 Attachment
          At 17:02 1/19/2007 , Rick Hubbard wrote:

          >Gee, there is certainly a lot of sensible advice from folks on this
          >outrageous situation, all of which could be pursued. In any case, what ever
          >steps you take, and in whatever sequence you take those steps, I assure you
          >it is best to take action immediately.
          >
          >The advice to post a "review" of the book on the Amazon is especially
          >intriguing. I'll order a copy and submit the first "review."
          >
          >If anyone else wants to look at the thing so they can submit their own
          >"review", contact me off-list and I'll figure out a way to ship it to you.

          I do not believe one has to order the book in order to write a review. I
          do believe you have to be registered with Amazon, but if you ever bought a
          book from them, you are likely registered.

          Just now I went and after clicking a couple of places, was offered a form
          on which to type a review. I do not know if they screen these.

          Tom Hickcox
        • Michael Grondin
          Latest news on this front is that Gary Hudson has responded in timely fashion to my notes to Vesica Press. Among other things, he indirectly reminded me that -
          Message 4 of 14 , Jan 20, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            Latest news on this front is that Gary Hudson has
            responded in timely fashion to my notes to Vesica
            Press. Among other things, he indirectly reminded
            me that - contrary to my statement in an earlier
            note - we _had_ been in contact a year and a half
            ago on this very issue.

            Although I didn't recall it, we did in fact have a brief
            exchange back on June 28, 2005. Judy's memory is
            correct that back then she and I and Gary were active
            on the GospelofThomas list. Soon after I had had an
            exchange with him on that list, he sent me a note
            requesting permission to use my "GoT translations"
            in a "forthcoming book". My complete reply to him
            was as follows:
            -----------------------------------------------------------------------
            The only "translation" that's mine is the word-for-word
            translation that appears under each Coptic line. I've
            never done a translation other than that. The translation
            up top of each saying is Lambdin's. I'm not sure how
            one could use the word-for-word by itself, since in a lot
            of places it's awkward, or needs explanation for other
            reasons (such as that Coptic had no true passive voice).
            Some folks have used the word-for-word for the purpose
            of checking their own translations, and you can see how
            they worded their acknowledgements at
            http://www.geocities.com/Athens/9068/z_transl.htm
            ("Notices in Print"). You can do that too, if you want.
            As for quoting the word-for-word in the body of a book,
            though, I'd have serious doubts whether that's a good
            thing to do.
            -------------------- (end quote) ----------------------------------

            Mr. Hudson now says that he took these comments to
            be "tacit approval" of some sort or other, though he
            admits he might have misunderstood. Indeed. At any rate,
            I'll leave it at that for now, since I'm in communication with
            him, but I did want to correct my one misstatement and fill
            in some background information that casts the situation in
            a somewhat different light.

            Mike
          • Judy Redman
            So Mike, you now know that if anyone emails you in future about using your work in a forthcoming book, you should be more careful about how you reply and ask
            Message 5 of 14 , Jan 20, 2007
            • 0 Attachment
              So Mike, you now know that if anyone emails you in future about using your
              work in a forthcoming book, you should be more careful about how you reply
              and ask some questions about how it is going to be used and on the basis of
              that put restrictions on how it needs to be acknowledged (or whether you're
              happy to have it used in that way at all).

              Your interlinear *is* very useful, and it's quite likely that other people
              might well want to use it for similar purposes to Hudson, in the same way
              that a large number of Christians who have no Greek use interlinears. In
              other words, some people use them to help them understand what people who do
              know Greek well are saying, while others use them to validate creative
              theories about the meaning of the text. You may get more such requests

              My impression of many of the people on the GospelofThomas list is that they
              are enthusiastic amateurs, many of whom are looking at the text as
              Scripture, something on which to base how they live their lives. If Hudson
              has, indeed, decided to publish his own book, or is using a publishing
              company owned/run an equally naive friend, this is probably a genuine
              mistake. Which doesn't, of course, remove the problem that your text has
              been published as part of a book which probably contains material with which
              you would prefer not to be associated. Maybe an erratum to be included with
              the rest of the print run?

              I will be interested to see what Rick makes of his copy when it arrives.
              You *are* going to review it for us, aren't you, Rick?

              Judy



              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: gthomas@yahoogroups.com
              > [mailto:gthomas@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Grondin
              > Sent: Sunday, 21 January 2007 3:42 PM
              > To: gthomas@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: Re: [GTh] Copyright Infringement
              >
              > Latest news on this front is that Gary Hudson has responded
              > in timely fashion to my notes to Vesica Press. Among other
              > things, he indirectly reminded me that - contrary to my
              > statement in an earlier note - we _had_ been in contact a
              > year and a half ago on this very issue.
              >
              > Although I didn't recall it, we did in fact have a brief
              > exchange back on June 28, 2005. Judy's memory is correct that
              > back then she and I and Gary were active on the
              > GospelofThomas list. Soon after I had had an exchange with
              > him on that list, he sent me a note requesting permission to
              > use my "GoT translations"
              > in a "forthcoming book". My complete reply to him was as follows:
              > --------------------------------------------------------------
              > ---------
              > The only "translation" that's mine is the word-for-word
              > translation that appears under each Coptic line. I've never
              > done a translation other than that. The translation up top of
              > each saying is Lambdin's. I'm not sure how one could use the
              > word-for-word by itself, since in a lot of places it's
              > awkward, or needs explanation for other reasons (such as that
              > Coptic had no true passive voice).
              > Some folks have used the word-for-word for the purpose of
              > checking their own translations, and you can see how they
              > worded their acknowledgements at
              > http://www.geocities.com/Athens/9068/z_transl.htm
              > ("Notices in Print"). You can do that too, if you want.
              > As for quoting the word-for-word in the body of a book,
              > though, I'd have serious doubts whether that's a good thing to do.
              > -------------------- (end quote) ----------------------------------
              >
              > Mr. Hudson now says that he took these comments to be "tacit
              > approval" of some sort or other, though he admits he might
              > have misunderstood. Indeed. At any rate, I'll leave it at
              > that for now, since I'm in communication with him, but I did
              > want to correct my one misstatement and fill in some
              > background information that casts the situation in a somewhat
              > different light.
              >
              > Mike
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > --------------------------------------------------------------
              > ----------
              > Gospel of Thomas Homepage: http://home.epix.net/~miser17/Thomas.html
              > Interlinear translation:
              > http://www.geocities.com/mwgrondin/x_transl.htm
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
            • Rick Hubbard
              Judy wrote: I will be interested to see what Rick makes of his copy when it arrives. You *are* going to review it for us, aren t you, Rick? Yep. Soon as it
              Message 6 of 14 , Jan 21, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                Judy wrote:

                I will be interested to see what Rick makes of his copy when it arrives.
                You *are* going to review it for us, aren't you, Rick?

                Yep. Soon as it comes.

                Rick


                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: gthomas@yahoogroups.com
                > [mailto:gthomas@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Grondin
                > Sent: Sunday, 21 January 2007 3:42 PM
                > To: gthomas@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: Re: [GTh] Copyright Infringement
                >
                > Latest news on this front is that Gary Hudson has responded
                > in timely fashion to my notes to Vesica Press. Among other
                > things, he indirectly reminded me that - contrary to my
                > statement in an earlier note - we _had_ been in contact a
                > year and a half ago on this very issue.
                >
                > Although I didn't recall it, we did in fact have a brief
                > exchange back on June 28, 2005. Judy's memory is correct that
                > back then she and I and Gary were active on the
                > GospelofThomas list. Soon after I had had an exchange with
                > him on that list, he sent me a note requesting permission to
                > use my "GoT translations"
                > in a "forthcoming book". My complete reply to him was as follows:
                > --------------------------------------------------------------
                > ---------
                > The only "translation" that's mine is the word-for-word
                > translation that appears under each Coptic line. I've never
                > done a translation other than that. The translation up top of
                > each saying is Lambdin's. I'm not sure how one could use the
                > word-for-word by itself, since in a lot of places it's
                > awkward, or needs explanation for other reasons (such as that
                > Coptic had no true passive voice).
                > Some folks have used the word-for-word for the purpose of
                > checking their own translations, and you can see how they
                > worded their acknowledgements at
                > http://www.geocities.com/Athens/9068/z_transl.htm
                > ("Notices in Print"). You can do that too, if you want.
                > As for quoting the word-for-word in the body of a book,
                > though, I'd have serious doubts whether that's a good thing to do.
                > -------------------- (end quote) ----------------------------------
                >
                > Mr. Hudson now says that he took these comments to be "tacit
                > approval" of some sort or other, though he admits he might
                > have misunderstood. Indeed. At any rate, I'll leave it at
                > that for now, since I'm in communication with him, but I did
                > want to correct my one misstatement and fill in some
                > background information that casts the situation in a somewhat
                > different light.
                >
                > Mike
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > --------------------------------------------------------------
                > ----------
                > Gospel of Thomas Homepage: http://home.epix.net/~miser17/Thomas.html
                > Interlinear translation:
                > http://www.geocities.com/mwgrondin/x_transl.htm
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >



                ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                Gospel of Thomas Homepage: http://home.epix.net/~miser17/Thomas.html
                Interlinear translation: http://www.geocities.com/mwgrondin/x_transl.htm

                Yahoo! Groups Links
              • Michael Grondin
                ... Just to let you know, Judy, that I m also getting a copy of this book in the near future. (I was advised that I should do that before taking any further
                Message 7 of 14 , Jan 22, 2007
                • 0 Attachment
                  [Judy wrote]:
                  > I will be interested to see what Rick makes of his
                  > copy when it arrives.

                  Just to let you know, Judy, that I'm also getting a copy of
                  this book in the near future. (I was advised that I should do
                  that before taking any further action.) Two copies, in fact,
                  since I first ordered it from Amazon, then Gary Hudson
                  said he would send me a copy - alas too late to cancel
                  my Amazon order. So sometime late this week or early
                  next, Rick and I can compare impressions.

                  Best,
                  Mike
                • Paul Lanier
                  Hi Judy, A couple of thoughts based on the Business Law class I took last year. An attorney should be consulted but this is my understanding. A contractual
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jan 22, 2007
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hi Judy,

                    A couple of thoughts based on the Business Law class I took last year. An attorney should be consulted but this is my understanding.

                    A contractual agreement does not exist unless both parties agree to specifics. If a contract is vague it cannot be enforced. Moreover both sides must receive something of value in order for a contract to exist. The safest way to respond to an offer may be to ignore it. In that case there is no contract.

                    If one gives something to another without compensation, it's a gift and it must have been given without any doubt. The mere claim that the recipient thought it was a gift is insufficient.

                    Finally, in the absence of a specific agreement, copyright is always retained by the author.

                    regards, Paul


                    ----- Original Message ----
                    From: Judy Redman <jredman@...>
                    To: gthomas@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 11:21:11 PM
                    Subject: RE: [GTh] Copyright Infringement

                    So Mike, you now know that if anyone emails you in future about using your
                    work in a forthcoming book, you should be more careful about how you reply
                    and ask some questions about how it is going to be used and on the basis of
                    that put restrictions on how it needs to be acknowledged (or whether you're
                    happy to have it used in that way at all).

                    Your interlinear *is* very useful, and it's quite likely that other people
                    might well want to use it for similar purposes to Hudson, in the same way
                    that a large number of Christians who have no Greek use interlinears. In
                    other words, some people use them to help them understand what people who do
                    know Greek well are saying, while others use them to validate creative
                    theories about the meaning of the text. You may get more such requests

                    My impression of many of the people on the GospelofThomas list is that they
                    are enthusiastic amateurs, many of whom are looking at the text as
                    Scripture, something on which to base how they live their lives. If Hudson
                    has, indeed, decided to publish his own book, or is using a publishing
                    company owned/run an equally naive friend, this is probably a genuine
                    mistake. Which doesn't, of course, remove the problem that your text has
                    been published as part of a book which probably contains material with which
                    you would prefer not to be associated. Maybe an erratum to be included with
                    the rest of the print run?

                    I will be interested to see what Rick makes of his copy when it arrives.
                    You *are* going to review it for us, aren't you, Rick?

                    Judy

                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: gthomas@yahoogroups .com
                    > [mailto:gthomas@yahoogroups .com] On Behalf Of Michael Grondin
                    > Sent: Sunday, 21 January 2007 3:42 PM
                    > To: gthomas@yahoogroups .com
                    > Subject: Re: [GTh] Copyright Infringement
                    >
                    > Latest news on this front is that Gary Hudson has responded
                    > in timely fashion to my notes to Vesica Press. Among other
                    > things, he indirectly reminded me that - contrary to my
                    > statement in an earlier note - we _had_ been in contact a
                    > year and a half ago on this very issue.
                    >
                    > Although I didn't recall it, we did in fact have a brief
                    > exchange back on June 28, 2005. Judy's memory is correct that
                    > back then she and I and Gary were active on the
                    > GospelofThomas list. Soon after I had had an exchange with
                    > him on that list, he sent me a note requesting permission to
                    > use my "GoT translations"
                    > in a "forthcoming book". My complete reply to him was as follows:
                    > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
                    > ---------
                    > The only "translation" that's mine is the word-for-word
                    > translation that appears under each Coptic line. I've never
                    > done a translation other than that. The translation up top of
                    > each saying is Lambdin's. I'm not sure how one could use the
                    > word-for-word by itself, since in a lot of places it's
                    > awkward, or needs explanation for other reasons (such as that
                    > Coptic had no true passive voice).
                    > Some folks have used the word-for-word for the purpose of
                    > checking their own translations, and you can see how they
                    > worded their acknowledgements at
                    > http://www.geocitie s.com/Athens/ 9068/z_transl. htm
                    > ("Notices in Print"). You can do that too, if you want.
                    > As for quoting the word-for-word in the body of a book,
                    > though, I'd have serious doubts whether that's a good thing to do.
                    > ------------ -------- (end quote) ------------ --------- --------- ----
                    >
                    > Mr. Hudson now says that he took these comments to be "tacit
                    > approval" of some sort or other, though he admits he might
                    > have misunderstood. Indeed. At any rate, I'll leave it at
                    > that for now, since I'm in communication with him, but I did
                    > want to correct my one misstatement and fill in some
                    > background information that casts the situation in a somewhat
                    > different light.
                    >
                    > Mike
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
                    > ----------
                    > Gospel of Thomas Homepage: http://home. epix.net/ ~miser17/ Thomas.html
                    > Interlinear translation:
                    > http://www.geocitie s.com/mwgrondin/ x_transl. htm
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >






                    ____________________________________________________________________________________
                    Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate
                    in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.
                    http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545367

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Ron McCann
                    ... You can consent to, or waive a copyright infringement without any consideration being offered, accepted or exchanged. No contract need be involved. Ron
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jan 22, 2007
                    • 0 Attachment
                      At 09:41 PM 22/01/07, Paul wrote:

                      >Hi Judy,
                      >
                      >A couple of thoughts based on the Business Law class I took last
                      >year. An attorney should be consulted but this is my understanding.
                      >
                      >A contractual agreement does not exist unless both parties agree to
                      >specifics. If a contract is vague it cannot be enforced. Moreover
                      >both sides must receive something of value in order for a contract
                      >to exist. The safest way to respond to an offer may be to ignore it.
                      >In that case there is no contract.
                      >
                      >If one gives something to another without compensation, it's a gift
                      >and it must have been given without any doubt. The mere claim that
                      >the recipient thought it was a gift is insufficient.
                      >
                      >Finally, in the absence of a specific agreement, copyright is always
                      >retained by the author.
                      >
                      >regards, Paul

                      You can consent to, or waive a copyright infringement without
                      any"consideration"
                      being offered, accepted or exchanged. No contract need be involved.

                      Ron McCann
                      Barrister & Solicitor
                      (Retired).
                    • Judy Redman
                      Paul, I m not a lawyer and I live in Australia, so I don t want to venture an opinion about US copyright law, but what is legal and what is sensible are
                      Message 10 of 14 , Jan 22, 2007
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Paul,

                        I'm not a lawyer and I live in Australia, so I don't want to venture an
                        opinion about US copyright law, but what is legal and what is sensible are
                        sometimes two different things.

                        Because Mike isn't (as far as I know) earning any money from his
                        interlinear, taking legal action against people who use it inappropriately
                        is a nuisance and at one level probably not worth the bother. At another
                        level, it is quite likely that his work is now in published form in a book
                        that contains interpretations of Thomas with which he doesn't want to be
                        associated and while (as I understand it) he isn't a professional Thomas
                        scholar, he still values his good name within the scholarly community. We
                        all know the background, but there are Thomas scholars not on this list (!)
                        who might well pick up Hudson's book, decide it's very lightweight and
                        therefore make a wrong judgement about Mike for agreeing to have his
                        interlinear published in it.

                        In the situation at the time, simply ignoring the email would have come
                        across as rude and arrogant. It would have been better if, when Hudson
                        initially posed his question, Mike had said something like "I'm not happy to
                        have the interlinear published without my seeing the text with which it's
                        going to be associated. Feel free to point people to the URL, though, and
                        they can download it with my blessing." Instead, he let his natural modesty
                        lead the way and he said something that was a bit vague and was
                        misinterpreted and he is now in an awkward situation, even if he has the law
                        on his side.

                        Judy

                        --
                        Rev Judy Redman
                        Uniting Church Chaplain
                        University of New England
                        Armidale 2351 Australia
                        ph: +61 2 6773 3739
                        fax: +61 2 6773 3749
                        web: http://www.une.edu.au/chaplaincy/uniting/
                        email: jredman@...



                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: gthomas@yahoogroups.com
                        > [mailto:gthomas@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul Lanier
                        > Sent: Tuesday, 23 January 2007 2:42 PM
                        > To: gthomas@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: Re: [GTh] Copyright Infringement
                        >
                        > Hi Judy,
                        >
                        > A couple of thoughts based on the Business Law class I took
                        > last year. An attorney should be consulted but this is my
                        > understanding.
                        >
                        > A contractual agreement does not exist unless both parties
                        > agree to specifics. If a contract is vague it cannot be
                        > enforced. Moreover both sides must receive something of value
                        > in order for a contract to exist. The safest way to respond
                        > to an offer may be to ignore it. In that case there is no contract.
                        >
                        > If one gives something to another without compensation, it's
                        > a gift and it must have been given without any doubt. The
                        > mere claim that the recipient thought it was a gift is insufficient.
                        >
                        > Finally, in the absence of a specific agreement, copyright is
                        > always retained by the author.
                        >
                        > regards, Paul
                        >
                        >
                        > ----- Original Message ----
                        > From: Judy Redman <jredman@...>
                        > To: gthomas@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 11:21:11 PM
                        > Subject: RE: [GTh] Copyright Infringement
                        >
                        > So Mike, you now know that if anyone emails you in future
                        > about using your work in a forthcoming book, you should be
                        > more careful about how you reply and ask some questions about
                        > how it is going to be used and on the basis of that put
                        > restrictions on how it needs to be acknowledged (or whether
                        > you're happy to have it used in that way at all).
                        >
                        > Your interlinear *is* very useful, and it's quite likely that
                        > other people might well want to use it for similar purposes
                        > to Hudson, in the same way that a large number of Christians
                        > who have no Greek use interlinears. In other words, some
                        > people use them to help them understand what people who do
                        > know Greek well are saying, while others use them to validate
                        > creative theories about the meaning of the text. You may get
                        > more such requests
                        >
                        > My impression of many of the people on the GospelofThomas
                        > list is that they are enthusiastic amateurs, many of whom are
                        > looking at the text as Scripture, something on which to base
                        > how they live their lives. If Hudson has, indeed, decided to
                        > publish his own book, or is using a publishing company
                        > owned/run an equally naive friend, this is probably a genuine
                        > mistake. Which doesn't, of course, remove the problem that
                        > your text has been published as part of a book which probably
                        > contains material with which you would prefer not to be
                        > associated. Maybe an erratum to be included with the rest of
                        > the print run?
                        >
                        > I will be interested to see what Rick makes of his copy when
                        > it arrives.
                        > You *are* going to review it for us, aren't you, Rick?
                        >
                        > Judy
                        >
                        > > -----Original Message-----
                        > > From: gthomas@yahoogroups .com
                        > > [mailto:gthomas@yahoogroups .com] On Behalf Of Michael Grondin
                        > > Sent: Sunday, 21 January 2007 3:42 PM
                        > > To: gthomas@yahoogroups .com
                        > > Subject: Re: [GTh] Copyright Infringement
                        > >
                        > > Latest news on this front is that Gary Hudson has responded
                        > in timely
                        > > fashion to my notes to Vesica Press. Among other things, he
                        > indirectly
                        > > reminded me that - contrary to my statement in an earlier note - we
                        > > _had_ been in contact a year and a half ago on this very issue.
                        > >
                        > > Although I didn't recall it, we did in fact have a brief
                        > exchange back
                        > > on June 28, 2005. Judy's memory is correct that back then she and I
                        > > and Gary were active on the GospelofThomas list. Soon after
                        > I had had
                        > > an exchange with him on that list, he sent me a note requesting
                        > > permission to use my "GoT translations"
                        > > in a "forthcoming book". My complete reply to him was as follows:
                        > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
                        > > ---------
                        > > The only "translation" that's mine is the word-for-word translation
                        > > that appears under each Coptic line. I've never done a translation
                        > > other than that. The translation up top of each saying is
                        > Lambdin's.
                        > > I'm not sure how one could use the word-for-word by itself,
                        > since in a
                        > > lot of places it's awkward, or needs explanation for other reasons
                        > > (such as that Coptic had no true passive voice).
                        > > Some folks have used the word-for-word for the purpose of checking
                        > > their own translations, and you can see how they worded their
                        > > acknowledgements at http://www.geocitie s.com/Athens/
                        > 9068/z_transl.
                        > > htm ("Notices in Print"). You can do that too, if you want.
                        > > As for quoting the word-for-word in the body of a book, though, I'd
                        > > have serious doubts whether that's a good thing to do.
                        > > ------------ -------- (end quote) ------------ --------- ---------
                        > > ----
                        > >
                        > > Mr. Hudson now says that he took these comments to be
                        > "tacit approval"
                        > > of some sort or other, though he admits he might have
                        > misunderstood.
                        > > Indeed. At any rate, I'll leave it at that for now, since I'm in
                        > > communication with him, but I did want to correct my one
                        > misstatement
                        > > and fill in some background information that casts the
                        > situation in a
                        > > somewhat different light.
                        > >
                        > > Mike
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
                        > > ----------
                        > > Gospel of Thomas Homepage: http://home. epix.net/ ~miser17/
                        > > Thomas.html Interlinear translation:
                        > > http://www.geocitie s.com/mwgrondin/ x_transl. htm
                        > >
                        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ______________________________________________________________
                        > ______________________
                        > Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate
                        > in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.
                        > http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545367
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --------------------------------------------------------------
                        > ----------
                        > Gospel of Thomas Homepage: http://home.epix.net/~miser17/Thomas.html
                        > Interlinear translation:
                        > http://www.geocities.com/mwgrondin/x_transl.htm
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • Michael Grondin
                        Hi Judy, ... Not a dime. ... Exactly so. ... On the up side, Gary Hudson tells me that only one copy had been sold at the time he wrote. Evidently, Rick and I
                        Message 11 of 14 , Jan 22, 2007
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Hi Judy,
                          Some responses to your latest note:

                          > Because Mike isn't (as far as I know) earning
                          > any money from his interlinear ...

                          Not a dime.

                          > ... it is quite likely that [Mike's] work is now in published
                          > form in a book that contains interpretations of Thomas
                          > with which he doesn't want to be associated and while
                          > (as I understand it) he isn't a professional Thomas scholar,
                          > he still values his good name within the scholarly community.

                          Exactly so.

                          > We all know the background, but there are Thomas scholars
                          > not on this list (!) who might well pick up Hudson's book,
                          > decide it's very lightweight and therefore make a wrong
                          > judgement about Mike for agreeing to have his interlinear
                          > published in it.

                          On the up side, Gary Hudson tells me that only one copy
                          had been sold at the time he wrote. Evidently, Rick and I
                          have accounted for a 200% increase in sales! But yes,
                          whether I'm inclined to let it slide or not depends a lot on
                          what's in the book. I suspect I won't like it, but we'll see.

                          > It would have been better if, when Hudson initially posed
                          > his question, Mike had said something like "I'm not happy
                          > to have the interlinear published without my seeing the text
                          > with which it's going to be associated. ..." Instead, he let
                          > his natural modesty lead the way and he said something
                          > that was a bit vague and was misinterpreted ...

                          I look at it as realism, not modesty. I can see that what I
                          was thinking at the time I wrote the note wasn't whether
                          _Gary_ should publish the interlinear, but whether _anyone_
                          should publish it in current form. Maybe this confused him,
                          but when I concluded that I didn't think it was a good idea
                          in general, I thought that the implication of that for his
                          specific request was clear enough. In future, I'll shoot
                          down the request first and ask questions later!

                          Regards,
                          Mike
                        • Paul Lanier
                          Thanks Ron, What I m saying is that if you just ignore a request for use of material then use of the material cannot be considered by contract nor gift. It s
                          Message 12 of 14 , Jan 23, 2007
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Thanks Ron,
                            What I'm saying is that if you just ignore a request for use of material then use of the material cannot be considered by contract nor gift. It's just theft :)
                            regards, Paul

                            ----- Original Message ----
                            From: Ron McCann <ronmccann1@...>
                            To: gthomas@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 8:58:12 PM
                            Subject: Re: [GTh] Copyright Infringement













                            At 09:41 PM 22/01/07, Paul wrote:



                            >Hi Judy,

                            >

                            >A couple of thoughts based on the Business Law class I took last

                            >year. An attorney should be consulted but this is my understanding.

                            >

                            >A contractual agreement does not exist unless both parties agree to

                            >specifics. If a contract is vague it cannot be enforced. Moreover

                            >both sides must receive something of value in order for a contract

                            >to exist. The safest way to respond to an offer may be to ignore it.

                            >In that case there is no contract.

                            >

                            >If one gives something to another without compensation, it's a gift

                            >and it must have been given without any doubt. The mere claim that

                            >the recipient thought it was a gift is insufficient.

                            >

                            >Finally, in the absence of a specific agreement, copyright is always

                            >retained by the author.

                            >

                            >regards, Paul



                            You can consent to, or waive a copyright infringement without

                            any"consideration"

                            being offered, accepted or exchanged. No contract need be involved.



                            Ron McCann

                            Barrister & Solicitor

                            (Retired).














                            <!--

                            #ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px;font-family:arial,helvetica,clean,sans-serif;}
                            #ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;}
                            #ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {font:99% arial,helvetica,clean,sans-serif;}
                            #ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {font:115% monospace;}
                            #ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;}
                            #ygrp-text{
                            font-family:Georgia;
                            }
                            #ygrp-text p{
                            margin:0 0 1em 0;
                            }
                            #ygrp-tpmsgs{
                            font-family:Arial;
                            clear:both;
                            }
                            #ygrp-vitnav{
                            padding-top:10px;
                            font-family:Verdana;
                            font-size:77%;
                            margin:0;
                            }
                            #ygrp-vitnav a{
                            padding:0 1px;
                            }
                            #ygrp-actbar{
                            clear:both;
                            margin:25px 0;
                            white-space:nowrap;
                            color:#666;
                            text-align:right;
                            }
                            #ygrp-actbar .left{
                            float:left;
                            white-space:nowrap;
                            }
                            .bld{font-weight:bold;}
                            #ygrp-grft{
                            font-family:Verdana;
                            font-size:77%;
                            padding:15px 0;
                            }
                            #ygrp-ft{
                            font-family:verdana;
                            font-size:77%;
                            border-top:1px solid #666;
                            padding:5px 0;
                            }
                            #ygrp-mlmsg #logo{
                            padding-bottom:10px;
                            }

                            #ygrp-vital{
                            background-color:#e0ecee;
                            margin-bottom:20px;
                            padding:2px 0 8px 8px;
                            }
                            #ygrp-vital #vithd{
                            font-size:77%;
                            font-family:Verdana;
                            font-weight:bold;
                            color:#333;
                            text-transform:uppercase;
                            }
                            #ygrp-vital ul{
                            padding:0;
                            margin:2px 0;
                            }
                            #ygrp-vital ul li{
                            list-style-type:none;
                            clear:both;
                            border:1px solid #e0ecee;
                            }
                            #ygrp-vital ul li .ct{
                            font-weight:bold;
                            color:#ff7900;
                            float:right;
                            width:2em;
                            text-align:right;
                            padding-right:.5em;
                            }
                            #ygrp-vital ul li .cat{
                            font-weight:bold;
                            }
                            #ygrp-vital a {
                            text-decoration:none;
                            }

                            #ygrp-vital a:hover{
                            text-decoration:underline;
                            }

                            #ygrp-sponsor #hd{
                            color:#999;
                            font-size:77%;
                            }
                            #ygrp-sponsor #ov{
                            padding:6px 13px;
                            background-color:#e0ecee;
                            margin-bottom:20px;
                            }
                            #ygrp-sponsor #ov ul{
                            padding:0 0 0 8px;
                            margin:0;
                            }
                            #ygrp-sponsor #ov li{
                            list-style-type:square;
                            padding:6px 0;
                            font-size:77%;
                            }
                            #ygrp-sponsor #ov li a{
                            text-decoration:none;
                            font-size:130%;
                            }
                            #ygrp-sponsor #nc {
                            background-color:#eee;
                            margin-bottom:20px;
                            padding:0 8px;
                            }
                            #ygrp-sponsor .ad{
                            padding:8px 0;
                            }
                            #ygrp-sponsor .ad #hd1{
                            font-family:Arial;
                            font-weight:bold;
                            color:#628c2a;
                            font-size:100%;
                            line-height:122%;
                            }
                            #ygrp-sponsor .ad a{
                            text-decoration:none;
                            }
                            #ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{
                            text-decoration:underline;
                            }
                            #ygrp-sponsor .ad p{
                            margin:0;
                            }
                            o {font-size:0;}
                            .MsoNormal {
                            margin:0 0 0 0;
                            }
                            #ygrp-text tt{
                            font-size:120%;
                            }
                            blockquote{margin:0 0 0 4px;}
                            .replbq {margin:4;}
                            -->









                            ____________________________________________________________________________________
                            Don't pick lemons.
                            See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
                            http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.