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[gthomas] Re: Logion 20

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  • Paul Miller
    My post a few minutes ago should have been titled Hit the send instead of the edit button while preparing my post . Here is the finished post. Mats wrote: On
    Message 1 of 3 , Jan 3, 1999
      My post a few minutes ago should have been titled "Hit the send instead of
      the edit button while preparing my post". Here is the finished post.

      Mats wrote:
      On the contrary, Jesus says that the faith is like a mustard-seed that is
      very tiny in the beginning but becomes a big tree in the
      end. ---------------------------------------------

      Yes, but it becomes tree at the end of synoptic development and then a big
      tree in Mats gospel. :)
      See the progression below from large plant to largest plant to tree. The
      GOT seems to have the earlier less developed version here.

      GThomas
      20 The disciples said to Jesus, "Tell us what Heaven's kingdom is like."
      He said to them, It's like a mustard seed, the smallest of all seeds, but
      when it falls on prepared soil, it produces a large plant and becomes a
      shelter for birds of the sky.


      Mark
      30
      *And He said, «How shall we [1]*picture the kingdom of God, or by what
      parable shall we present it?
      31
      «It is like a mustard seed, which, when sown upon the soil, though it is
      smaller than all the seeds that are upon the soil,
      32
      yet when it is sown, it grows up and becomes larger than all the garden
      plants and forms large branches; so that *THE BIRDS OF THE [2]AIR can NEST
      UNDER ITS SHADE.»
      [1]Lit compare
      [2]Or sky

      Matthew
      31
      He presented another parable to them, saying, «*The kingdom of heaven is
      like *a mustard seed, which a man took and sowed in his field;
      32
      and this is smaller than all other seeds, but when it is full grown, it is
      larger than the garden plants and becomes a tree, so that *THE BIRDS OF THE
      [1]AIR come and NEST IN ITS BRANCHES.
      [1]Or sky

      Luke
      18
      So *He was saying, «*What is the kingdom of God like, and to what shall I
      compare it?
      19
      «It is like a mustard seed, which a man took and threw into his own garden;
      and it grew and became a tree, and *THE BIRDS OF THE [1]AIR NESTED IN ITS
      BRANCHES.»
      [1]Or sky

      Paul Miller


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    • Penny Villegas
      Here are two questions. I have joined the list to expand my knowledge. Question 1: I have a confused understanding of the gnostics. In some circles they are
      Message 2 of 3 , Jan 3, 1999
        Here are two questions. I have joined the list to expand my knowledge.
        Question 1: I have a confused understanding of the gnostics. In some circles
        they are seen as mystical purists. In others, as rigid and negative. I
        understand the root of the word, but why is there a connection to the GOT? Or
        the other gospels?

        Question 2: What is the connection with this gospel (or any of the gospels)
        to the Copts? I visited their church in Cairo--including a beautiful and
        strange (by my RC experience) mass. I know they claim to be the original
        Christians. It seems Mike G. can shed some light on this.

        Sorry I'm in a kindergarden level, but you have time to answer, I'd appreciate
        it.
        Happy Epiphany! Happy light!
        Penny

        Paul Miller wrote:

        > 30
        > *And He said, «How shall we [1]*picture the kingdom of God, or by what
        > parable shall we present it?
        > 31
        > «It is like a mustard seed, which, when sown upon the soil, though it is
        > smaller than all the seeds that are upon the soil,
        > 32
        > yet when it is sown, it grows up and becomes larger than all the garden
        > plants and forms large branches; so that *THE BIRDS OF THE [2]AIR can NEST
        > UNDER ITS SHADE.»
        > [1]Lit compare
        > [2]Or sky
        >
        > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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      • Mats Winther
        ... Från: Paul Miller Till: gthomas@egroups.com Datum: den 3 januari 1999 17:35 Ämne: [gthomas] Re: Logion 20 ...
        Message 3 of 3 , Jan 4, 1999
          -----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
          Från: Paul Miller <pm@...>
          Till: gthomas@egroups.com <gthomas@egroups.com>
          Datum: den 3 januari 1999 17:35
          Ämne: [gthomas] Re: Logion 20


          >Mats wrote:
          >On the contrary, Jesus says that the faith is like a mustard-seed that is
          >very tiny in the beginning but becomes a big tree in the
          >end. ---------------------------------------------
          >
          >Yes, but it becomes tree at the end of synoptic development and then a big
          >tree in Mats gospel. :)
          > See the progression below from large plant to largest plant to tree. The
          >GOT seems to have the earlier less developed version here.


          You hit the head of the nail. It has progressed from a twig to a tree in synoptic times. And now it is an even bigger tree. And eventually the Kingdom (according to the Christian eschatology) will engulf the whole of existence. It is fruitful to the understanding of the texts to take them seriously. We have to do with some sort of living reality here (Matthew (22:32): "..God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.")

          To a scholar of the ancient texts it is important to understand how the authors thought. And you realize, of course that I didn't cite any Gospel exactly. But this is no crime. On the contrary, to me it is vital to understand the underlying meaning of the texts. So I hope you forgive me for inserting the word "big".

          Mats Winther


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