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Re: [GTh] Adventures in Cyberspace

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  • Peter Kirby
    Hi Michael, First, some short note on the difference between Wikipedia and Citizendium. The main difference of Citizendium concerns who composes the
    Message 1 of 9 , Dec 10, 2006
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      Hi Michael,

      First, some short note on the difference between Wikipedia and
      Citizendium. The main difference of Citizendium concerns who composes
      the 'bureaucracy', for lack of a better term, and what they are charged
      with doing. Wikipedia has often been accused of communist-like
      management, where process is first and last. It is also openly
      anti-elitist, while Sanger declaims himself as neither elitist nor
      anti-elitist. The admins of the Wikipedia are generally just those with
      a lot of time on their hands, and people with names such as 'du ba shi
      di yu' (in other words, anonymous non-experts) are the guiding light on
      the subject of the editing of the 'Jesus' page (among other things, the
      current practice there is to use a 'AD/CE' monstrosity, er,
      'compromise'). However, the admins of Wikipedia are not themselves
      authorized to adjudicate in matters of content, only matters of process.

      The admins of Wikipedia are "sort of" kept in Citizendium, but as
      follows: they are named constables, they are limited to four in number
      at first, and they have apparently been selected by Larry Sanger. Their
      job remains a matter of process. However, there are now people who are
      authorized to make decisions, along with one another, on matters of
      content; they are called 'editors'. At present they number 150, and I
      haven't seen one claim editorship of the Religion section yet. (We
      could use some of the people reading this listserv, certainly!) Editors
      are limited in their authority to the workgroups under which they have
      been approved for editing. If that is an academic subject, an editor
      should have the equivalent of tenure track credentials: i.e., be at the
      least in the final stages of a Ph.D. program. (I for example have
      little hope to become an editor for some years, unless I have
      misunderstood the policy.) Along with the editors and constables, there
      are a large number of 'authors' who work on the pages, side by side with
      editors. The only real stipulation is that an author uses his or her
      given name, but they are also encouraged to list their equivalent of a
      CV on their user page.

      I am enthusiastic about the Citizendium project and would encourage
      everyone here (really!) to help me build up the "Religion" section, or
      whatever other section you find interesting.

      About GospelThomas.com:

      You might find interesting the reason I wanted to keep GospelThomas.com
      separate from the main content of ECW. ECW is sold as a CD-ROM, while
      GospelThomas.com is not on that CD-ROM. I have concerns about
      copyright, and the propriety of selling what is essentially an amalgam
      of quotes from authors on the Gospel of Thomas, without any permissions
      from those authors. It seems, in my inexpert opinion, to be right on
      the borderline of fair use, and thus not appropriate for resale.

      If I am going to put up the collection at
      www.earlychristianwritings.com/thomas/ then the question becomes...can
      it be legally included on a CD-ROM and sold? Or, if not, is it illegal
      to place on the net in the first place? Should it perhaps be yanked for
      good??

      regards,
      Peter Kirby

      Michael Grondin wrote:
      > 1. Peter Kirby informs me that he's lost the domain-
      > name "gospelthomas.com" for all his Thomas stuff.
      > It's currently up for sale at an outrageous price he
      > can't afford. While he mulls over what new name to use
      > for his content, I've marked his sayings-pages in my
      > index as "currently unavailable". (His main site
      > "earlychristianwritings.com" is unaffected except for
      > its link to gospelthomas.com.)
      >
      > 2. Adventures in Wikipedia-land: In another note,
      > Peter mentioned that he was involved with a new venture
      > called 'Citizendium', "... a fork of Wikipedia by Larry Sanger,
      > who co-founded the Wiki with Jimbo Wales."
      > http://www.citizendium.org/
      >
      > ... which reminded me of Chris Weimer's response of
      > Oct 13th to my note "How Many Books in the Jar?"
      >
      >
      >> Wikipedia itself continues to use the antiquated
      >> "13 leather-bound codices".
      >>
      >
      > Having learned from reading about Citizendium that
      > Wikipedia was editable by anybody, I went there and
      > did my first Wikipedia work. I changed the article that
      > Chris was referring to ("The Nag Hammadi Library"),
      > then got more adventuresome and corrected an error
      > in the Gospel of Thomas article ('Oxyrhynchus' was
      > misspelt 'Oxyrhyncus'.) I'll be interested in what happens
      > now, since apparently anyone can reverse my changes!
      > (As I understand it, that's one of the weaknesses of
      > Wikipedia that Citizendium is addressing.)
      >
    • Judy Redman
      ... An unsolicited suggestion: If Peter were putting up a site in Australia, he would not be able to use .com, because it s an extension that s only supposed
      Message 2 of 9 , Dec 10, 2006
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        Mike writes:
        >
        > 1. Peter Kirby informs me that he's lost the domain- name
        > "gospelthomas.com" for all his Thomas stuff.
        > It's currently up for sale at an outrageous price he can't
        > afford. While he mulls over what new name to use for his
        > content, I've marked his sayings-pages in my index as
        > "currently unavailable". (His main site
        > "earlychristianwritings.com" is unaffected except for its
        > link to gospelthomas.com.)

        An unsolicited suggestion:

        If Peter were putting up a site in Australia, he would not be able to use
        .com, because it's an extension that's only supposed to be used by
        commercial organisations. More to the point, commercial organisations are
        not allowed to use .org and .net domain names, so they are much cheaper
        than .com ones. Maybe simply changing to one of those would work - I
        imagine they're not as desirable for commercial organisations, so he's less
        likely to run into this problem again.

        One wonders who "they" think is going to pay an outrageous prices for
        "gospelthomas.com", incidentally. I certainly haven't received the
        impression that there's anything amazingly lucrative about the Gospel of
        Thomas, but perhaps they know something we don't and we're all about to
        become rich. :-)

        Judy
      • Michael Grondin
        ... Yes, gospelthomas.net and .org are available, and that s one of the options Peter is considering. Unfortunately, we here in the States seem to disregard
        Message 3 of 9 , Dec 11, 2006
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          [Judy Redman wrote]:
          > If Peter were putting up a site in Australia, he would
          > not be able to use .com, because it's an extension that's
          > only supposed to be used by commercial organisations.
          > More to the point, commercial organisations are not
          > allowed to use .org and .net domain names, so they are
          > much cheaper than .com ones. Maybe simply changing
          > to one of those would work - I imagine they're not as
          > desirable for commercial organisations, so he's less
          > likely to run into this problem again.

          Yes, 'gospelthomas.net' and .org are available, and that's
          one of the options Peter is considering. Unfortunately, we
          here in the States seem to disregard the meaning of the
          suffixes and assume that every address ends with '.com'.
          My last employer, for example, was a non-profit organization
          that should have used '.org', but instead spent some time
          dickering with a guy who had the '.com' suffix they wanted,
          and was asking $7000 for it. (Eventually, they settled on
          '.org', but not without worrying that nobody would find their
          site, because they believed that everyone else would
          assume a '.com' suffix.) Is there an organization in Australia
          that controls these things? I don't believe there's one in the
          States, and I'm not aware that the internat'l organization
          looks into this very carefully at all. I could be wrong, though.

          BTW, I looked into whether the name 'gospelthomas.net'
          was available thru Geocities - my own host site. (I assume
          that they would put in a request for it on my behalf). It looks
          as if it is, and that I could get it for no more than I'm paying
          now - which is $5 per month (basically to prevent Geocities
          advertising from popping up on my site). Not that I'm seriously
          thinking of doing this (even if I were, I'd give Peter first shot),
          but I wonder if having a domain-name might not have certain
          indirect beneficial results. Would it be more likely to receive
          notice in print and on scholarly sites? Dunno. But what about
          the downside? Would the existing address still work? (That's
          important, cuz there's links to it all over, and it's also in print.)
          Any thoughts on this, or on domain-name versus personal
          page? (To me, a rose by any other name ... but names can
          influence us, even if not consciously.)

          > One wonders who "they" think is going to pay an
          > outrageous prices for "gospelthomas.com", incidentally.

          Whoever got the name was apparently a domain-name
          speculator, since they didn't make use of it, but put it
          up for sale with a company called 'Sedo', that auctions
          off domain-names, claiming to have over 5 million of
          them. (Maybe Sedo itself got the name by putting in a
          back-order for it even as Peter was using it. When he
          failed to pay the annual fee on time, the next requestor
          on backorder got it.) The interesting thing to me is that
          Sedo uses _previous traffic_ to the site as a selling-
          point - as if whoever buys the name could count on that
          same amount of traffic no matter what the content!

          Regards,
          Mike Grondin
        • Michael Grondin
          ... Bearing this and other considerations in mind, I ve decided to delete the duplicate files with lower-case names from my site. The other considerations
          Message 4 of 9 , Dec 11, 2006
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            [Peter Kirby wrote]:
            > Canonical names (URLs, not title fields) are important for
            > search engines. If you are thought to be duplicating content,
            > you could be severely penalized by Google.

            Bearing this and other considerations in mind, I've decided
            to delete the duplicate files with lower-case names from my
            site. The "other considerations" are that Google and Yahoo
            search-engines have both picked up 'JOHNSON.HTM' (which
            is my short note), that Google has picked up 'IYERTRAN.HTM'
            (which is the Iyer rendition), and that I've used caps in referring
            to those pages both here and in several private notes.

            Cheers,
            Mike
          • Michael Grondin
            Took a look at Brandon Wason s blog Sitz im Leben tonight. In particular, his entry of July 24th titled Commentaries on the Gospel of Thomas , link as
            Message 5 of 9 , Aug 6, 2009
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              Took a look at Brandon Wason's blog "Sitz im Leben" tonight.
              In particular, his entry of July 24th titled "Commentaries on the
              Gospel of Thomas", link as follows:

              http://sitzimleben.com/2009/07/24/commentaries-on-the-gospel-of-thomas/

              Brandon starts out by saying:

              "In light of some recent posts on the Gospel of Thomas around the
              blogosphere (Michael Bird, Roger Pearse, and Michael Heiser), I have
              put together a short annotated bibliography of commentaries on this text."

              The Michael Bird reference has been mentioned previously here, and
              I've linked to some of Roger Pearse's stuff, so I knew about him*, but I
              hadn't heard of Michael Heiser before, so I followed the link in the above
              sentence. Didn't learn much about Heiser, and wasn't too impressed
              with the referenced item (which links to a 2006 paper by Nick Perrin,
              which Heiser calls "a recent article"), but at the end of it was a thingy
              called 'Technorati tags' which I'd never seen before. Curious, I clicked
              on the "Technorati tag" for Gospel of Thomas. It wasn't what I expected.
              What I had expected was the kind of tag that most blogs have, which
              brings up all the entries in that blog for the tagged subject (depending
              on the consistency of the individual blogger). The Technorati tag, though,
              brings up tagged stuff on technorati.com, which isn't under the control
              of the blogger. The "stuff" includes links to blog entries and videos.
              Among the videos was the following, which I found rather good, and so
              am passing along:

              http://technorati.com/videos/youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dl9ocv9AJI88

              The 9-minute clip appears to be a professional production, but I couldn't
              find any date or producer listed. The "talking heads" are Stephen Emmel
              and Bart Ehrman, and the clip features some nice views of the manuscript.
              It seems to have come from YouTube, since one can click on the words
              'YouTube' within the Technorati video screen and be taken to a somewhat
              larger video screen on YouTube which shows the same thing.

              I should mention that I looked at a couple other videos, but wasn't
              impressed enough to recommend them. If anyone finds one they think
              is well-done and informative, please pass it along so we all can take a
              look at it. I may add links to these on my website.

              Cheers,
              Mike Grondin

              *Roger Pearse is mentioned in James Robinson's book on the Gospel
              of Judas. Roger had suggested on his website that the Tchakos Codex,
              which contains the Gospel of Judas, might have been a missing 13th codex
              from Nag Hammadi. In his Judas book, Robinson corrected him, saying
              that there wasn't any missing 13th codex. Unfortunately, Robinson didn't
              acknowledge that he himself had been at least partially responsible for
              speculation about the number of Nag Hammadi codices, in his various
              writings up to that point. Indeed, I ran across a YouTube video featuring a
              youngish James Robinson saying that the Egyptian peasants who made
              the Nag Hammadi find couldn't divide up "the 13 books" evenly among
              the eight of them. (That was perhaps before Robinson determined that
              the so-called 'Codex XIII' wasn't part of a codex that had been put in
              the jar, but was rather a single tractate that had been removed from a
              codex when the jar was being packed, and was inserted into Codex VI.
              BTW, Roger accepted Robinson's correction.)
            • Judy Redman
              Mike, The video you found is part of a BBCFour (ie part of the British Broadcasting Commission) TV program, so it s definitely of professional quality. It has
              Message 6 of 9 , Aug 7, 2009
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                Mike,

                The video you found is part of a BBCFour (ie part of the British
                Broadcasting Commission) TV program, so it's definitely of professional
                quality. It has definitely not been put up on YouTube by the BBC, though -
                doesn't have any intro or credits to say who the man in the hat is etc. It's
                most likely to have been taped off the TV, edited and uploaded, but the
                BBCFour logo can still be seen in the top left of the picture.

                It's an interesting video. It struck me as odd, though, that the man in the
                hat said that we could tell from the fact that so many fragments had been
                found that it was widely distributed. I would have thought that compared
                with the number of fragments of the Synoptics, the number of fragments of
                Thomas was miniscule and not widely distributed at all.

                A little detective work reveals that the man in the hat is Rev Peter
                Owen-Jones, an advertising executive turned Anglican priest. It is taken
                from a series that he did for the BBC on "The Lost Gospels" where he talks
                about the other early gospels and the different kinds of Christianity that
                they represent. The first part can be seen at
                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-L7cQ3BrD5U&feature=related In it, he and
                Bart Ehrman go to the Hummra Dam cliffs where the Nag Hammadi library was
                found and Ehrman tells the story of the discover of the library. It's highly
                likely that you can buy a legal copy of it. :-)

                I was aware of Technorati, but haven't previously looked around it to see
                how they tag things. Thanks.

                Judy


                --
                Rev Judy Redman
                Uniting Church Chaplain
                University of New England
                Armidale 2351 Australia
                ph: +61 2 6773 3739
                fax: +61 2 6773 3749
                web: http://www.une.edu.au/chaplaincy/uniting/ and
                http://blog.une.edu.au/unitingchaplaincy/
                email: jredman@...

                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: gthomas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:gthomas@yahoogroups.com] On
                > Behalf Of Michael Grondin
                > Sent: Friday, 7 August 2009 4:57 PM
                > To: gthomas@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: [GTh] Adventures in Cyberspace
                >
                > Took a look at Brandon Wason's blog "Sitz im Leben" tonight.
                > In particular, his entry of July 24th titled "Commentaries on the
                > Gospel of Thomas", link as follows:
                >
                > http://sitzimleben.com/2009/07/24/commentaries-on-the-gospel-of-thomas/
                >
                > Brandon starts out by saying:
                >
                > "In light of some recent posts on the Gospel of Thomas around the
                > blogosphere (Michael Bird, Roger Pearse, and Michael Heiser), I have
                > put together a short annotated bibliography of commentaries on this
                > text."
                >
                > The Michael Bird reference has been mentioned previously here, and
                > I've linked to some of Roger Pearse's stuff, so I knew about him*, but
                > I
                > hadn't heard of Michael Heiser before, so I followed the link in the
                > above
                > sentence. Didn't learn much about Heiser, and wasn't too impressed
                > with the referenced item (which links to a 2006 paper by Nick Perrin,
                > which Heiser calls "a recent article"), but at the end of it was a
                > thingy
                > called 'Technorati tags' which I'd never seen before. Curious, I
                > clicked
                > on the "Technorati tag" for Gospel of Thomas. It wasn't what I
                > expected.
                > What I had expected was the kind of tag that most blogs have, which
                > brings up all the entries in that blog for the tagged subject
                > (depending
                > on the consistency of the individual blogger). The Technorati tag,
                > though,
                > brings up tagged stuff on technorati.com, which isn't under the control
                > of the blogger. The "stuff" includes links to blog entries and videos.
                > Among the videos was the following, which I found rather good, and so
                > am passing along:
                >
                > http://technorati.com/videos/youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dl9ocv9AJI88
                >
                > The 9-minute clip appears to be a professional production, but I
                > couldn't
                > find any date or producer listed. The "talking heads" are Stephen Emmel
                > and Bart Ehrman, and the clip features some nice views of the
                > manuscript.
                > It seems to have come from YouTube, since one can click on the words
                > 'YouTube' within the Technorati video screen and be taken to a somewhat
                > larger video screen on YouTube which shows the same thing.
                >
                > I should mention that I looked at a couple other videos, but wasn't
                > impressed enough to recommend them. If anyone finds one they think
                > is well-done and informative, please pass it along so we all can take a
                > look at it. I may add links to these on my website.
                >
                > Cheers,
                > Mike Grondin
                >
                > *Roger Pearse is mentioned in James Robinson's book on the Gospel
                > of Judas. Roger had suggested on his website that the Tchakos Codex,
                > which contains the Gospel of Judas, might have been a missing 13th
                > codex
                > from Nag Hammadi. In his Judas book, Robinson corrected him, saying
                > that there wasn't any missing 13th codex. Unfortunately, Robinson
                > didn't
                > acknowledge that he himself had been at least partially responsible for
                > speculation about the number of Nag Hammadi codices, in his various
                > writings up to that point. Indeed, I ran across a YouTube video
                > featuring a
                > youngish James Robinson saying that the Egyptian peasants who made
                > the Nag Hammadi find couldn't divide up "the 13 books" evenly among
                > the eight of them. (That was perhaps before Robinson determined that
                > the so-called 'Codex XIII' wasn't part of a codex that had been put in
                > the jar, but was rather a single tractate that had been removed from a
                > codex when the jar was being packed, and was inserted into Codex VI.
                > BTW, Roger accepted Robinson's correction.)
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Gospel of Thomas Homepage: http://home.epix.net/~miser17/Thomas.html
                > Interlinear translation:
                > http://www.geocities.com/mwgrondin/x_transl.htm
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
              • Judy Redman
                Sorry folks, I hit send before I trimmed the unnecessary text from my response to Mike s post. Even moderators make mistakes, but ours go straight through to
                Message 7 of 9 , Aug 7, 2009
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                  Sorry folks,

                  I hit send before I trimmed the unnecessary text from my response to Mike's
                  post.

                  Even moderators make mistakes, but ours go straight through to the list. :-)

                  Judy

                  --
                  Rev Judy Redman
                  Uniting Church Chaplain
                  University of New England
                  Armidale 2351 Australia
                  ph: +61 2 6773 3739
                  fax: +61 2 6773 3749
                  web: http://www.une.edu.au/chaplaincy/uniting/ and
                  http://blog.une.edu.au/unitingchaplaincy/
                  email: jredman@...
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