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Re: [GTh] The Strange Case of the Nancy Johnson Translation

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  • Christian Jensen
    Nothing like seeing my name in print to bring me out of hibernation. Mike, you are absolutely correct. Here are details on the book. Concord Grove Press PO Box
    Message 1 of 9 , Nov 28, 2006
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      Nothing like seeing my name in print to bring me out of hibernation.

      Mike, you are absolutely correct. Here are details on the book.

      Concord Grove Press
      PO Box 959
      Santa Barbara, CA 93102

      First Edition: December 25, 1983
      ISBN 0-88695-005-8
      Fourth Printing: October 2, 1988
      Copyright 1983 The Pythagorean Society

      Contents
      Part 1
      The Gnostic Transmission
      The Gospel According to Thomas
      The Mystery of Christos by H.P. Blavatsky
      The Message of Jesus by Raghavan Iyer

      Part 2
      Gnostic Theogony by Elton Hall
      Treatise on the Ressurection
      Aprocryphon of John
      Evangelium Veritatis
      Song of the Pearl
      The Voice Divine by Louis Claude de Saint-Martin
      Glossary

      In the front of the book, there is this statement: "The Gospel
      According to Thomas was discovered in 1947 amongst the Nag Hammadi
      manuscripts in Egypt. Whilst the entire library of long lost codices
      sheds new light on the origins of Christian tradition, this brief
      gospel might well be the earliest record of the utterances of Jesus.
      Accessible to the agnostic as well as the mystic, these one hundred
      and fourteen stanzas are compellingly rendered by Pico Iyer in the
      spirit of the original Coptic. The aphoristic text is illuminated by
      additional selections from Gnostic Christian sources. Two instructive
      essays, 'the Mystery of the Christos' by H.P. Blavatsky and 'The
      Message of Jesus' by Raghavan Iyer, are accompanied by two
      introductory articles, 'The Gnostic Transmission' and Gnostic
      Theogony' by Elton Hall. The poem 'The Voice Divine' by Louis Claude
      de Saint-Martin concludes the selections. A glossary of terms is
      included."

      There is a biography of Raghavan Iyer available on Amazon. Or, you
      may visit this: http://www.theosophytrust.org/tlodocs/RNI_biography.php

      CJ
    • Michael Grondin
      Hi Christian- Glad to see you re still around. I ve dug up a few more facts relevant to this issue, though I still have no idea who Nancy Johnson is or how her
      Message 2 of 9 , Nov 29, 2006
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        Hi Christian-

        Glad to see you're still around. I've dug up a few more
        facts relevant to this issue, though I still have no idea
        who Nancy Johnson is or how her name came to be
        associated with the translation in question.

        1. From the archives: I see that we had a discussion
        back in July of 2001 on this same subject:

        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gthomas/message/3963
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gthomas/message/3987

        (I see from this that you were the one who told Davies
        about this, resulting in his removing it from his site.)

        2. Raghavan Iyer (1930-1995) was in fact Pico's father.
        No evidence, however, that Pico shares his father's
        Theosophical views, and nothing I can find about Pico
        having had any training in Coptic. He's well-educated,
        though, so he might have. (It'd be nice to contact Pico
        directly, but I can't find any email address for him.)

        3. "Sacred Texts" is apparently an alternate title for
        the book mentioned earlier.

        4. I've written to the Reluctant-Messenger website
        to ask them to change the author's name on their text,
        but I don't expect a positive result, and anyway this isn't
        the only place the text appears. Since stamping out web
        misinformation is rather like fighting the hydra, a more
        fruitful approach might be to create a counter-text, i.e.,
        to put the text up somewhere, properly attributed to Iyer,
        and with an explanatory note that it's elsewhere erroneously
        attributed. Web-searchers would presumably find this
        among their results, and would take heed.

        Regards,
        Mike G.
      • Christian Jensen
        Hi MIke, Great idea about putting up a site with the proper info. Unfortunately, I don t have the means to do so. I would be able to help in any way if someone
        Message 3 of 9 , Nov 29, 2006
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          Hi MIke,

          Great idea about putting up a site with the proper info.
          Unfortunately, I don't have the means to do so. I would be able to
          help in any way if someone else was to post the info. Maybe S. Davies
          would be interested. Let me know if I can help.

          You might be able to contact Pico through one of the magazines he
          writes for. Just an idea. :)

          ~Christian
        • Michael Grondin
          Hi Christian- I ve been hard at work the last hour or so copying the source-code from one of the Nancy Johnson translation pages on the web, suitably altering
          Message 4 of 9 , Nov 29, 2006
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            Hi Christian-

            I've been hard at work the last hour or so copying
            the source-code from one of the Nancy Johnson
            translation pages on the web, suitably altering it,
            and uploading it to my site. See
            http://www.geocities.com/mwgrondin/IYERTRAN.HTM

            Hopefully, Google and other web-search spiders
            will soon pick it up. It's not yet linked to any of my
            pages, but I may post an essay to my main page
            and link to it from that. (I don't want to put it in my list of
            Thomas translations, cuz I don't think it's a good one.)

            Regards,
            Mike
          • Judy Redman
            Maybe it would be better to refer to it as a paraphrase. It reminds me rather of the Living Bible or The Message. Such things probably have their places, but
            Message 5 of 9 , Nov 30, 2006
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              Maybe it would be better to refer to it as a paraphrase. It reminds me
              rather of the Living Bible or The Message. Such things probably have their
              places, but IMHO they're probably even less useful for text like Thomas that
              hasn't been well worked over for centuries.

              Judy

              -----Original Message-----
              From: gthomas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:gthomas@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
              Michael Grondin
              Sent: Thursday, 30 November 2006 4:15 PM
              To: gthomas@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [GTh] The Strange Case of the Nancy Johnson Translation

              Hi Christian-

              I've been hard at work the last hour or so copying the source-code from one
              of the Nancy Johnson translation pages on the web, suitably altering it, and
              uploading it to my site. See http://www.geocities.com/mwgrondin/IYERTRAN.HTM

              Hopefully, Google and other web-search spiders will soon pick it up. It's
              not yet linked to any of my pages, but I may post an essay to my main page
              and link to it from that. (I don't want to put it in my list of Thomas
              translations, cuz I don't think it's a good one.)

              Regards,
              Mike




              ------------------------------------------------------------------------
              Gospel of Thomas Homepage: http://home.epix.net/~miser17/Thomas.html
              Interlinear translation: http://www.geocities.com/mwgrondin/x_transl.htm

              Yahoo! Groups Links
            • Christian Jensen
              Hi Mike, Yeah, it isn t a translation. It is a rendering . I hope this helps sort things out. ~Christian ... [Non-text portions of this message have been
              Message 6 of 9 , Nov 30, 2006
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                Hi Mike,

                Yeah, it isn't a translation. It is a "rendering". I hope this helps
                sort things out.

                ~Christian

                On Nov 29, 2006, at 9:14 PM, Michael Grondin wrote:

                > Hi Christian-
                >
                > I've been hard at work the last hour or so copying
                > the source-code from one of the Nancy Johnson
                > translation pages on the web, suitably altering it,
                > and uploading it to my site. See
                > http://www.geocities.com/mwgrondin/IYERTRAN.HTM
                >
                > Hopefully, Google and other web-search spiders
                > will soon pick it up. It's not yet linked to any of my
                > pages, but I may post an essay to my main page
                > and link to it from that. (I don't want to put it in my list of
                > Thomas translations, cuz I don't think it's a good one.)
                >
                > Regards,
                > Mike
                >
                >
                >



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Michael Grondin
                Just to give notice that I ve added two Short Notes to my main page. One of them is basically the note I wrote to the list some time back on the number of
                Message 7 of 9 , Nov 30, 2006
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                  Just to give notice that I've added two "Short Notes"
                  to my main page. One of them is basically the note I
                  wrote to the list some time back on the number of
                  books in the jar. The other is called "The Strange
                  Case of Nancy Johnson", and links to the Iyer page
                  I uploaded yesterday. What these short notes have
                  in common is that they're both intended to counter
                  continuing misinformation.

                  Mike Grondin
                • Judy Redman
                  Hmmm. Just slowed down for the week and re-read this. I didn t *mean* to sound arrogant and dismissive, but I suspect that s how this probably comes across.
                  Message 8 of 9 , Dec 1, 2006
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                    Hmmm. Just slowed down for the week and re-read this. I didn't *mean* to
                    sound arrogant and dismissive, but I suspect that's how this probably comes
                    across. From my perspective, paraphrases or 'renderings' are useful for
                    texts that have been around for a very long time, so that people are so
                    familiar with them that they take them for granted and don't really *read*
                    them. A paraphrase can highlight a different way of understanding the text
                    to the traditional reading of it. What it usually does for me is to send me
                    back to the original to see if you can *really* get that from it.

                    My personal experience makes me very wary of people who twist text so that
                    they can use it as the basis of some unhelpful theology or another. Mostly
                    I have worked with text that I (and they) regard as Scripture, and therefore
                    authoratitive, so there is much more at stake than there is when you're more
                    interested in what the people who wrote it and used it understood it to
                    mean, which is how I work with Thomas.

                    So I think the point I was *trying* to make was that paraphrases/renderings
                    have their place, but I don't think it's in "scholarly" examination of texts
                    and I am not sure that Thomas has had the time to get so stale that there's
                    a big need for a paraphrase/rendering.

                    Judy

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: gthomas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:gthomas@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                    Judy Redman
                    Sent: Thursday, 30 November 2006 8:27 PM
                    To: gthomas@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: RE: [GTh] The Strange Case of the Nancy Johnson Translation

                    Maybe it would be better to refer to it as a paraphrase. It reminds me
                    rather of the Living Bible or The Message. Such things probably have their
                    places, but IMHO they're probably even less useful for text like Thomas that
                    hasn't been well worked over for centuries.

                    Judy

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: gthomas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:gthomas@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                    Michael Grondin
                    Sent: Thursday, 30 November 2006 4:15 PM
                    To: gthomas@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [GTh] The Strange Case of the Nancy Johnson Translation

                    Hi Christian-

                    I've been hard at work the last hour or so copying the source-code from one
                    of the Nancy Johnson translation pages on the web, suitably altering it, and
                    uploading it to my site. See http://www.geocities.com/mwgrondin/IYERTRAN.HTM

                    Hopefully, Google and other web-search spiders will soon pick it up. It's
                    not yet linked to any of my pages, but I may post an essay to my main page
                    and link to it from that. (I don't want to put it in my list of Thomas
                    translations, cuz I don't think it's a good one.)

                    Regards,
                    Mike




                    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    Gospel of Thomas Homepage: http://home.epix.net/~miser17/Thomas.html
                    Interlinear translation: http://www.geocities.com/mwgrondin/x_transl.htm

                    Yahoo! Groups Links






                    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    Gospel of Thomas Homepage: http://home.epix.net/~miser17/Thomas.html
                    Interlinear translation: http://www.geocities.com/mwgrondin/x_transl.htm

                    Yahoo! Groups Links
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