Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [GTh] very frivolous Coptic question

Expand Messages
  • Michael Grondin
    ... (I think Simon is resting on his laurels :-) Some second thoughts on nhHt-tHytn (N2HT-THYTN): What confuses me about this is thinking of the 2HT part of it
    Message 1 of 10 , Aug 29 3:38 PM
    • 0 Attachment
      > Anyone else?

      (I think Simon is resting on his laurels :-)

      Some second thoughts on nhHt-tHytn
      (N2HT-THYTN): What confuses me about
      this is thinking of the 2HT part of it as meaning
      'mind'. Of course, that's one of the meanings
      of 2HT, but when 2HT occurs in N2HT-x
      (which it can do, with x = THYTN), I've only
      seen it translated as 'in/of/among you(pl)'. This
      seems to be a murky area, but among the
      N2HT's in Thomas (10 by my count, none with
      THYTN), almost none of them can be understood
      as 'in the mind of x'.

      Case in point: 77.1 has "Everything came out
      of-me", where the "of-me" is N2HT with no suffix
      = 1st person sing.) Now this particular N2HT _could
      be_ understood, I suppose, as 'of-my-mind'. That
      is, it would make semantic sense. Yet I don't recall a
      single translation rendering it that way. So I think that
      the few cases where the addition of the word 'mind'
      makes sense in translating N2HT-x are simply
      accidents, and that when the Copts wanted to say
      'x's mind', they used the construction possessive +
      noun (in this case, PETN-2HT).

      Mike
    • William Arnal
      ... As well he might . . . ... I think these are actually two completely different words. There s 2HT (I like your transliteration style, so I ll adopt it
      Message 2 of 10 , Aug 29 5:41 PM
      • 0 Attachment
        Mike Grondin writes:

        >(I think Simon is resting on his laurels :-)

        As well he might . . .

        >Some second thoughts on nhHt-tHytn
        >(N2HT-THYTN): What confuses me about
        >this is thinking of the 2HT part of it as meaning
        >'mind'. Of course, that's one of the meanings
        >of 2HT, but when 2HT occurs in N2HT-x
        >(which it can do, with x = THYTN), I've only
        >seen it translated as 'in/of/among you(pl)'. This
        >seems to be a murky area, but among the
        >N2HT's in Thomas (10 by my count, none with
        >THYTN), almost none of them can be understood
        >as 'in the mind of x'.

        I think these are actually two completely different words. There's 2HT (I
        like your transliteration style, so I'll adopt it here) meaning "mind," with
        prepronominal form 2TH=, and which can in some idioms indicate possession by
        suffixation (this is an older form of the Egyptian possessive pronoun, and
        persists with some old words for body-parts, especially in prepositional
        compounds), but which normally constructs possession in the usual way
        (PA2HT, etc.). Then there's 2H, meaning belly or womb, with the
        prepronominal form 2HT=. A suffixial form of the latter is the basis for the
        preposition 2N, the prepronominal or presuffixial form of which is N2HT=;
        e.g., N2HTC, "in her," lit. "in her belly." Again, this formulation is based
        on the older style of indicating possession by a suffix, rather than by a
        pronoun joined to the definite article, and this archaism, as usual, appears
        only (?) with body parts.

        Again, I *think* that the N2HT-THYTN of the Marley lyrics was intended to be
        "of your mind(s)", modifying "slavery" (I should ask the author, and will).
        If so, I think your correction is entirely right -- 2HT's possessive, as a
        straightforward noun, should be PETN2HT, not 2HT-THYTN. But this has nothing
        to do, I think, with the preposition "in" (as 2N, N2HT=), which *looks* like
        "of/in mind," but is based on an entirely different noun.

        >that when the Copts wanted to say
        >'x's mind', they used the construction possessive +
        >noun (in this case, PETN-2HT).

        Yes, I agree completely.

        whew,
        Bill
        ______________________
        William Arnal
        University of Regina
      • Michael Grondin
        ... Spot on. Thanks for clearing that up. Mike
        Message 3 of 10 , Aug 29 7:28 PM
        • 0 Attachment
          [Bill]:
          > I think these are actually two completely different
          > words. There's 2HT ... meaning "mind," with
          > prepronominal form 2TH= ...

          > Then there's 2H, meaning belly or womb, with the
          > prepronominal form 2HT=. A suffixial form of the
          > latter is the basis for the preposition 2N, the pre-
          > pronominal or presuffixial form of which is N2HT=;
          > e.g., N2HTC, "in her," lit. "in her belly."

          Spot on. Thanks for clearing that up.

          Mike
        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.