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Exegesis on the Soul

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  • smithandp
    Could anyone point me to an edition of the Exegesis On the Soul, other than the text in the Layton ed. Nag Hammadi Codex II volume, which I already have? And
    Message 1 of 19 , Mar 21, 2006
      Could anyone point me to an edition of the Exegesis On the Soul, other
      than the text in the Layton ed. Nag Hammadi Codex II volume, which I
      already have? And to a bibliography on the Exegesis On the Soul?

      Also, could someone recommend an introduction to Coptic other than
      Lambdin's? I'm looking for something to supplement Lambdin's, perhaps
      a little more straightforward or simpler, but in any case something
      that I can study in parallel to Lambdin.

      Best Wishes

      Andrew

      Andrew Phillip Smith
    • Judy Redman
      ... I am not familiar with this book myself, but there is Bentley Layton s. A Coptic Grammar (Sahidic Dialect): With a Chrestomathy and Glossary . (Porta
      Message 2 of 19 , Mar 22, 2006
        Andrew writes:

        > Also, could someone recommend an introduction to Coptic other
        > than Lambdin's? I'm looking for something to supplement
        > Lambdin's, perhaps a little more straightforward or simpler,
        > but in any case something that I can study in parallel to Lambdin.

        I am not familiar with this book myself, but there is Bentley Layton's. "A
        Coptic Grammar (Sahidic Dialect): With a Chrestomathy and Glossary". (Porta
        linguarum orientalium; N.S., 20). Wiesbaden: Harrassowitz. First edition
        2000, 2nd edition (with, apparently, minimal changes) 2004. Leo Depuydt from
        Brown University reviewed the first edition extensively in the Journal of
        the American Oriental Society Oct-Dec 2002 Vol 122 issue 4 pp 807-815 in
        extremely enthusiastic tones.

        Glenn Snyder from Harvard reviewed the second edition in Review of Biblical
        Literature 2005 Vol 7 pp 80-84. His review is a little more guarded than
        Depuydt's but he finishes by saying "To a large extent, I (re-)taught myself
        Sahidic with the original edition of this volume: back then, its material,
        format, and accessibility were unparalleled. So now it is with great
        pleasure that I recommend this even more accessible edition." One of
        Snyder's reservations is that the grammar isn't based on the Nag Hammadi
        documents, so may not describe them as well as it does the early Christian
        Biblical manuscripts and the writings of Shenoute on which it is based. If
        you can't access copies of these reviews yourself, I could email you pdfs of
        them.

        I know what you mean about Lambdin - some of his explanations use very
        technical grammatical terms that are no longer regularly taught in
        Australian schools nor, I imagine, in schools in other places in the English
        speaking world. I am currently tutoring Coptic using Lambin and find that
        there are times that I have to translate the English before we start on the
        Coptic! The language in which these reveiws is written makes me suspect
        that neither of the reviewers would have difficulty with Lambdin's language,
        however, so their enthusiasm doesn't guarantee that Layton's book is
        simpler. :-)

        Regards

        Judy

        --
        "One can easily understand a child who is afraid of the dark. The real
        tragedy of life is when grown men and women are afraid of the light." -
        Plato

        Rev Judy Redman
        Uniting Church Chaplain
        University of New England
        Armidale 2351
        ph: +61 2 6773 3739
        fax: +61 2 6773 3749
        web: http://www.une.edu.au/campus/chaplaincy/uniting/
        email: jredman@...


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • William Arnal
        ... In fact, it s not. Lambdin s book is a teaching grammar -- Layton s is a reference grammar, and is MUCH more complex (and much less suited to LEARNING the
        Message 3 of 19 , Mar 22, 2006
          Judy Redman writes:

          >Coptic! The language in which these reveiws is written makes me suspect
          >that neither of the reviewers would have difficulty with Lambdin's
          >language,
          >however, so their enthusiasm doesn't guarantee that Layton's book is
          >simpler. :-)

          In fact, it's not. Lambdin's book is a teaching grammar -- Layton's is a
          reference grammar, and is MUCH more complex (and much less suited to
          LEARNING the language) than is Lambdin's. I am not aware of ANY
          English-language text that's worth looking at that approaches Coptic in a
          simpler or more straightforward fashion than Lambdin's.

          cheers,
          Bill
          ______________________
          William Arnal
          University of Regina
        • smithandp
          What about Lance Eccles Introductory Coptic Reader: Extracts from the Gospel of Thomas with Full Grammatical Explanations,published by Dunwoody Press? Andrew
          Message 4 of 19 , Mar 22, 2006
            What about Lance Eccles' Introductory Coptic Reader: Extracts from
            the Gospel of Thomas with Full Grammatical Explanations,published by
            Dunwoody Press?

            Andrew

            --- In gthomas@yahoogroups.com, "William Arnal" <warnal@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > Judy Redman writes:
            >
            > >Coptic! The language in which these reveiws is written makes me
            suspect
            > >that neither of the reviewers would have difficulty with Lambdin's
            > >language,
            > >however, so their enthusiasm doesn't guarantee that Layton's book is
            > >simpler. :-)
            >
            > In fact, it's not. Lambdin's book is a teaching grammar -- Layton's
            is a
            > reference grammar, and is MUCH more complex (and much less suited to
            > LEARNING the language) than is Lambdin's. I am not aware of ANY
            > English-language text that's worth looking at that approaches Coptic
            in a
            > simpler or more straightforward fashion than Lambdin's.
            >
            > cheers,
            > Bill
            > ______________________
            > William Arnal
            > University of Regina
            >
          • Wade Greiner
            ... other ... I ... perhaps ... I asked April (the Coptic teacher in the family) and she wrote me ... Wade, here are the resources for the Coptic grammar
            Message 5 of 19 , Mar 22, 2006
              --- In gthomas@yahoogroups.com, "smithandp" <smithand44@...> wrote:
              >
              > Could anyone point me to an edition of the Exegesis On the Soul,
              other
              > than the text in the Layton ed. Nag Hammadi Codex II volume, which
              I
              > already have? And to a bibliography on the Exegesis On the Soul?
              >
              > Also, could someone recommend an introduction to Coptic other than
              > Lambdin's? I'm looking for something to supplement Lambdin's,
              perhaps
              > a little more straightforward or simpler, but in any case something
              > that I can study in parallel to Lambdin.
              >
              > Andrew Phillip Smith
              >

              I asked April (the Coptic teacher in the family) and she wrote me
              this:

              >>>>>>>>>

              Wade, here are the resources for the Coptic grammar question.



              Lambdin is a learning grammar book, readily available for a
              reasonable price. It's not a reference grammar, and it breaks the
              language down into bits and pieces distributed here and there. So
              it is difficult to gain a large overview of the language from the
              book. For that one has to consult one of the reference grammars.

              Shisha-Halevy has an inductive grammar book, which is probably best
              used in conjunction with Lambdin or after the student already is
              familiar with some Coptic grammar. It's called, Coptic Grammatical
              Chrestomathy: A Course for Academic and Private Study. It's pricey,
              put out by Peeters: Leuven. I might add that it has terrific charts
              in the back of the book which give a nice sense of the workings of
              Coptic as a whole. I'd say the same about Layton's Chrestomathy.
              Both of these are excellent, but tough to use as the sole
              introductory grammar.

              As for reference grammars, Layton's second edition, A Coptic
              Grammar, is excellent and available, but very expensive. There
              are, of course, the old German standbys by Walter Till, and Georg
              Steindorff. Till has the advantage of presenting different
              dialects. But I don't believe these are in press still.

              April DeConick

              >>>>>>>>>>

              Wade
            • smithandp
              Has anyone used C.C. Walters An Elementary Coptic Grammar of the Sahidic Dialect? I ve been using Lambdin for a while, but I just don t find it very engaging,
              Message 6 of 19 , Mar 23, 2006
                Has anyone used C.C. Walters' An Elementary Coptic Grammar of the
                Sahidic Dialect? I've been using Lambdin for a while, but I just don't
                find it very engaging, and I'm just looking for another basic
                introduction that I can use in parallel with Lambdin to whip up my
                enthusiasm a bit.

                Andrew
              • Simon Gathercole
                For those who are unaware of it, Plumley s reference grammar is on the web. It s not as good as Layton, but is free.
                Message 7 of 19 , Mar 23, 2006
                  For those who are unaware of it, Plumley's reference grammar is on the web.
                  It's not as good as Layton, but is free.

                  http://www.metalog.org/files/plumley/html/home.htm

                  Simon



                  ------------
                  Dr Simon Gathercole
                  Senior Lecturer in New Testament
                  University of Aberdeen
                • Judy Redman
                  I *think* that CC Waters is the grammar that my Coptic lecturer abandoned in favour of Lambin. If it s the book I m thinking of, I was given a photocopy of
                  Message 8 of 19 , Mar 23, 2006
                    I *think* that CC Waters is the grammar that my Coptic lecturer abandoned in
                    favour of Lambin. If it's the book I'm thinking of, I was given a photocopy
                    of the 1974 edition, which is in my office at the university.

                    Unfortunately, I won't be back there until Monday, but I had a look at it
                    this morning in response to this thread and decided that Lambdin was
                    significantly easier to follow as well as much better laid out. A more
                    recent edition could have a better rendition of the Coptic text than the
                    copy I have, but is it still in print? I couldn't find it on Amazon or
                    Abebooks.

                    If no-one else makes any comment between now and Monday, I will check and
                    make sure that I am talking about the right book and if so, I can at least
                    describe it.

                    Judy

                    --
                    "One can easily understand a child who is afraid of the dark. The real
                    tragedy of life is when grown men and women are afraid of the light." -
                    Plato

                    Rev Judy Redman
                    Uniting Church Chaplain
                    University of New England
                    Armidale 2351
                    ph: +61 2 6773 3739
                    fax: +61 2 6773 3749
                    web: http://www.une.edu.au/campus/chaplaincy/uniting/
                    email: jredman@...


                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: gthomas@yahoogroups.com
                    > [mailto:gthomas@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of smithandp
                    > Sent: Thursday, 23 March 2006 9:17 PM
                    > To: gthomas@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: [GTh] Re: Introductory Coptic Grammars
                    >
                    > Has anyone used C.C. Walters' An Elementary Coptic Grammar of
                    > the Sahidic Dialect? I've been using Lambdin for a while, but
                    > I just don't find it very engaging, and I'm just looking for
                    > another basic introduction that I can use in parallel with
                    > Lambdin to whip up my enthusiasm a bit.
                    >
                    > Andrew
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                    > Gospel of Thomas Homepage: http://home.epix.net/~miser17/Thomas.html
                    > To unsubscribe from this group,
                    > send a blank email to gthomas-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Michael Grondin
                    ... Hi Andrew, I have a copy of Walters, 2nd edition (1983). It s much less comprehensive than Lambdin - only 80 pages and no glossary to speak of. (Lambdin s
                    Message 9 of 19 , Mar 23, 2006
                      > Has anyone used C.C. Walters' An Elementary Coptic Grammar of the
                      > Sahidic Dialect? I've been using Lambdin for a while, but I just don't
                      > find it very engaging, and I'm just looking for another basic
                      > introduction that I can use in parallel with Lambdin to whip up my
                      > enthusiasm a bit.

                      Hi Andrew,

                      I have a copy of Walters, 2nd edition (1983). It's much less comprehensive
                      than Lambdin - only 80 pages and no glossary to speak of. (Lambdin's
                      glossary alone is 150 pages). I don't think you'll find it any more
                      engaging. Seems to be just about as dull, if not more so.

                      Best,
                      Mike
                    • CJED5@aol.com
                      In a message dated 23/03/2006 16:36:11 GMT Standard Time, mwgrondin@comcast.net writes: I have a copy of Walters, 2nd edition (1983). It s much less
                      Message 10 of 19 , Mar 23, 2006
                        In a message dated 23/03/2006 16:36:11 GMT Standard Time,
                        mwgrondin@... writes:

                        I have a copy of Walters, 2nd edition (1983). It's much less comprehensive than Lambdin - only 80 pages and no glossary to speak of. (Lambdin's glossary alone is 150 pages). I don't think you'll find it any more engaging. Seems to be just about as dull, if not more so.


                        What would you recommend for a beginner, please?


                        [J.S. Chandler]
                      • Michael Grondin
                        ... Personally, I d recommend Lambdin, for several reasons. Not only is it a standard college text, but it has a generous glossary suitable for use outside the
                        Message 11 of 19 , Mar 23, 2006
                          > What would you recommend for a beginner, please?
                          > [J.S. Chandler]

                          Personally, I'd recommend Lambdin, for several reasons. Not only is it a
                          standard college text, but it has a generous glossary suitable for use
                          outside the confines of the text, and is laid out in 30 lessons (with
                          exercises) which are small enough that one can proceed at a lesson-per-day
                          clip for self-study. As Andrew indicated, it isn't particularly exciting,
                          but I don't know of any that are.

                          Mike Grondin
                        • CJED5@aol.com
                          In a message dated 24/03/2006 00:11:12 GMT Standard Time, ... Thank you. It is time to go for it, I think, as I don t really feel happy about being dependent
                          Message 12 of 19 , Mar 24, 2006
                            In a message dated 24/03/2006 00:11:12 GMT Standard Time,
                            mwgrondin@... writes:

                            > Personally, I'd recommend Lambdin, for


                            Thank you. It is time to go for it, I think, as I don't really feel happy about being dependent on translations.

                            [C.J. Chandler]

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Michael Grondin
                            ... Great! For serious study of a text, there s no substitute for the original language. In the absence of knowing the language, an interlinear is very helpful
                            Message 13 of 19 , Mar 24, 2006
                              > Thank you. It is time to go for it, I think, as I don't really feel happy
                              > about being dependent on translations.
                              >
                              > [C.J. Chandler]

                              Great! For serious study of a text, there's no substitute for the original
                              language. In the absence of knowing the language, an interlinear is very
                              helpful in identifying key words which can then be looked up for range of
                              meaning in a source-language dictionary, but interlinears have their
                              limitations. They won't tell you, for example, that Coptic has no true
                              passive voice - and no singular neuter grammatical gender (all nouns and
                              pronouns are either masculine, feminine, or plural). In any case, Lambdin's
                              glossary alone is worth the price. It's the next best thing to Crum that
                              I've seen, and much more user-friendly.

                              Mike G.
                              p.s., Does anyone have Eccles' book?
                            • CJED5@aol.com
                              In a message dated 24/03/2006 20:36:42 GMT Standard Time, ... Thank you. No true passive? That s interesting! Now I m intrigued. I m looking forward to
                              Message 14 of 19 , Mar 24, 2006
                                In a message dated 24/03/2006 20:36:42 GMT Standard Time,
                                mwgrondin@... writes:

                                > They won't tell you, for example, that Coptic has no true passive
                                > voice - and no singular neuter grammatical gender (all nouns and
                                > pronouns are either masculine, feminine, or plural). In any case,
                                > Lambdin's glossary alone is worth the price. It's the next best
                                > thing to Crum that I've seen, and much more user-friendly.


                                Thank you.

                                No true passive? That's interesting! Now I'm intrigued.

                                I'm looking forward to getting started!

                                [C.J. Chandler]


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Michael Grondin
                                ... The note on my site about this is as follows: Some un-English-like features of Coptic: (3) Coptic has no true passive voice (although it does have some
                                Message 15 of 19 , Mar 27, 2006
                                  > No true passive? That's interesting! Now I'm intrigued.
                                  >
                                  > [C.J. Chandler]

                                  The note on my site about this is as follows:

                                  Some un-English-like features of Coptic:

                                  (3) Coptic has no true passive voice (although it does have some
                                  essentially-passive verbs). Where we would say "He was begotten", the Coptic
                                  says "They begot him", the passive voice being assumed if the word 'they'
                                  lacks a referent. Obviously, this introduces an element of ambiguity, since
                                  the choice between the active meaning and the passive one depends on the
                                  presence or absence of a referent for 'they'. In these cases, I have always
                                  used the active voice, on the grounds that (1) if pieces of Thomas are moved
                                  around, a seemingly-missing referent may be supplied (or an existing one
                                  removed), and (2) translating in the active voice more nearly captures the
                                  ambiguous flavor of the original, anyway.

                                  (Ref: http://www.geocities.com/mwgrondin/n_oddft.htm )

                                  Another example, 3.4. Literally, "When you know yourselves, then THEY WILL
                                  KNOW YOU", but translated "then you will become known". It's unfortunate if
                                  someone takes the literal at face value, and tries to imagine some unnamed
                                  "they" lurking around, but the only way that I can see to prevent this is to
                                  essentially hide that feature of the original by using something like
                                  '(will-become-known)' - the parens indicating non-literality - for that
                                  verb-phrase. I may end up doing that, but I'm not yet wholly convinced that
                                  that's the way to go, and anyway it's not easy to go through and make all
                                  the necessary changes at this point. (If I thought the interlinear was in
                                  wide use, and particularly if an academic user requested such a change in
                                  order to use it in classes, say, that'd be a different story.)

                                  Best wishes,
                                  Mike Grondin
                                • Gerry
                                  ... Hello Mike. I ve lurked here awhile, and been a fan of your interlinear site for years. I picked up Eccles _Introductory Coptic Reader_ quite by accident
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Mar 29, 2006
                                    --- In gthomas@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Grondin" <mwgrondin@...>
                                    wrote:
                                    >
                                    > [. . . ]
                                    >
                                    > Mike G.
                                    > p.s., Does anyone have Eccles' book?
                                    >


                                    Hello Mike.

                                    I've lurked here awhile, and been a fan of your interlinear site for
                                    years.

                                    I picked up Eccles' _Introductory Coptic Reader_ quite by accident
                                    one day (years ago) at Barnes & Noble. I say that only because of
                                    the unusual price sticker affixed to the front of the book, the
                                    residue of which I never could completely remove from the cover. It
                                    struck me as something that had come to that bookseller by some
                                    irregular means, but regardless of its provenance, I viewed the
                                    chance discovery as my gain.

                                    The book is terribly short, covering only 40 of the sayings from
                                    GTh. Rather than actually serving as an "interlinear," each of the
                                    passages included by the author appears first in Coptic, then in
                                    English translation, and then in an explanatory breakdown by words
                                    and phrases, as encountered in each portion of the text. Eccles
                                    mentions that he sought to order those verses in such a way as to
                                    simplify for the reader the presentation of numerous grammatical
                                    points. In effect, while it is really nothing like a "Grammar," I
                                    have found it valuable simply as a convenient resource for examining
                                    the morphological complexities of Coptic constructions.

                                    Gerry Ballance
                                    Roanoke Island, North Carolina
                                  • Michael Grondin
                                    ... Thanks for saying so, Gerry. It means a lot to me, especially coming from a person who knows Coptic as well as you evidently do. ... What I m wondering is
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Mar 31, 2006
                                      [Gerry Ballance]:
                                      > Hello Mike.
                                      > I've lurked here awhile, and been a fan of your interlinear site for
                                      > years.

                                      Thanks for saying so, Gerry. It means a lot to me, especially coming from a
                                      person who knows Coptic as well as you evidently do.

                                      > [Eccles'] book is terribly short, covering only 40 of the sayings from
                                      > GTh.

                                      What I'm wondering is whether he covers 77.1. As you know, there's an
                                      unreferenced third person plural there, but it's not a passive construction.
                                      (I have it as "I am the light - the one which is upon all of them.") This
                                      would make sense if it was, say, appended to the saying about the 24
                                      prophets, since they would be the "them", but as it stands it doesn't make
                                      much sense to me. (If what was intended was "I am the light which is over
                                      everything", why not use P-THRef as it's used immediately following?.) What
                                      do you and/or Eccles make of it?

                                      Regards,
                                      Mike Grondin
                                    • Gerry
                                      ... coming from a ... Oh, I m hardly an expert, Mike. My lifelong, geeky fascination with languages has led me to dabble in the study of a number of them, but
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Apr 5, 2006
                                        --- In gthomas@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Grondin" <mwgrondin@...>
                                        wrote:
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Thanks for saying so, Gerry. It means a lot to me, especially
                                        coming from a
                                        > person who knows Coptic as well as you evidently do.
                                        >


                                        Oh, I'm hardly an expert, Mike. My lifelong, geeky fascination with
                                        languages has led me to dabble in the study of a number of them, but
                                        I've only gained some degree of proficiency in a few (all modern).
                                        While I've been trying for years to acquire the materials necessary
                                        to make it possible for me to teach myself Coptic, it is only in
                                        recent months that I finally have what I consider to be adequate
                                        resources. Now, I simply need the time required to devote to that
                                        endeavor. Unfortunately, thanks to work and other demands in my
                                        personal life, spare time is something that has been quite scarce for
                                        me, so my mission will undoubtedly continue to be a slow process,
                                        just as my involvement with Internet groups seems to have become
                                        relegated to a few moments on my day off.


                                        > What I'm wondering is whether he covers 77.1. As you know, there's
                                        an
                                        > unreferenced third person plural there, but it's not a passive
                                        construction.
                                        > (I have it as "I am the light - the one which is upon all of
                                        them.") This
                                        > would make sense if it was, say, appended to the saying about the 24
                                        > prophets, since they would be the "them", but as it stands it
                                        doesn't make
                                        > much sense to me. (If what was intended was "I am the light which
                                        is over
                                        > everything", why not use P-THRef as it's used immediately
                                        following?.) What
                                        > do you and/or Eccles make of it?
                                        >
                                        > Regards,
                                        > Mike Grondin
                                        >



                                        Sorry to say that Eccles does not cover that saying. I'm not sure
                                        how Marvin Meyer's translation is received here, but my acquaintance
                                        with his book on the Gospel of Thomas goes waaaay back, and I
                                        occasionally still find myself resonating with his renderings in
                                        instances where others leave me cold. Here's that entire passage:

                                        77. Jesus said, "I am the light that is over all things. I am all:
                                        from me all came forth, and to me all attained. Split a piece of
                                        wood; I am there. Lift up the stone, and you will find me there."
                                        ——http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/gosthom.html

                                        I would have to say that it makes more sense to me as it stands in
                                        the Coptic. How exactly Meyer viewed the technical particulars for
                                        his rendering is something that I could not answer. I know that
                                        Lambdin says that "THR" must take a resumptive suffix, and it does
                                        indeed match the same pronoun in the preceding clause (eT-2Ijw-OY),
                                        so maybe the question would be better focused on finding a referent
                                        for that previous instance of "–OY." I am inclined to wonder if
                                        something like a prospective referential function (rather than a
                                        retrospective one) could be applicable here. This would appear to be
                                        consistent with the remainder of that passage, as well as with
                                        Meyer's translation.

                                        As for "P-THRef," it seems to me that the connotation of "the All"
                                        would be lost if this phrase were also used for the first occurrence
                                        of "THR." For instance, if we were to have Jesus saying that he was
                                        the Light OVER the All, before saying that he WAS the All, then we
                                        either diminish the concept of "the All" or we leave ourselves with
                                        another contradiction. On a more technical basis, unless additional
                                        changes were made to the first part of 77.1, the expression "P-THRef"
                                        carries a definite article and a masculine singular suffix that would
                                        need to be reconciled somehow with the rest of that sentence. I
                                        don't see a way to accomplish that without altering the content to
                                        the point that it becomes unnecessarily redundant.

                                        Gerry
                                      • Judy Redman
                                        Hi everyone, A while ago, we had a discussion about Coptic grammars in which Ariel Shisha-Halevy s Coptic Grammatical Chrestomathy was mentioned as good,
                                        Message 19 of 19 , May 1, 2006
                                          Hi everyone,

                                          A while ago, we had a discussion about Coptic grammars in which Ariel
                                          Shisha-Halevy's "Coptic Grammatical Chrestomathy" was mentioned as good,
                                          but very expensive. In case anyone is interested, it is currently available
                                          through Abebooks.com at around $52 US, which from my perspective isn't
                                          horribly expensive.

                                          I now own a copy and would endorse April DeConick's assessment that although
                                          the author suggests that you could use it to teach yourself Coptic, it isn't
                                          really suitable for anyone who doesn't have at least the basics already. And
                                          also her assessment about the usefulness of the tables and glossaries in the
                                          back. Another rider, though: although it has a comprehenisve glossary of
                                          the gramatical terms used in it in the back, I think it would be more than a
                                          little daunting to anyone who has not had much exposure to the complexities
                                          of grammar.

                                          Judy

                                          --
                                          "One can easily understand a child who is afraid of the dark. The real
                                          tragedy of life is when grown men and women are afraid of the light." -
                                          Plato

                                          Rev Judy Redman
                                          Uniting Church Chaplain
                                          University of New England
                                          Armidale 2351
                                          ph: +61 2 6773 3739
                                          fax: +61 2 6773 3749
                                          web: http://www.une.edu.au/campus/chaplaincy/uniting/
                                          email: jredman@...
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