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Re: [GTh] In your presence (out)...

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  • Michael Grondin
    ... Sure, but if one takes, say, Strong s 6440 as the word in question, we also find in the presence of the people (Josh 4:11), in the presence of Saul ,
    Message 1 of 2 , Jan 25, 2006
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      [Benedict]:
      > Since gThomas uses the term "Mpemto ebol" in such peculiar ways which are
      > not easy to interpret, I suggest investigate potential interpretation with
      > related Hebrew/Aramaic expression. It may or may not help. In the OT
      > however, we are familiar with "In the presence of God" which is an
      > expression in Hebrew in a profound manner.

      Sure, but if one takes, say, Strong's 6440 as the word in question, we also
      find "in the presence of the people" (Josh 4:11), "in the presence of Saul",
      "in the presence of David", etc. As Strong's says with respect to that
      Hebrew word, "used in a great variety of applications (literal and
      figurative)." I don't think one has to go any further than that to realize
      that this particular theory has no chance of being right.

      Simon is quite correct to say that 'Mto ebol' is a common Coptic idiom.
      Contrary to what you say, it's not used in unusual or peculiar ways in
      GThom. What's confusing is the apparently-superfluous 'ebol'. It was a very
      common preposition, and not always used where it would make sense in
      English. But consider some expressions we ourselves use, such as 'finish
      off' or 'empty out'. There, too, the preposition is superfluous, yet we say
      such things (at least in this part of the world), maybe because they sound
      better, who knows? Crum notes that although 'ebol' was always used with
      'Mto' in Sahidic and Achmimic Coptic, it was generally dropped in Boharic -
      which may be taken as indication that native speakers increasingly
      recognized it as unncessary.

      That one can find _some_ contexts wherein 'Mto ebol' was used in connection
      with God or the divine isn't suprising and proves nothing - any more than
      pointing to one example of the use of Strong's Hebrew word #6440 means
      anything - unless you can show that it was _only_ used in such contexts -
      which can't be done because it wasn't.

      Whew, I'm glad this letter is finally finished off. Now I can send it out.
      (;-)

      Mike Grondin

      The Coptic Gospel of Thomas, saying-by-saying
      http://www.geocities.com/mwgrondin/sayings.htm
      The Coptic Gospel of Thomas in Context
      http://www.geocities.com/mwgrondin/index.htm
    • benedictlo1
      Good discussion, Mike. But we need to consider limitation of a language and translation barriers. Does anybody have comments on whether The Living One in your
      Message 2 of 2 , Jan 26, 2006
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        Good discussion, Mike. But we need to consider limitation of a
        language and translation barriers. Does anybody have comments on
        whether "The Living One in your presence (out)" in L52, L59, & L111
        includes "the baby-selves (7 days old)" or only Yashua by considering the 114 GThomas sayings as a whole?

        Benedict
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