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Re: A preliminarily work in GHoly12 associated with GThomas (parallels?)

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  • benedictlo1
    ... discuss them. ... I am sure that I have not exhausted all the potential correlated materials. So let me post the first set of my problems below. Your
    Message 1 of 6 , Jan 18, 2006
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      > Hi benedict,
      >
      > If you post the parallels between Thomas and GHoly12 we could
      discuss them.
      >[snip]
      > Andrew

      I am sure that I have not exhausted all the potential correlated
      materials. So let me post the first set of my problems below. Your
      and/or others' help are greatly appreciated.

      Benedict

      [ I use " xxxx " to indicate correlected text. ]
      =========================================
      GH12 - 88:5
      "And Jesus said, I stood in the midst of the world, and in
      the flesh was I seen and heard, and I found all men glutted with their
      own pleasures, and drunk with their own follies, and none found I
      hungry or athirst for the wisdom which is of God. My soul grieveth
      over the sons and daughters of men because they are blind in their
      heart, and in their soul are they deaf and hear not my voice."

      GTh – 28 (Greek)
      "Jesus saith: I stood in the midst of the world, and in the flesh was
      I seen of them, and I found and men drunken, and none found I athirst
      among them, and my soul grieveth over the sons of men because they are
      blind in their heart."

      ==========================
      GH12 – 27:12
      …. But a city which is built foursquare, enclosed in a circle or on
      the top of a hill, and "established on a rock, can neither fall" nor
      be hidden.

      GH12 – 39:6
      Again, the Kingdom of Heaven is like unto a City "built foursquare on
      the top of a high hill, and established on a rock, and strong in its
      surrounding wall", and its towers and its gates, which lie to the
      north, and to the south, and to the east, and to the west. Such a
      city falleth not, neither can it be hidden,…

      GTh – 32
      A city built upon the top of a hill "and fortified, can neither fall"
      nor be hidden.

      ============================
      GH12 – 13:5
      And he said: Verily I say unto you, No prophet is accepted in his own
      home or in his own country, "neither doth a physician work cures upon
      them that know him."

      GTh - 31
      Jesus said, A prophet is not … . "Nor does a physican perform healings
      for those who know him."

      ============================
      GH12 - 39:5
      Again, the Kingdom of Heaven is like unto a woman who taketh of the
      incorruptible leaven and hideth it in three measures of meal, till the
      whole is leavened, and being baked by fire, "becometh one loaf." …

      GTh - 96
      Jesus said, The Father's kingdom is like a woman. She took a ..., and
      "made it into large loaves of bread"...

      ============================
      GH12 - 19:6
      "Raise the Stone, and there thou shall find me. Cleave the wood, and
      there am I." For in the fire and in the water even as in every living
      form, God is manifest as it's Life and it's Substance.

      GTh – 30 (Greek)
      Jesus said, …, I say, I am with him. "Lift the stone and there you
      will find me. Split the wood and I am there."

      ============================
      (The following ones are not in the sense of words but in meaning)
      GH12 - 64:7
      "From the Eternal they flow, to the Eternal they return." The spirit
      to Spirit, soul to Soul, mind to Mind, sense to Sense, life to Life,
      form to Form, dust to Dust.

      GH12 - 94:2
      "As all creatures come forth from the unseen into this world, so they
      return to the unseen, and so will they come again till they be purified."


      GTh - 49
      Jesus said: Congratulations to those who are alone and chosen, for you
      will find the kingdom. "For you have come from it, and you will return
      there again."

      GTh - 77
      Jesus said: "I am the light that is over all things. I am all: from me
      all came forth, and to me all attained."
      =============================================
    • smithandp
      Benedict, The simple answer is that Ousley used the Oxyrhynchus Greek fragments of Thomas published by Grenfell and Hunt in 1898 and 1904. The sayings below
      Message 2 of 6 , Jan 19, 2006
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        Benedict,

        The simple answer is that Ousley used the Oxyrhynchus Greek fragments
        of Thomas published by Grenfell and Hunt in 1898 and 1904. The sayings
        below that aren't in the Greek Thomas fragments have synoptic
        parallels which would have been Ouseley's source.

        Best Wishes

        Andrew

        --- In gthomas@yahoogroups.com, "benedictlo1" <benedictlo1@y...> wrote:
        >
        > > Hi benedict,
        > >
        > > If you post the parallels between Thomas and GHoly12 we could
        > discuss them.
        > >[snip]
        > > Andrew
        >
        > I am sure that I have not exhausted all the potential correlated
        > materials. So let me post the first set of my problems below. Your
        > and/or others' help are greatly appreciated.
        >
        > Benedict
        >
        > [ I use " xxxx " to indicate correlected text. ]
        > =========================================
        > GH12 - 88:5
        > "And Jesus said, I stood in the midst of the world, and in
        > the flesh was I seen and heard, and I found all men glutted with their
        > own pleasures, and drunk with their own follies, and none found I
        > hungry or athirst for the wisdom which is of God. My soul grieveth
        > over the sons and daughters of men because they are blind in their
        > heart, and in their soul are they deaf and hear not my voice."
        >
        > GTh – 28 (Greek)
        > "Jesus saith: I stood in the midst of the world, and in the flesh was
        > I seen of them, and I found and men drunken, and none found I athirst
        > among them, and my soul grieveth over the sons of men because they are
        > blind in their heart."
        >
        > ==========================
        > GH12 – 27:12
        > …. But a city which is built foursquare, enclosed in a circle or on
        > the top of a hill, and "established on a rock, can neither fall" nor
        > be hidden.
        >
        > GH12 – 39:6
        > Again, the Kingdom of Heaven is like unto a City "built foursquare on
        > the top of a high hill, and established on a rock, and strong in its
        > surrounding wall", and its towers and its gates, which lie to the
        > north, and to the south, and to the east, and to the west. Such a
        > city falleth not, neither can it be hidden,…
        >
        > GTh – 32
        > A city built upon the top of a hill "and fortified, can neither fall"
        > nor be hidden.
        >
        > ============================
        > GH12 – 13:5
        > And he said: Verily I say unto you, No prophet is accepted in his own
        > home or in his own country, "neither doth a physician work cures upon
        > them that know him."
        >
        > GTh - 31
        > Jesus said, A prophet is not … . "Nor does a physican perform healings
        > for those who know him."
        >
        > ============================
        > GH12 - 39:5
        > Again, the Kingdom of Heaven is like unto a woman who taketh of the
        > incorruptible leaven and hideth it in three measures of meal, till the
        > whole is leavened, and being baked by fire, "becometh one loaf." …
        >
        > GTh - 96
        > Jesus said, The Father's kingdom is like a woman. She took a ..., and
        > "made it into large loaves of bread"...
        >
        > ============================
        > GH12 - 19:6
        > "Raise the Stone, and there thou shall find me. Cleave the wood, and
        > there am I." For in the fire and in the water even as in every living
        > form, God is manifest as it's Life and it's Substance.
        >
        > GTh – 30 (Greek)
        > Jesus said, …, I say, I am with him. "Lift the stone and there you
        > will find me. Split the wood and I am there."
        >
        > ============================
        > (The following ones are not in the sense of words but in meaning)
        > GH12 - 64:7
        > "From the Eternal they flow, to the Eternal they return." The spirit
        > to Spirit, soul to Soul, mind to Mind, sense to Sense, life to Life,
        > form to Form, dust to Dust.
        >
        > GH12 - 94:2
        > "As all creatures come forth from the unseen into this world, so they
        > return to the unseen, and so will they come again till they be
        purified."
        >
        >
        > GTh - 49
        > Jesus said: Congratulations to those who are alone and chosen, for you
        > will find the kingdom. "For you have come from it, and you will return
        > there again."
        >
        > GTh - 77
        > Jesus said: "I am the light that is over all things. I am all: from me
        > all came forth, and to me all attained."
        > =============================================
        >
      • benedictlo1
        ... Andrew: I believe others investigators including myself would have a similar answer. To be fair, we need to find the earliest version of GH12 (1892-189?),
        Message 3 of 6 , Jan 19, 2006
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          > Benedict,
          >
          > The simple answer is that Ousley used the Oxyrhynchus Greek fragments
          > of Thomas published by Grenfell and Hunt in 1898 and 1904. The sayings
          > below that aren't in the Greek Thomas fragments have synoptic
          > parallels which would have been Ouseley's source.
          >
          > Best Wishes
          >
          > Andrew


          Andrew:

          I believe others investigators including myself would have a similar
          answer. To be fair, we need to find the earliest version of GH12
          (1892-189?), to prove that these were not in there and junk it.

          However, personally I like several chapters made up or collected from
          somewhere in GH12. In terms of quality, some of these are much better
          than those collected in old old days by some unknown persons. But many
          missionaries from the West come, proclaim that the collection is
          nothing but the TRUTH, and push everybody to worship it.

          One major reason that I brought GThomas to Chinese people's attention
          is because its unequaled quality. In addition, its spiritual approch
          in some way is very similar to the Zen but 500 years earlier.


          Benedict
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