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Re: A discovered link?

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  • Racheal
    ... word TOPOS, ... candidate ... and you ... Greek ... place to lay ... MA, not ... 64, and 68), ... said to ... grammatical ... disciples do in ... 24.1 and
    Message 1 of 4 , Sep 24, 2005
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      --- In gthomas@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Grondin" <mwgrondin@c...>
      wrote:

      >
      > The original words are different, though. L24.1 uses the Greek
      word TOPOS,
      > while 30 uses the Coptic word MA (twice). Also, L30 isn't the only
      candidate
      > for a more direct answer to 24.1. Interestingly, one of the other
      > candidates - 77.3 ("Split a timber, I am there; pick up the stone
      and you
      > will discover me there") - is attached to the end of L30 in the
      Greek
      > version.
      >
      > Another candidate is L86 (particularly, "the Son of Man has no
      place to lay
      > his head and rest"). However, here, as in 77.3, the word used is
      MA, not
      > TOPOS. TOPOS occurs 4 times in the text other than 24.1 (4, 60,
      64, and 68),
      > but none of them seem to be good candidates for an answer to 24.1.
      >
      > The peculiar thing about L14 is that it begins with the words 'IS
      said to
      > them...', but there's no "them" in immediate view. This lends
      grammatical
      > credence to a joining up of 6A with 14, because in 6A the
      disciples do in
      > fact ask the four questions directly answered in 14. In contrast,
      24.1 and
      > 24.2 are properly gramatically connected, so if we separate the
      two of them
      > and regard 24.1 as answered elsewhere, then we have to find a
      matching
      > question for 24.2 elsewhere as well. This is a problem not present
      in the
      > 6A-14 pairing.
      >
      Mike

      I agree with you about the other possible answers. Notice the theme
      question of who jesus is and where he is, is repeated a few times
      with more specific answers such as the one where Salome asks Jesus
      who he is, or when the disciples ask when it will be possible for
      them to look on him.

      The connection of 24.2 to 24.1 the question of the place where Jesus
      is at is not there, 24.2 appears to be a generalised term refering
      to a man of light and furthermore the statement "He who has ears"
      sounds like a statement drawing attention to a more or further
      defining factor of a preceding statement such as the one commencing
      at Line 521 said JS75.

      STM "He who has ears" is a significant statement drawing special
      attention to certain concepts, such as if instead of being at the
      end of the fishermans parable in saying 8 it was the introduction to
      saying 9, the concept of the importance of paying attention could be
      found in 9.3 of putting roots to earth and ears to heaven.

      I am working on a backward theory at the moment trying to define
      some definite connections that may lend to further clues as to what
      the original writer/s may have had in mind. I am just in the early
      stages, but it never occurred to me to check the coptic/greek
      representation of the word (too distracted of late) so thankyou for
      your input.

      Racheal
    • Judy Redman
      Hi everyone, I have managed to get myself involved in helping with a Society of Biblical Literature project to develop a keyboard layout for Unicode Coptic
      Message 2 of 4 , Oct 11, 2005
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        Hi everyone,

        I have managed to get myself involved in helping with a Society of Biblical
        Literature project to develop a keyboard layout for Unicode Coptic fonts and
        am after some feedback. For those who (like me before I got involved) are
        not sure about the significance of this: each character in a Unicode font is
        assigned a unique code, and this makes it possible for scholars and
        publishers to exchange texts between Unicode environments without converting
        texts or losing data.

        What I am helping with is working out which characters to assign to which
        keys on a keyboard to make them user-friendly.

        Since I started learning Coptic, I have been using the (non-Unicode) fonts
        made available on the Coptic Orthodox Church website
        (http://www.copticchurch.net/coptic_fonts/), which they are proposing as an
        international standard for Coptic.As a touch typist, I find their keyboard
        layout find very user-friendly. It was also very quick to learn, having
        been designed to be used by people who type a lot of Coptic, so I have been
        suggesting that this would be the best layout to use. The technical person
        who has designed the provisional layout however says the layout he is
        proposing is "based on the Greek Polytonic layout...[because] I suspect that
        scholars of Coptic are likely to be familiar with that, and would prefer
        something closely corresponding to it for Coptic too." He asks "Would those
        scholars who are already familiar with the international-standard Greek
        Polytonic mapping outnumber those who are familiar with the Church one?"

        I have no idea, and I also wonder how important this is for typists who
        don't touch type. So, can I have some feedback, please?

        Are people on this list familiar with the Greek Polytonic keyboard layout?
        And if you are, how important would it be for a unicode Coptic keyboard to
        have the characters common to the Greek and Coptic alphabets on the same
        keys in both?

        And, incidentally, does anyone here use uppercase and lowercase in Coptic?
        The unicode font with which we are working (New Athena) has both, but I
        wasn't aware that uppercase was ever used. The characters look the same,
        except for one that only occurs in Bohairic - they're just bigger.

        And anyone who would like to be involved more directly would be welcome. I
        made the mistake of complaining on the SBL fonts list that the keyboard
        mapping for the existing Coptic font on the SBL site was very
        non-typist-friendly and got invited to help out and suddenly I am the
        resident Coptic expert after four semesters of working with the language and
        very little familiarity with any text other than Gospel of Thomas!!!!!!

        Regards

        Judy

        --
        " Let us forever remember that the sense for the sacred is as vital to us as
        the light of the sun." - Abraham Joshua Heschel, 1944

        Rev Judy Redman
        Uniting Church Chaplain
        University of New England
        Armidale 2351
        ph: +61 2 6773 3739
        fax: +61 2 6773 3749
        web: http://www.une.edu.au/campus/chaplaincy/uniting/
        email: jredman@...
      • Andrew Bernhard
        Dear Judy, Thank you for posting information about Coptic fonts. This must be an issue everyone who has worked in Coptic struggles with. My suspicion is that
        Message 3 of 4 , Oct 11, 2005
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          Dear Judy,

          Thank you for posting information about Coptic fonts. This must be an issue everyone who has worked in Coptic struggles with.

          My suspicion is that scholars interested in an SBL keyboard layout for Coptic will overwhelmingly be familiar with the Greek polytonic layout because they've done so much work in Greek.

          For myself, I must throw my support behind your technical person. Having used various similar keyboard layouts for typing polytonic Greek over the years, I would be absolutely mortified to have to learn an entirely new keyboard for Coptic. I've learned which keys I use to type which Greek characters and would find it severely annoying to be have to type the _very same letters_ with different keys in different fonts. If I type a sigma with the "s" key in a Greek font, why should I have to use the "c" key to type it with my Coptic font. This doesn't seem very intuitive to me. I'd likely find it so annoying that I'd want to discard the system altogether.

          For what it's worth, those are my thoughts on the matter.

          Thanks for letting me know about the New Athena font. Unicode Coptic fonts are quite rare these days and I'm appreciative to have learned about this one.

          Best,
          Andrew


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