Re: [GTh] A discovered link?
> It has been suggested before that saying 14 could be seen as anThe original words are different, though. L24.1 uses the Greek word TOPOS,
> answer to saying 6, in the same light I would like to pose that
> saying 30 appears to be an answer to the question in saying 24,
> as 24 asks about the place where Jesus is and in saying 30 Jesus is
> refering to the place where he can be found. It still appears to be
> quite a cryptic way to answer, but I can see a definite connection
> here especially when reading Mikes translation from the coptic, both
> verses are concerned with the "place" Jesus is at.
while 30 uses the Coptic word MA (twice). Also, L30 isn't the only candidate
for a more direct answer to 24.1. Interestingly, one of the other
candidates - 77.3 ("Split a timber, I am there; pick up the stone and you
will discover me there") - is attached to the end of L30 in the Greek
Another candidate is L86 (particularly, "the Son of Man has no place to lay
his head and rest"). However, here, as in 77.3, the word used is MA, not
TOPOS. TOPOS occurs 4 times in the text other than 24.1 (4, 60, 64, and 68),
but none of them seem to be good candidates for an answer to 24.1.
The peculiar thing about L14 is that it begins with the words 'IS said to
them...', but there's no "them" in immediate view. This lends grammatical
credence to a joining up of 6A with 14, because in 6A the disciples do in
fact ask the four questions directly answered in 14. In contrast, 24.1 and
24.2 are properly gramatically connected, so if we separate the two of them
and regard 24.1 as answered elsewhere, then we have to find a matching
question for 24.2 elsewhere as well. This is a problem not present in the
- --- In email@example.com, "Michael Grondin" <mwgrondin@c...>
> The original words are different, though. L24.1 uses the Greek
> while 30 uses the Coptic word MA (twice). Also, L30 isn't the onlycandidate
> for a more direct answer to 24.1. Interestingly, one of the otherand you
> candidates - 77.3 ("Split a timber, I am there; pick up the stone
> will discover me there") - is attached to the end of L30 in theGreek
> version.place to lay
> Another candidate is L86 (particularly, "the Son of Man has no
> his head and rest"). However, here, as in 77.3, the word used isMA, not
> TOPOS. TOPOS occurs 4 times in the text other than 24.1 (4, 60,64, and 68),
> but none of them seem to be good candidates for an answer to 24.1.said to
> The peculiar thing about L14 is that it begins with the words 'IS
> them...', but there's no "them" in immediate view. This lendsgrammatical
> credence to a joining up of 6A with 14, because in 6A thedisciples do in
> fact ask the four questions directly answered in 14. In contrast,24.1 and
> 24.2 are properly gramatically connected, so if we separate thetwo of them
> and regard 24.1 as answered elsewhere, then we have to find amatching
> question for 24.2 elsewhere as well. This is a problem not presentin the
> 6A-14 pairing.Mike
I agree with you about the other possible answers. Notice the theme
question of who jesus is and where he is, is repeated a few times
with more specific answers such as the one where Salome asks Jesus
who he is, or when the disciples ask when it will be possible for
them to look on him.
The connection of 24.2 to 24.1 the question of the place where Jesus
is at is not there, 24.2 appears to be a generalised term refering
to a man of light and furthermore the statement "He who has ears"
sounds like a statement drawing attention to a more or further
defining factor of a preceding statement such as the one commencing
at Line 521 said JS75.
STM "He who has ears" is a significant statement drawing special
attention to certain concepts, such as if instead of being at the
end of the fishermans parable in saying 8 it was the introduction to
saying 9, the concept of the importance of paying attention could be
found in 9.3 of putting roots to earth and ears to heaven.
I am working on a backward theory at the moment trying to define
some definite connections that may lend to further clues as to what
the original writer/s may have had in mind. I am just in the early
stages, but it never occurred to me to check the coptic/greek
representation of the word (too distracted of late) so thankyou for
- Hi everyone,
I have managed to get myself involved in helping with a Society of Biblical
Literature project to develop a keyboard layout for Unicode Coptic fonts and
am after some feedback. For those who (like me before I got involved) are
not sure about the significance of this: each character in a Unicode font is
assigned a unique code, and this makes it possible for scholars and
publishers to exchange texts between Unicode environments without converting
texts or losing data.
What I am helping with is working out which characters to assign to which
keys on a keyboard to make them user-friendly.
Since I started learning Coptic, I have been using the (non-Unicode) fonts
made available on the Coptic Orthodox Church website
(http://www.copticchurch.net/coptic_fonts/), which they are proposing as an
international standard for Coptic.As a touch typist, I find their keyboard
layout find very user-friendly. It was also very quick to learn, having
been designed to be used by people who type a lot of Coptic, so I have been
suggesting that this would be the best layout to use. The technical person
who has designed the provisional layout however says the layout he is
proposing is "based on the Greek Polytonic layout...[because] I suspect that
scholars of Coptic are likely to be familiar with that, and would prefer
something closely corresponding to it for Coptic too." He asks "Would those
scholars who are already familiar with the international-standard Greek
Polytonic mapping outnumber those who are familiar with the Church one?"
I have no idea, and I also wonder how important this is for typists who
don't touch type. So, can I have some feedback, please?
Are people on this list familiar with the Greek Polytonic keyboard layout?
And if you are, how important would it be for a unicode Coptic keyboard to
have the characters common to the Greek and Coptic alphabets on the same
keys in both?
And, incidentally, does anyone here use uppercase and lowercase in Coptic?
The unicode font with which we are working (New Athena) has both, but I
wasn't aware that uppercase was ever used. The characters look the same,
except for one that only occurs in Bohairic - they're just bigger.
And anyone who would like to be involved more directly would be welcome. I
made the mistake of complaining on the SBL fonts list that the keyboard
mapping for the existing Coptic font on the SBL site was very
non-typist-friendly and got invited to help out and suddenly I am the
resident Coptic expert after four semesters of working with the language and
very little familiarity with any text other than Gospel of Thomas!!!!!!
" Let us forever remember that the sense for the sacred is as vital to us as
the light of the sun." - Abraham Joshua Heschel, 1944
Rev Judy Redman
Uniting Church Chaplain
University of New England
ph: +61 2 6773 3739
fax: +61 2 6773 3749
- Dear Judy,
Thank you for posting information about Coptic fonts. This must be an issue everyone who has worked in Coptic struggles with.
My suspicion is that scholars interested in an SBL keyboard layout for Coptic will overwhelmingly be familiar with the Greek polytonic layout because they've done so much work in Greek.
For myself, I must throw my support behind your technical person. Having used various similar keyboard layouts for typing polytonic Greek over the years, I would be absolutely mortified to have to learn an entirely new keyboard for Coptic. I've learned which keys I use to type which Greek characters and would find it severely annoying to be have to type the _very same letters_ with different keys in different fonts. If I type a sigma with the "s" key in a Greek font, why should I have to use the "c" key to type it with my Coptic font. This doesn't seem very intuitive to me. I'd likely find it so annoying that I'd want to discard the system altogether.
For what it's worth, those are my thoughts on the matter.
Thanks for letting me know about the New Athena font. Unicode Coptic fonts are quite rare these days and I'm appreciative to have learned about this one.
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