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Re: Thomas Parables and Pythagoras

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  • Karl
    Tom There has, of course, been lots of speculation as to where Pythagoras must have studied this or that (usually based on an invalid assumption that a
    Message 1 of 3 , Feb 19 10:00 AM
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      Tom

      There has, of course, been lots of speculation as to where Pythagoras
      must have studied this or that (usually based on an invalid
      assumption that a movement could not come up with these ideas on
      thier own and must have come from some society presupposed to
      be "superior"... which is of course patronistic). Egypt, India,
      Persia, Atlantis.... etc., have all been cited at some point or other
      as places where Pythagoras gained his knowledge of numbers.

      Not only do none of these have any historical backing, but (and here
      is the real kicker), the very notion that Pythagoras even cared much
      about math at all is not historically attested to. On the contrary,
      the branch of "Pythagoreanism" known as the "Arithmatikoi" was a
      later movement, and most critical works on the subject today present
      Pythagoras and the early Pythagoreans as a religious commune with no
      interest in numbers at all... or at least very little. Then, at some
      later point a legend ascribing certain numeric interests by
      Pythagoras fostered the invention of the arithmatikos as an alterior
      stance from the akousmatikos... with the mathmatical principles not
      being fully outined until it was developed by the Platonic Academies.

      Teachings borrowed from the later neo-Pythagorian Arithmatikoi is
      certainly a possibility.... speculation that it is from Pythagoras
      himself is very unlikely.

      Karl

      --- In gthomas@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Saunders" <tom@c...> wrote:
      >
      > Jim Bauer writes,
      >
      > Most historians of science believe that Leibnitz' "Monadology" was
      derived
      > from Hinduism, not Pythagorean mysticism.
      >
      > Clement mentions that Pythagoras studied the Hindu which would
      indicate to me that Pythagoras did study the Eastern philosophies. I
      am not defending Leibnitz here, or the source because it is
      fragmented between several other sources, as a compilation. There is
      no one source for Pythagoras.
      >
      > By the first century there were Eastern philosophies based upon the
      geometric shapes aligned with the I-Ching, and Yin and Yang dualism.
      This was an attempt to align man with the natural order of nature as
      they saw it, with heaven and earth. 'One' or the monad was the basis
      for these studies as the primary focus, in relation to duality, and
      geometric patterns, form. One, is the first position of the Eastern
      compass, and that is 'you' in the middle or monad of the four primary
      directions.
      >
      > What I see is the parables as a tool that is based upon the idea
      that we see Jesus wisdom as the monadic compass to guide us as
      members of the 'form' of the parable.
      >
      > This is a simple point, and may not go much farther than the idea
      of Jesus as the monad. On the other hand there may be further
      parallels that can be made to the idea of order, and form, in the
      process of Thomasine Gnosis, in concern to Pythagorean principles.
      Or, more likely a borrowed or bastardized version of Pythagoras, that
      only touches on some of his lost theories.
      >
      > If the idea that the parables and saying 114, are to be devoid from
      the body of the Thomas text, is correct, then that makes ten units
      you could put around the 'frame' of the parable, forming a box, of
      Jesus Wisdom. You virtually wrap the parable in the 'Garment' of
      Jesus Wisdom.
      >
      > I don't know if there is a mathematical schema beyond this, but it
      seems to me that the above is the key to unlocking Thomas as an
      instrument of the Pneumatic. It would be something the ancients and
      not so educated would get, and explains the concept of the Garment,
      and Thomas.
      >
      > Tom Saunders
      >
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      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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