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Re: [GTh] Three Blocks/Sayings and GThomas Cosmology

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  • fmmccoy
    ... From: Michael Grondin To: Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 10:43 AM Subject: Re: [GTh] Three
    Message 1 of 5 , Feb 1, 2005
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      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Michael Grondin" <mwgrondin@...>
      To: <gthomas@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 10:43 AM
      Subject: Re: [GTh] Three Blocks/Sayings and GThomas Cosmology


      >
      > Frank McCoy writes:
      >
      > > Also supporting this hypothesis that the three blocks/sayings constitute
      a
      > > cosmos consisting of earth and two heavens is a very remarkable feature
      to
      > > them. That is, the second one, 12/71, is, in terms of sayings numbers,
      > > equidistant from the first one, i.e., 12/42, and the third one,
      > > 23/110--for
      > > 71-29 = 42 and 71 + 29 = 110!

      > You're on the right track to be thinking in terms of numbers, but 71+29 =
      > 100, not 110. Also, the three blocks in question (which are the smallest
      of
      > the 9 single-saying blocks) don't represent the world.

      Sorry, math done in the head rather than with a calculator.

      The nine single blocks/sayings mentioned by Michael above are:
      1. 4/22, lines 178-193 (16 lines)
      2. 6/42, line 280 (1 line)
      3. 12/71, lines 469-470 (2 lines)
      4. 17/99, lines 592-597 (6 lines)
      5. 18/100, lines 598-602 (5 lines)
      6. 19/101, lines 603-608 (6 lines)
      7. 21/108, lines 635-637 (3 lines)
      8. 22/109, lines 638-645 (8 lines)
      9. 23/110, lines 646-647 (2 lines)
      The number of lines for each block/saying has been calculated by me in my
      head, but they should (hopefully!) be right as I've gone through them twice.

      There are regularities here that suggest that this group of nine is a
      deliberate creation.

      First of all, both the total number of blocks/sayings (which is 9) and the
      total number of lines (which is 49) are square numbers: for 9 = 3x3 and 49 =
      7x7.

      Second, there are is a tendency towards an ABB pattern usage.

      So, there is an ABB pattern to the block numbers. They are divisible into
      three groups:
      1. 4,6,12
      2. 17,18,19
      3. 21,22,23
      Further, these three groups fall into an ABB pattern because the last two
      are alike in that each consists of three consecutive numbers.

      There also is an ABB pattern to the three blocks/sayings with the least
      number of lines:
      6/42 1 line
      12/71 2 lines
      23/110 2 lines
      This ABB pattern is the first having one line, while each of the last two
      has two lines.

      There also is a reversed BBA pattern to three more of the blocks/sayings:
      17/99 6 lines
      19/101 6 lines
      21/108 3 lines
      This BBA pattern is the first two each having 6 lines, while the last one
      has three lines.

      Further, these two sets of three are clearly related. If one divides the
      line numbers in the second set of three by three, then they become a 2-2-1
      pattern--the mirror image of the 1-2-2 pattern of the first set of three.

      What of the remaining set of three blocks/sayings (i.e., 4/22 with 16
      lines, 18/100 with 5 lines, and 22/109 with 8 lines)? Well, it forms an A
      to the BB of the other two--for the other two have in common the trait of
      possessing a 1-2-2 pattern or its reverse.

      In any event, ISTM, there are just too many regularities to this group of 9
      blocks/sayings for it to not be a deliberate creation.

      But, if it is a deliberate creation, then what is its purpose? Suggestions
      are welcomed!

      Frank McCoy
      1809 N. English Apt 15
      Maplewood, MN USA 55109
    • BitsyCat1@aol.com
      ... If I might interject? and ASK. Didnt you( Mike) propose that the disciples were broken down into Groups of Three? If there is a Tendency toward groups of
      Message 2 of 5 , Feb 1, 2005
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        In a message dated 2/1/05 11:42:04 AM, FMMCCOY@... writes:


        > the 9 single-saying blocks) don't represent the world.
        >
        > Sorry, math done in the head rather than with a calculator.
        >
        > The nine single blocks/sayings mentioned by Michael above are:
        > 1. 4/22, lines 178-193 (16 lines)
        > 2. 6/42, line 280 (1 line)
        > 3. 12/71, lines 469-470 (2 lines)
        > 4. 17/99, lines 592-597 (6 lines)
        > 5. 18/100, lines 598-602 (5 lines)
        > 6. 19/101, lines 603-608 (6 lines)
        > 7. 21/108, lines 635-637 (3 lines)
        > 8. 22/109, lines 638-645 (8 lines)
        > 9. 23/110, lines 646-647 (2 lines)
        > The number of lines for each block/saying has been calculated by me in my
        > head, but they should (hopefully!) be right as I've gone through them twice.
        >
        > There are regularities here that suggest that this group of nine is a
        > deliberate creation.
        >

        If I might interject? and ASK.

        Didnt you( Mike) propose that the disciples were broken down into Groups of
        Three?

        If there is a Tendency toward groups of Nine

        Might it be related to the Breakdown of Disciples

        Nine, plus a leader for each of the three groups of three

        This would come up with the Markan Twelve.

        Wouldn't this explain the groupings of 3 and The Number nine?
        Or wouldn't there be a direct relation to the reason for that Three and
        nine, that was previously proposed?


        Regards,
        John Moon
        Springfield,Tenn 37172


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Michael Grondin
        Frank- In this note, you play around a little with the 9 single-saying blocks, which is good. The observation that most drew my attention, though, was ...
        Message 3 of 5 , Feb 1, 2005
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          Frank-

          In this note, you play around a little with the 9 single-saying blocks,
          which is good. The observation that most drew my attention, though, was
          something I overlooked:

          > ... both the total number of blocks/sayings (which is 9) and the total
          > number of lines (which is 49) are square numbers ...

          Thanks for that. I hadn't put 2 and 2 together, so to speak. There's an
          enormous number of neat numerical patterns like that throughout the text.
          But they can only be "seen" if one thinks in terms of numbers, not words.

          > In any event, ISTM, there are just too many regularities to this group of
          > 9
          > blocks/sayings for it to not be a deliberate creation.
          >
          > But, if it is a deliberate creation, then what is its purpose?
          > Suggestions
          > are welcomed!

          Represents nine months of pregnancy preceding the birth of a new creation?
          All I know is that the transition from 9 to 10 (and again from 99 to 100)
          represented a "new beginning" - i.e., the beginning of a "new level" (from
          units to tens to hundreds, in the case of numbers.) Further, although 49 is
          significant, 50 is even more significant - being the number of a "jubilee
          year" - i.e., the year after a sabbath of sabbaths. I think, then, that
          there must be a hidden one-line block to go with - and to complete - these 9
          blocks of 49 lines. Further, I have a suggestion for what that might be -
          line 577. Think about it. Maybe you can come up with something that ties it
          nicely to the other nine blocks - or maybe you can come up with a better
          candidate for a 10th block that would make for 50 lines total.

          Mike Grondin
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