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RE: [GTh] The gospel of Thomas and Christian Wisdom

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  • et
    Thanks, I ordered that book from Amazon. It was even on sale. :) [Michael Mozina] ... From: Andrew Smith [mailto:smithand44@yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, January
    Message 1 of 4 , Jan 7, 2005
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      Thanks, I ordered that book from Amazon. It was even on sale. :)

      [Michael Mozina]

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Andrew Smith [mailto:smithand44@...]
      Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 5:44 PM
      To: gthomas@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [GTh] The gospel of Thomas and Christian Wisdom
    • Mike McLafferty
      Andrew Smith of Bardic Press offered the publisher s blurb for a 2nd edition ... ( 112 in Thomas ). Don t these represent a willful misreading of what seems to
      Message 2 of 4 , Jan 10, 2005
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        Andrew Smith of Bardic Press offered the publisher's blurb for a 2nd edition
        of S. Davies' book:


        | [...]
        | A fascinating additional essay speculates that Thomas
        | may have been used as an oracle text in a similar way
        | to the I Ching.

        ...but T. Saunders wrote:

        | If Davies is correct about the link of Thomas to the
        | I-Ching, and I think he is more than he knows, ...
        ("Response to Karl"); and:

        | If the Gthom has some relationship to the concepts
        | of Oriental thought, like the I-Ching...
        ("112 in Thomas").

        Don't these represent a willful misreading of what seems to be a simple
        reference to the possibility that an individual GTh saying may have been
        randomly chosen, by some users at some times, to shed light on a given
        question or problem? I see no implication that Davies "links" GTh to the
        structure or tradition of the Yi Jing, or that anyone has.

        M. McLafferty



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      • Andrew Smith
        ... edition ... been ... the ... Steve s argument in this essay is that Thomas lack of order and lack of coherence allows him to compare it to oracle texts
        Message 3 of 4 , Jan 10, 2005
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          --- In gthomas@yahoogroups.com, "Mike McLafferty"
          <mikemclafferty@c...> wrote:
          > Andrew Smith of Bardic Press offered the publisher's blurb for a 2nd
          edition
          > of S. Davies' book:
          >
          >
          > | [...]
          > | A fascinating additional essay speculates that Thomas
          > | may have been used as an oracle text in a similar way
          > | to the I Ching.
          >
          > ...but T. Saunders wrote:
          >
          > | If Davies is correct about the link of Thomas to the
          > | I-Ching, and I think he is more than he knows, ...
          > ("Response to Karl"); and:
          >
          > | If the Gthom has some relationship to the concepts
          > | of Oriental thought, like the I-Ching...
          > ("112 in Thomas").
          >
          > Don't these represent a willful misreading of what seems to be a simple
          > reference to the possibility that an individual GTh saying may have
          been
          > randomly chosen, by some users at some times, to shed light on a given
          > question or problem? I see no implication that Davies "links" GTh to
          the
          > structure or tradition of the Yi Jing, or that anyone has.
          >

          Steve's argument in this essay is that Thomas' lack of order and lack
          of coherence allows him to compare it to oracle texts *such as* the I
          Ching. He compares it more specifically to the Homer Oracle, an
          oracular text that was extracted from the Iliad and Odyssey. "Although
          the dating of magical papyri is uncertain, it is likely that PGM VII
          was in circulation in Egypt during a period roughly comparable to the
          period of circulation of the Oxyrhynchus Thomas papyri, i.e. in the
          third century C.E.. If nothing else the Homer Oracle guarantees that
          oracle lists for random divination circulated in Egypt in manuscript
          form and that they contained enigmatic sentences.... To make use of
          the oracle a client would throw three dice, or one die three times,
          each die containing six numbers."

          In the new intro, Steve writes "In addition to this new introduction,
          the Bardic Press edition of The Gospel of Thomas and Christian Wisdom
          contains an essay entitled "Does the Gospel of Thomas Have Meaning?"
          that I wrote for the annual convention of the Society of Biblical
          Literature. In it I suggest that Thomas may have been used as a
          divination text in ancient times. I continue to think that's a
          possibility, but it is a long way from a certainty."

          Although Steve doesn't mention it in this essay, I seem to recall that
          Metzger mentioned that some early Christian MSs showed signs of being
          used for divination. Does anyone recall this?

          Andrew Smith
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