Re: [GTh] Thomas and Mary
- Tom Saunders wrote:
> Almost everyone notes some sort of correlation to Mary and Thomas asIt doesn't seem to me that this is so. In fact, I can't find the word
> to the content and explanation to the texts. One, the texts seem to
> relate the same ideas as to 'the vision' and the light.'
'light' in GMary at all. On the other side, I don't see any discussion of
visions in GThom. Aside from that, the concepts are plainly different. STM
that the equating of GMary's 'vision' with GThom's 'light' is just wishful
thinking on your part.
> In the text of the GMary is a list of the levels of the powers of darknessWhere in GMary are these levels called either 'demons' or 'the powers of
darkness'? The fourth power, which takes seven forms, is called 'the powers
of wrath', not 'the powers of darkness'. As to the word 'demons', I don't
see it anywhere. If that's your word that you're foisting on the text, it's
no wonder that the things *you* call 'demons' - but which GMary does not -
differ from NT demons (as you wrote in an earlier note.)
> These powers of darkness on the 4th level, that Mary describes wouldWhat an odd thing to say, given that the text states that "the fourth power
> in fact have a counterpart of the light so to speak. There may not
> actually be seven subjects or elements to this list ...
took seven forms". Do you have any reason to suppose that the author
> The list in Mary is:Let me stop right here and ask you exactly how you composed this list of
> 1. Darkness
> 2. Desire
> 3. Ignorance
> 4. Excitement of death
> 5. Kingdom of the flesh
> 6. Foolish wisdom of the flesh
> 7. Wrathful Wisdom
> The first three subjects on the list are pretty straight forward and seem
> to have obvious opposites. Darkness-light, desire-satisfaction of desire,
> and ignorance-knowledge. I found the GThom to contain running
> commentaries on the following:
> 1. (Darkness) Vision or the light.....
> Thom Sayings: 5, 11, 15, 17, 22, 24, 26, 28, 33, 34, 37, 50, 59, 61, 77,
> 78, 82, 83, 91, 113
sayings. Before looking at any of the members of the list, I had assumed
that you were picking out sayings with the Coptic word for 'light' in them,
but I see by looking at #5 that this isn't so. So what set of words are you
using to construct this list? And have you actually looked at the Coptic, or
are you going from an English translation? I am very much worried that your
methodology is essentially worthless.
> Because there are no opposites for 4. I stopped trying to correlateWhat model? That GThom might contain concepts opposite to the seven "forms"
> sayings to the subject list and decided to hand over what I have put
> together so far so the group could examine what I have done, recommend
> any changes and possibly put the rest of the GThom in this model.
of GMary's "fourth power"? Of course it might. So what? On the face of it,
there's nothing in GThom about an upward journey of the soul, such as is
found in GMary and other Gnostic writings, so I fail to see the intimate
connection you keep pushing. STM that much more rigor and carefulness is
required if you're going to go on in this vein.