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Re: [GTh] GTh 3/Deut 30:11-14 Parallels

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  • Tom Saunders
    Hi All, Kevin presents an interesting set of parallels to Deuteronomy. But can we call them parallels that are intentional rather than coincidental? I don t
    Message 1 of 10 , Oct 10, 2003
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      Hi All,

      Kevin presents an interesting set of parallels to Deuteronomy. But can we call them parallels that are intentional rather than coincidental? I don't see an intentional pattern that would lead me to believe that the GThom is about reinforcing the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Moses. The author of the GThom probably read Deuteronomy, but the GThom seems to be about another kind of "God," or 'light' as it is used in the GThom.

      What do you think is in the "Old T" that really does reflect any thematic intentions of the GThom?

      Tom Saunders
      Platter Flats, OK




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • sarban
      ... From: Randall Helzerman To: Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 7:15 PM Subject: Re: [GTh] GTh 3/Deut
      Message 2 of 10 , Oct 10, 2003
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        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Randall Helzerman" <rahelzer@...>
        To: <gthomas@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 7:15 PM
        Subject: Re: [GTh] GTh 3/Deut 30:11-14 Parallels


        > Thanks to Andrew Criddle and Frank McCoy for their replies.
        >
        > Andrew writes:
        >
        > > There are several direct quotes from Deuteronomy in the
        > >canonical Gospels, e.g. Jesus' replies to Satan during the
        > >temptation in the wilderness all come from Deuteronomy.
        > >Thomas, on the other hand, tends to avoid direct reference
        > >to Old Testament scripture.
        >
        > Interesting point. However, by "Deuteronomistic Theology"
        > I don't necessarily mean just quotes from the book of
        > Deutoronomy; see below:
        >
        > > How do you define "deutronomistic theology"? I'd like your answer
        before
        > > attempting to address either of the two questions you raise.
        >
        > There is a hypothesis that the books Deuteronomy through II Kings
        > were formed under the influence of a theology which was
        > prominent at the time of Josiah. There's some good web pages
        > about it--just do a google query of "Deuteronomistic Theology".
        >
        > Another similarity between GTh and the Deuteronomistic Historical
        > record (Deut through II Kings) is the complete lack of concern for
        > the Devil.
        >
        As I understand "Deutreronomistic Theology" it contains a strong emphasis
        on "Salvation History", God revealing himself to his people through mighty
        saving acts.
        The tendency in the Gospel of Thomas to see Jesus as a revealer of timeless
        spiritual truths seems to come from a different world of thought.

        Andrew Criddle
      • Randall Helzerman
        Replies to Kevin Johnson, Tom Saunders, and Andrew Criddle: Thanks much to Kevin Johnson for the list of parallels with Deuteronomy! Very interesting. ...
        Message 3 of 10 , Oct 10, 2003
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          Replies to Kevin Johnson, Tom Saunders, and Andrew Criddle:

          Thanks much to Kevin Johnson for the list of
          parallels with Deuteronomy! Very interesting.

          Tom Saunders asks a good question:

          > What do you think is in the "Old T"
          > that really does reflect any thematic
          > intentions of the GThom?

          Well, lets try to list some thematic parallels:

          #1.
          Deuteronomy is a list of sayings given by Moses before he died.
          GTh is a list of sayings given by Jesus before he died.

          #2.
          Moses looks forward to the entry into the promised land.
          Jesus looks forward to the entry into the Kindom of Heaven.

          #3.
          Moses will die before the children of Israel enter the promised land.
          Jesus will die before his followers enter the kindgom of heaven.

          #3.
          Deuteronomy is not concerned with Satan or the Devil at all.
          GTh is not concerned with Satan or the Devil at all.

          #4.
          Deuteronomy lists laws prescribing how to live in the promised land.
          GTh lists laws presecribing how to live in the kindgom of heaven.


          Andrew Criddle writes:

          > The tendency in the Gospel of Thomas to see
          > Jesus as a revealer of timeless spiritual truths
          > seems to come from a different world of thought.

          Agreed, its a different world of thought, but perhaps
          GTh uses adopts some themes from Deuteronomistic Theology?

          Could the GTh be patterened on the book of Deuteronomy?


          Just wondering aloud,
          -Randy Helzerman
        • swallison
          ... Deuteronomy (but not Deuteronomistic Theology ), here are a few ... spoke and which Didymos Judas Thomas wrote down. ... the Transjordan ... finds...
          Message 4 of 10 , Oct 12, 2003
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            --- In gthomas@yahoogroups.com, Achilles37@a... wrote:
            > Hello -
            >
            > Just in terms of parallels between GThomas and the book of
            Deuteronomy (but not "Deuteronomistic Theology"), here are a few
            besides GTh 3 and Deut. 30:11-14:
            >
            > GTh Preamble - These are the secret sayings which the living Jesus
            spoke and which Didymos Judas Thomas wrote down.
            > Deuteronomy 1:1 - "These are the words that Moses spoke to Israel in
            the Transjordan"
            >
            > GTh 2 - Jesus said, "Let him who seeks continue seeking until he
            finds..."
            > Deut 4:29 - "But if from there you seek the LORD your God, you will
            find him..."
            >
            > GTh 22 - "...eyes in the place of an eye, and a hand in place of a
            hand, and a foot in place of a foot..."
            > Deut. 19:21 - "...eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot
            for foot."
            >
            > GTh 23 - Jesus said, "I shall choose you, one out of a thousand, and
            two out of ten thousand..."
            > Deuteronomy 32:20 - "How could one man chase a thousand, or two put
            ten thousand to flight..."
            >
            > GTh 25 - Jesus said, "...guard him like the pupil of your eye."
            > Deut. 32:10 - "...he guarded him as the apple of his eye."
            >
            > Regards,
            >
            > - Kevin Johnson

            I recall a discussion on this forum some time ago where some one was
            making the case that GThom had absolutely no interest in the Old
            Testament and no real references to the OT. The above is too
            extensive to be a coincidence and would seem to contradict that
            hypothesis.

            Thanks

            Steve Allison
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