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Re: [GTh] Kingdom of "God"

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  • Michael Grondin
    Maurice- ... No kingdom is mentioned in Coptic Th8. It reads: (The) Man (or mankind) is comparable to a wise fisherman ... ... Agreed that there s a
    Message 1 of 7 , May 25, 2003
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      Maurice-

      Just to clarify some apparent misunderstandings:

      > ... lacking any specifics about which
      > "Kingdom" Jesus is talking about in Thomas #8, I guess I would simply
      > have classified it as an "Unqualified" variety (as I did for logion
      > #107*) in the absence of a qualifier.

      No "kingdom" is mentioned in Coptic Th8. It reads:

      "(The) Man (or mankind) is comparable to a wise fisherman ..."

      > (*)In passing, my own bias with respect to Thomas #8's use of the
      > "Kingdom" is the same as for logion #107 where it is used in an
      > identical doctrinal sense given that these two logia are necessarily
      > linked by the author's add-on adjective "large" or "largest".

      Agreed that there's a conceptual similarity between 8's "greatest fish" and
      107's "greatest lamb", but 107 reads "The kingdom is like ..." and 8 reads
      that "Man is like ...". That may offend our sense of symmetry, but the
      likelihood of a scribal error in #8 seems remote, given the syntactic
      disimilarity between the terms. In any case, one can't proceed as if #8
      contained the word "kingdom", when in fact it doesn't.

      > In other
      > words in the Matthean building blocks (Matt 18, 12-13 and Matt 13,
      > 47-50) which the scivener of Thomas used to construct Logion 8 and
      > Logion 107, he/she took the liberty to add to Matt.'s description of
      > the fish and the sheep the adjective "largest" .... where in the
      > originals, this adjective is not used.

      This reasoning assumes that "the originals" were passages in GMt, but that
      can't be assumed. Log 107 has a parallel in Luke also, hence in Q. Log 8 has
      a parallel in Greek literature which in fact contrasts small and large fish.
      (see Marvin Meyer, _The Gospel of Thomas_, p.72)

      > I sense, thus that the Thomas
      > version thus has has an important "spin" added to them, thereby giving
      > both of them a special and congruent bias or "twist" ... no ?

      Interesting that elsewhere GTh speaks of the necessity of becoming LITTLE
      ones! And yet Jesus is said the love the great sheep best. Go figure. Seems
      that either the authors didn't care about conceptual consistency, or had no
      sense of it, or something more subtle is going on. (This falls into the
      category of what Bill Arnal drew attention to in his essay - seemingly
      deliberate discordance.)

      > Mark Goodacre, in turn, makes a similarly interesting observation
      > about logion #27, but as I read the "Grondin translation" of this
      > saying in particular, I dont' read it as a "MeNTERO" variety as such...

      Mark was referring to the Greek fragments. The Greek versions of 3 and 27
      may contain "kingdom of God" - 27 more certainly than 3, though both contain
      lacunae at that spot. (The Greek version can be found online by linking to
      Peter Kirby's or Andrew Bernhard's site from my saying-by-saying
      presentation.)

      Regards,
      Mike Grondin
      Mt. Clemens, MI
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