Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: [GTh] #114 Late Addition?

Expand Messages
  • James Lambert
    So let s take a look at the arguments put forth. One thing which must be mentioned before we begin. The primary reason that Logion 114 is a later addition to
    Message 1 of 37 , Sep 21, 2002
      So let's take a look at the arguments put forth.

      One thing which must be mentioned before we begin. The primary reason
      that Logion 114 is a later addition to the original text is simply
      because it is the last saying. If someone wanted to add something to an
      existing document their only option, other than rewriting the entire
      document is to tack on something at the end of the text. If you are
      going to question the validity of a piece of text, the final section of
      the document is always an easy target.

      > 2) The final Logion 114 can be seen to have been added to the text of
      > Thomas at a later date. This is not dependent on whether we agree that
      > Thomas had four chapters, for much of the terminology of this saying is
      > absent in the rest of Thomas:
      >
      > a. The saying begins with a disciple, Simon Peter, addressing
      >
      > the other disciples. This literary device is otherwise never
      >
      > used by Thomas.

      True.

      > b. The idea of one "guided" by Jesus occurs only here.

      True.

      > c. In Thomas D we find the phrase "Kingdom of the Father"
      >
      > appearing in 96, 97, 98, 99, 113. Only in 114 is "Kingdom
      >
      > of Heaven" used.

      There are only three instances of kingdom of heaven in the entire
      document: 20, 54, and 114. Chapters A, B, and D. It may simply another
      theme.

      > d. Only in 114 do we hear anything like the idea that a person
      >
      > should "become a living spirit."

      True.

      > e. Finally, this logion is in direct contradiction to 22. There
      >
      > the male should become female, the female become male
      >
      > and neither should be any longer male or female. Here, in 114
      >
      > the status "male" is positively valued and the status "female"
      >
      > is negatively valued. Indeed, the woman should become male.

      Perhaps the point is being missed.

      > Given Thomas' fluidity of terminology and lack of fully systematic
      > ideology, any one of these discrepancies could be overlooked. There are,
      > however, too many unique and anomalous usages in 114 to allow us to
      > consider it part of the original Gospel of Thomas.

      Maybe 114 is unique, but not because it was added to an already complete
      collection. At this point I shall suggest a new manner by which to
      approach Thomas. Suppose we approach the text from the last saying
      forward. The document itself speaks of the first being last so by
      proceeding in such a manner we could be said to be following the
      directions implicitly contain within the document. Also, the document
      does contain certain reverse order indicators.

      For example, the two parables, "new cloth on an old coat" and "new wine
      in old wineskins", appear in that order, and one right after the other,
      in all three synoptic gospels (Luke 5:36-38, Mark 2:21-22, and Matthew
      9:16-17).
      In GoT #47, these two parables are also contiguous, but in reverse
      order.

      But does such an approach address any of the arguments already put
      forth?

      > a. The saying begins with a disciple, Simon Peter, addressing
      >
      > the other disciples. This literary device is otherwise never
      >
      > used by Thomas.

      Here we have Simon Peter attempting to impose his will on the group.
      Jesus then soundly puts him in his place. After this event Peter is not
      in a position to question Mary's presence. His wings have been
      effectively clipped. And so Peter is no longer depicted in the document
      as asserting his authority before the other disciples.

      > b. The idea of one "guided" by Jesus occurs only here.

      Yes, this is to signify that here is the entrance to the labyrinth. We
      must follow the clues he sets before us very carefully.

      > c. In Thomas D we find the phrase "Kingdom of the Father"
      >
      > appearing in 96, 97, 98, 99, 113. Only in 114 is "Kingdom
      >
      > of Heaven" used.

      Interesting. As there are only two other instances of "Kingdom of
      Heaven" being used in the document, at numbers 20 and 54, perhaps
      "Kingdom of Heaven" has some special significance to set it apart from
      "Kingdom of the Father," and Mary, as the guided, is being specifically
      directed towards these sayings.

      > d. Only in 114 do we hear anything like the idea that a person
      >
      > should "become a living spirit."

      Well, actually it says that Jesus will guide Mary to became a living
      spirit resembling those males. It is not clear that she is not already a
      living spirit, but the point seems to be her lack of manhood. By this
      reading we are all living spirits.

      > e. Finally, this logion is in direct contradiction to 22. There
      >
      > the male should become female, the female become male
      >
      > and neither should be any longer male or female. Here, in 114
      >
      > the status "male" is positively valued and the status "female"
      >
      > is negatively valued. Indeed, the woman should become male.

      Notice how 114 leads us directly to 22. #21 is the next saying after #22
      if we continue following a reverse order throughout the document. With
      that in mind, let's look at #21.

      21) Mary said to Jesus, "Whom are Your disciples like?"
      He said, "They are like children ...

      Mary is directly engaging Jesus. This is the only saying which opens
      with Jesus being addressed by a named individual. Except perhaps for
      #114 which opens with Peter addressing either Jesus or the group as a
      whole.

      So we have come full circle. Not only does #114 function as an integral
      piece of the collection, it also serves as the portal through which the
      document as a whole must be approached.


      --
      James Lambert
      http://web.telecom.cz/Gnostradamus
    • Andrew Smith
      ... ====================================================================== == ... would be ... I would characterise the order of Thomas as associative.
      Message 37 of 37 , Oct 2, 2002
        --- In gthomas@y..., "Rick Hubbard" <rhubbard@m...> wrote:
        > Frank Wrote:
        >
        ======================================================================
        ==
        > A discussion of catchwords and how they might link passages in GTh
        would be
        > useful.
        > etc.

        I would characterise the order of Thomas as associative. Catchwords
        are one kind of association between sayings. In other places
        the "sayings" are associated by form (a small cluster of parables),
        or very generally by theme, as in the opening group of sayings.

        Best Wishes

        Andrew Smith
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.