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[gthomas] Hymn of the Pearl

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  • Chris Cutler
    ... not be Gnostic. I ve just read Hymn of the Pearl from the Apocryphal Acts of Thomas. That seemed to conform to most of my criteria for gnostic writing.
    Message 1 of 6 , Jan 20, 1999
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      In reply to Tord Svenson (Re: Help with Death) Jack wrote:

      >I don't believe Thomas is a Gnostic work, therefore the concept base will
      not be Gnostic.

      I've just read "Hymn of the Pearl" from the Apocryphal Acts of Thomas. That
      seemed to conform to most of my criteria for gnostic writing. If GThom is
      not gnostic and AThom is, are we talking about the same guy, and if so
      where do you think the historical Thomas stood on this one?

      Chris


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    • Peter Novak
      ... Is my memory correct that Hymn of the Pearl almost made it into the canon, but was edited out only at the last moment? It seems too gnostic for that.
      Message 2 of 6 , Jan 21, 1999
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        Chris Cutler wrote:
        >
        > In reply to Tord Svenson (Re: Help with Death) Jack wrote:
        >
        > >I don't believe Thomas is a Gnostic work, therefore the concept base will
        > not be Gnostic.
        >
        > I've just read "Hymn of the Pearl" from the Apocryphal Acts of Thomas. That
        > seemed to conform to most of my criteria for gnostic writing. If GThom is
        > not gnostic and AThom is, are we talking about the same guy, and if so
        > where do you think the historical Thomas stood on this one?


        Is my memory correct that "Hymn of the Pearl" almost made it into the
        canon, but was edited out only at the last moment?

        It seems too gnostic for that. Maybe I'm thinking of something else.

        - Peter Novak

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      • Jack Kilmon
        ... Maybe we should have a Quest for the Historical Thomas and a Thomas Seminar. (g) The historical Yehudah Toma may never have written anything at all but
        Message 3 of 6 , Jan 21, 1999
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          Chris Cutler wrote:
          >
          > In reply to Tord Svenson (Re: Help with Death) Jack wrote:
          >
          > >I don't believe Thomas is a Gnostic work, therefore the concept base will
          > not be Gnostic.
          >
          > I've just read "Hymn of the Pearl" from the Apocryphal Acts of Thomas. That
          > seemed to conform to most of my criteria for gnostic writing. If GThom is
          > not gnostic and AThom is, are we talking about the same guy, and if so
          > where do you think the historical Thomas stood on this one?

          Maybe we should have a Quest for the Historical Thomas and a "Thomas
          Seminar." (g)

          The historical Yehudah "Toma" may never have written anything at all
          but simply had his name associated with an early anthology of Jesus'
          sayings. He could have been Jesus' younger brother (as long as we
          are speculating), called "toma" simply because he resembled his
          older bro.

          Is the Abgar tradition history? Did the disciple known as Thomas
          go to Edessa and found a community there? Might be interesting
          to explore.

          Jack
          --
          ______________________________________________

          taybutheh d'maran yeshua masheecha am kulkon

          Jack Kilmon
          jkilmon@...

          http://www.historian.net

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        • Chris Cutler
          [snip] Jack writes: The historical Yehudah Toma may never have written anything at all but simply had his name associated with an early anthology of Jesus
          Message 4 of 6 , Jan 21, 1999
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            [snip]
            Jack writes:
            The historical Yehudah "Toma" may never have written anything at all
            but simply had his name associated with an early anthology of Jesus'
            sayings. He could have been Jesus' younger brother (as long as we
            are speculating), called "toma" simply because he resembled his
            older bro.

            Is the Abgar tradition history? Did the disciple known as Thomas
            go to Edessa and found a community there? Might be interesting
            to explore.

            Chris replies:
            How closely did he resemble his older brother, and just how much older was
            he? I thought Didymus meant "twin". Sort of puts a new twist on all those
            crucifixion survivalist theories going on over on the crosstalk list (g)

            Chris
            --------------------------
            Chris & Ariane Cutler

            What liberates is the knowledge of who we were, what we became; where we
            were, whereinto we have been thrown; whereto we speed, wherefrom we are
            redeemmed; what birth is, and what rebirth." (Exc. Theod. 78.2)



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          • Stevan Davies
            ... We are not talking about the same guy. We are talking about the same word thomas. There are traces of GTh sayings in AThom but not many... few enough to
            Message 5 of 6 , Jan 21, 1999
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              > I've just read "Hymn of the Pearl" from the Apocryphal Acts of Thomas. That
              > seemed to conform to most of my criteria for gnostic writing. If GThom is
              > not gnostic and AThom is, are we talking about the same guy, and if so
              > where do you think the historical Thomas stood on this one?
              >
              > Chris

              We are not talking about the same guy. We are talking about the
              same word "thomas." There are traces of GTh sayings in AThom
              but not many... few enough to lead one to prefer common tradition
              (and not much of that) to any hypothesis that the author of AThom
              used the text Gospel of Thomas. If the AThom had been called
              the Acts of Nicodemus nobody would be speculating about some
              connection to GTh. They are just two different texts from two
              different times talking about two different things with a common
              use of the same name (ONLY TWICE) in GTh. So I'd say it's a
              non-issue and no conclusions follow from the fact that the same
              name shows up. If one should want to argue that the hymn of the
              pearl has something to do with GTh or sayings therein, that case
              must be argued from grounds other than "the same name".

              Steve

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            • Chris Cutler
              From: Stevan Davies ... That ... We are not talking about the same guy. We are talking about the same word thomas. There are traces of GTh
              Message 6 of 6 , Jan 22, 1999
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                From: Stevan Davies <miser17@...>
                in reply to:

                > I've just read "Hymn of the Pearl" from the Apocryphal Acts of Thomas.
                That
                > seemed to conform to most of my criteria for gnostic writing. If GThom is
                > not gnostic and AThom is, are we talking about the same guy, and if so
                > where do you think the historical Thomas stood on this one?
                >
                > Chris

                We are not talking about the same guy. We are talking about the
                same word "thomas." There are traces of GTh sayings in AThom
                but not many... few enough to lead one to prefer common tradition
                (and not much of that) to any hypothesis that the author of AThom
                used the text Gospel of Thomas. If the AThom had been called
                the Acts of Nicodemus nobody would be speculating about some
                connection to GTh. They are just two different texts from two
                different times talking about two different things with a common
                use of the same name (ONLY TWICE) in GTh. So I'd say it's a
                non-issue and no conclusions follow from the fact that the same
                name shows up. If one should want to argue that the hymn of the
                pearl has something to do with GTh or sayings therein, that case
                must be argued from grounds other than "the same name".

                Steve

                Chris replies:

                Thank-you, your reply makes good sense to me. If I come up with other
                grounds for linking ATh with GTh I'll post them, but this point I'll
                concede.

                Chris
                --------------------------
                Chris & Ariane Cutler

                What liberates is the knowledge of who we were, what we became; where we
                were, whereinto we have been thrown; whereto we speed, wherefrom we are
                redeemmed; what birth is, and what rebirth." (Exc. Theod. 78.2)



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