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Re: [GTh] Re: Gospels as Historical Novels

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  • Jim Bauer
    ... From: FMMCCOY To: Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 7:13 PM Subject: [GTh] Re: Gospels as Historical Novels
    Message 1 of 3 , May 2, 2001
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      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "FMMCCOY" <FMMCCOY@...>
      To: <gthomas@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 7:13 PM
      Subject: [GTh] Re: Gospels as Historical Novels


      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: "Michael Grondin" <mgrondin@...>
      > To: <gthomas@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2001 2:52 PM
      > Subject: Re: [GTh] Re: SOM in GOT 86
      >
      > Dear Michael:
      >
      > Mark does not call his document a novel, nor does it fall into any
      known
      > literary type of historical novel current in the first century CE. If
      Mark
      > is a novel, then why doesn't Luke, in Luke 1:1-4, tell Theophilus that his
      > main source for Luke was a novel? I see, then, no reason to think that
      > Mark's gospel is a novel. What reason(s) do you have for thinking it is?

      Literary critic John Cawelti, with whom I had the good fortune to study with
      when he was at the University of Chicago, is a popular arts scholar and uses
      formula as the basis of his critiques of popular culture. He is very well
      known for _The Six-gun Mystique_ which is about the western.

      He maintains in _Adventure, Mystery, and Romance_ that in the development of
      popular artforms there are "formula" works and "anti-formulaic" works whose
      success is predicated by an evolutionary hypothesis: formula works survive
      precisely because there is a formula--it allows the fan to relate to
      pre-existent plot devices and characters who fall into the mold of prior
      works. STAR WARS never would have become the biggest movie hit of time
      without a whole plethora of these: rocketships, robots, aliens, galactic
      empires &c. However, anti-formulaic works tend to be selected against but
      on those rare occassions where they are selected for they go on to become
      origins of a new genre.

      With this in mind we may view the three Synoptics as "historical fiction"
      anyway, they were simply a nascent formula which did not develop into later
      successors.

      > Having said this, I do think that there is a gospel that is a
      historical
      > novel and this is John

      I agree wholeheartedly here. Not only is it historical fiction but a
      full-blown Gnostic gospel which somehow made its way into the Christian
      canon.

      Jim Bauer>
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
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    • Jon Zuck
      This sounds interesting. Where can I find a copy of Joseph and Asenath? Is it available online anywhere? ... Shalom v Tovah, Jon Zuck Web URL:
      Message 2 of 3 , May 3, 2001
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        This sounds interesting. Where can I find a copy of Joseph and Asenath? Is
        it available online anywhere?

        > We possess a Jewish work, Joseph and Asenath (to be short-handed as JA)
        > that definitely is a historical novel written in Greek. Indeed, in The
        > History of Ancient Israel (p. 262), Michael Grant states, "It may be the
        > oldest Greek novel in existence. Its author, however, was a Jew, although
        > he presents Judaism as a mystery religion on a par with the many other
        > Hellenistic faiths of that kind, involving elaborate initiations, which
        > pervaded the Hellenistic world."

        ---
        Shalom v'Tovah,
        Jon Zuck
        Web URL: http://surf.to/frimmin

        It is more important to love much than to think much.
        Always do that which most impels you to love.
        --St. Teresa of Avila
      • FMMCCOY
        ... From: Jon Zuck To: Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 8:03 PM Subject: Re: [GTh] Re: Gospels as Historical Novels
        Message 3 of 3 , May 3, 2001
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          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Jon Zuck" <frimmin@...>
          To: <gthomas@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 8:03 PM
          Subject: Re: [GTh] Re: Gospels as Historical Novels


          > This sounds interesting. Where can I find a copy of Joseph and Asenath?
          Is
          > it available online anywhere?
          >

          Dear Jon Zuck:

          There is a web-site for Joseph and Asenath that is maintained by Dr. Mark
          Goodacre of the University of Birmingham. It includes a translation of this
          text. If I copied it correctly (a big if), the web-site address is
          http://www.bham.ac.uk/theology/goodacre. On it is also listed this (again,
          hopefully copied correctly) M.S.Goodacre@... This is possibly Dr.
          Goodacre's e-mail address. I hope this helps.

          Regards,

          Frank McCoy
          Maplewood, MN USA
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