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Re: [GTh] Re: SOM in GOT 86

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  • Jon Zuck
    ... gospel, ... To me, Crossan s statement exemplifies the chief limitations of Jesus seminar scholarship. Primary among those are 1. failure to think in the
    Message 1 of 49 , May 2 5:55 AM
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      Michael quoted Crossan:

      > "As Christian Jewish communities are steadily more alienated from their
      > fellow Jews, so the "enemies" of Jesus expand to fit those new situations.
      > By the time of John in the 90's, those enemies are "the Jews" - that is,
      > all those other Jews except us few right ones. If we had understood
      gospel,
      > we would have understood that. If we had understood gospel, we would have
      > *expected* that. It is, unfortunately, tragically late to be learning it."

      To me, Crossan's statement exemplifies the chief limitations of Jesus
      seminar scholarship. Primary among those are

      1. failure to think in the languages of the time, and
      2. failure to think in the culture of the time.

      In Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek, there is no distinction between the words for
      Judeans (inhabitant of the province/tribe Judea/Judah) and Jews (circumcised
      children of Abraham worshiping Yahweh.)

      Yes, Christianity was getting far more "Gentilized" by the 90's, but it
      still takes a lot of faith in our "understanding" of the first century to
      suppose that the "Jews" meant all other Jewish people but us, as opposed to
      the "the Judeans, who unbelievably, welcomed our fellow Galilean, Yeshua,
      into Jerusalem wildly and a few days later, had him crucified."

      I believe the gospels in general reflect a Galilean Jewish perspective that
      was shocked at Judean rejection of the Messiah. (I do however acknowledge
      that Luke does address his gospel to non-Jews. Why not? it's strongly
      implied in his own introduction)

      Sometimes I really wonder what the firsthand Semitic language/cultural
      experience of the Seminar is, or if they just use English translations, and
      build on other liberal scholarship, built on other liberal scholarship,
      built on...ad infinitum.
      ---
      Shalom v'Tovah,
      Jon Zuck
      Web URL: http://surf.to/frimmin

      It is more important to love much than to think much.
      Always do that which most impels you to love.
      --St. Teresa of Avila



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    • odell mcguire
      George, ... ... And I wrote in re a portion of your letter which ended with the above that I found little to agree with in it. I read in too much of a
      Message 49 of 49 , May 4 1:17 AM
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        George,

        You wrote in re GThom86:

        >This interpretation has three things going for it, in my view. First,
        >it reveals GTh 86 to be pithy and powerful, two characteristics
        >generally attributed to Jesus' aphorisms. . .
        <SNIP>
        >Second, it echoes a common theme in Thomas, that of conflicting
        >internal natures, the pre-Fall identity vs. the post-Fall identity.
        >Third, if indeed Jesus was a mystic/teacher, you would expect that he
        >would teach what for mystics everywhere is almost a truism: To find
        >peace or "rest" you must identify with what is most divine in yourself
        >and disconnect from everything that is not. So I see the Jesus of
        >Thomas as more interested in this kind of "rest" than in the comfort
        >of having a home or shelter.
        >Thanks,
        >George Duffy

        And I wrote in re a portion of your letter which ended with the above that I
        found 'little to agree with' in it. I read in too much of a damn hurry for which
        I apologize. I am in reasonably close agreement with all three of these
        propositions and they are certainly worth noting. But in disagreement with the
        snipped portion I fail to see how the excellent points you have made apply to
        your interpretation of SOM as 'mankind' and not mine of SOM as a self reference
        of Jesus as human being, his aphoristic self, to Jesus as prophet, who spreads
        the word of the HS. Think about it. Its something of a gestalt.

        --
        Best wishes, Odell

        Odell McGuire
        omcguire@...
        Prof. Geology Em., W&L
        Lexington, VA
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