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  • Jim Bauer
    Blessed is he who came into being before he came into being. Somewhere I thought I once saw this translated as Blessed is he who is before he came into
    Message 1 of 3 , Apr 23, 2000
      "Blessed is he who came into being before he came into being." Somewhere I thought I once saw this translated as "Blessed is he who is before he came into being, for he who is both was and shall be." That particular quote, however, may have been a mistranslation or from somewhere else in NHLe. This is one of the more koan like sayings of Jesus but to me seems enigmatic, though I suppose koans are always that way. The sentence also has no obvious connection with the rest of the saying, dealing as it does with the "five trees," a topic which was analyzed here quite awhile ago. This is, however, not before promising his disciples that they will "not experience death" if they listen to him, a statement which is repeated after the "five trees" sayings. And of course, the two statements about "not experiencing death" refer back to the first Logoin.

      Why does Jesus say this? Is he perhaps referring to "pre-existence of the soul"? Or is it, as I postulated above, some kind of Greco-Hebrew koan? Naturally, "koans" themselves would be alien to his culture but the form is archetypal and hence can appear in diverse forms of mysticism with no obvious connections between the different societies.

      I would appreciate input on this from the list members.

      Jim Bauer


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Nanna Liv Elkj√¶r Olsen
      ... There is an alternative to the above mentioned translation which goes: Blessed is he who was in the beginning (and) not yet has come into being. Relating
      Message 2 of 3 , Apr 24, 2000
        At 17:22 23-04-00 -0600, you wrote:
        >"Blessed is he who came into being before he came into being."

        There is an alternative to the above mentioned translation which goes:
        "Blessed is he who was in the beginning (and) not yet has come into being."

        Relating GOT to mysticism sounds quite interesting to me.

        Nanna
      • Kanefer@aol.com
        Jim wrote: Blessed is he who came into being before he came into being. Why does Jesus say this? Is he perhaps referring to pre-existence of the soul ?
        Message 3 of 3 , Apr 24, 2000
          Jim wrote:
          "Blessed is he who came into being before he came into being." >>>>Why does
          Jesus say this? Is he perhaps referring to "pre-existence of the soul"? Or
          is it, as I postulated above, some kind of Greco-Hebrew koan?>>>>

          Nanna wrote: >>>>There is an alternative to the above mentioned translation
          which goes: "Blessed is he who was in the beginning (and) not yet has come
          into being."

          Andrew pointed something out to me that perhaps helps - how the tree is
          inside the seed, (and how the rise is inside the tiny yeast), requiring the
          earth (or the dough) for realization.
          So, before the tree comes into being, it has come into being. Maybe this
          concept could connect in some way with the "five trees."
          It is definitely an eternity concept, as we look back from tree to seed
          to tree to seed...and see that the potential for that tree "always was,"
          (this heading toward "Which came first, the tree or the seed?")
          It might also help to think how God existed before anything existed.
          Then, one must think that "creation" and "beginning" pertain only to temporal
          existence.

          Sincerely, Patti
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