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[gthomas] Re AGAINST THE WORLD

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  • joseph baxter
    ... To follow up on what Stephron is saying, to be a passerby means staying on path. So it is not that the world is rejected. Rather, it is not where its at.
    Message 1 of 8 , Dec 31, 1999
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      > >At 09:28 AM 12/29/99 +0100, Strephon Williams wrote:
      > >There is nothing in the quoted passages about standing against the world.
      >
      >Possibly so, but the entire thrust of GTh is a rejection of the world.
      >Crossan calls it "ascetic eschatology". Valantasis wrote an entire book
      >about Xian ascetism in GTh. There can be little doubt that GTh recommends
      >that one "stand against the world".
      >Mike>
      >
      >if we define ascetisim as rejection of the world in order to practice
      >spiritual values then this does not fit Thomas because there are too many
      >passages where the method is not rejection but disidentification in order
      >to consciously move in and through the world. To "become passersby, surely
      >has to mean that you have to have something worth going by and onward.





      To follow up on what Stephron is saying, to be a "passerby" means staying
      on path. So it is not that the world is rejected. Rather, it is not where
      its at.

      Still, GT teaches fasting from the world. So there is a level of
      asceticism. But asceticism need not mean rejection of the world, so much as
      it means creating spiritual heat from one's practices.

      With kind regards,

      Joe

      joe
    • Tord Svenson
      ... The word world is commonly used in the GOT. What is the GOT Jesus conception of this word world ? ... 56) Jesus said, Whoever has come to understand
      Message 2 of 8 , Jan 2, 2000
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        At 11:47 PM 12/31/99 -0800, joseph baxter wrote:
        ----snip --------
        >
        >Still, GT teaches fasting from the world. So there is a level of
        >asceticism. But asceticism need not mean rejection of the world, so much as
        >it means creating spiritual heat from one's practices
        >
        ---------- Reply ------------
        The word "world" is commonly used in the GOT. What is the GOT Jesus'
        conception of this word "world"?
        ---------------------
        56) Jesus said, "Whoever has come to understand the world has found (only)
        a corpse, and whoever has found a corpse is superior to the world."
        ------------------------
        80) Jesus said, "He who has recognized the world has found the body, but
        he who has found the body is superior to the world."
        ----------------------
        -----------------------
        29) Jesus said, "If the flesh came into being because of spirit, it is a
        wonder. But if spirit came into being because of the body, it is a wonder
        of wonders. Indeed, I am amazed at how this great wealth has made its home
        in this poverty."
        ---------------------
        Apart from the "body/world" there is "spirit". That spirit is the reason
        why the "world" came into being. What created the spirit?
        -----------------------
        50) Jesus said, "If they say to you, 'Where did you come from?', say to
        them, 'We came from the light, the place where the light came into being on
        its own accord and established [itself] and became manifest through their
        image.'
        -----------------------------
        This world/body and spirit/light dualism sets up a paradox that this GOT
        Jesus identifies with ----
        ------------
        77) Jesus said, "It is I who am the light which is above them all. It is I
        who am the All. From Me did the All come forth, and unto Me did the All
        extend. Split a piece of wood, and I am there. Lift up the stone, and you
        will find Me there."
        -----------------------
        In the wood and stone of the world/body there is spirit/light --the
        world/body is One/Many.only we do not "see" this
        ----------------------
        He said to them, "You read the face of the sky and of the earth, but you
        have not recognized the one who is before you, and you do not know how to
        read this moment."
        ---------------------
        As a seven day old infant we are in the One but we live in the world/body
        and become dual
        ----------------------
        When you come to dwell in the light, what will you do? On the day when you
        were one you became two. But when you become two, what will you do?"
        ----------------------
        Much of the GOT is an answer to "what will you do?" Lose the dualism and
        live without the One/Many. :-) Live.

        Joe --when you say -- "creating spiritual heat from one's practices" --do
        you relate that concept to the stage of "become troubled" as in
        -------------------
        2) Jesus said, "Let him who seeks continue seeking until he finds. When
        he finds, he will become troubled. When he becomes troubled, he will be
        astonished, and he will rule over the All."
        -----------------------
        ???
        Does the GOT "create spiritual heat" for you? Why ?
        Tord






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