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[gthomas] Is Jesus on the road here?

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  • joseph baxter
    ... Is Jesus on the road in the Gospel of Thomas? If so, where are the crowds? If they are made in retreat to a wilderness environment, does that explain
    Message 1 of 8 , Oct 31, 1999
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      At 10:24 AM 10/30/99 , Tord wrote:

      >If one looks at the GOT as a whole and subjects it to the criteria proposed
      >by John Meier you have to be impressed that this list of sayings meets some
      >of those requirements. The GOT actually looks like the notes that someone
      >would have made when on the road with Jesus

      Is Jesus on the road in the Gospel of Thomas? If so, where are the
      crowds? If they are made in retreat to a wilderness environment, does that
      explain some of the difference in content? The inner teachings.

      Why are the sayings such a mix? A collection of distinctive sayings and a
      truncated collection of sayings associated with the content of the other
      Gospels, and sayings created along the way. Could be that the original
      sayings were short.


      Why the oft too puzzling wording? Perhaps some of those scribes were baking
      in the sun for too long.


      >Joe Baxter

      joe
    • Tord Svenson
      ... Joe --- thanks for the reply ----- Take a look at http://www.utm.edu/research/iep/text/presoc/presoc.htm Heraclitus and Parmenides These are lists of their
      Message 2 of 8 , Nov 1, 1999
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        At 11:20 PM 10/31/99 -0800, joseph baxter wrote:
        >At 10:24 AM 10/30/99 , Tord wrote:
        >
        >>If one looks at the GOT as a whole and subjects it to the criteria proposed
        >>by John Meier you have to be impressed that this list of sayings meets some
        >>of those requirements. The GOT actually looks like the notes that someone
        >>would have made when on the road with Jesus

        --------- Joe replied -----------
        >Is Jesus on the road in the Gospel of Thomas? If so, where are the
        >crowds? If they are made in retreat to a wilderness environment, does that
        >explain some of the difference in content? The inner teachings.
        >
        >Why are the sayings such a mix? A collection of distinctive sayings and a
        >truncated collection of sayings associated with the content of the other
        >Gospels, and sayings created along the way. Could be that the original
        >sayings were short.
        >
        >
        >Why the oft too puzzling wording? Perhaps some of those scribes were baking
        >in the sun for too long.
        >
        >
        >>Joe Baxter
        ------------ Reply ----------------
        Joe --- thanks for the reply ----- Take a look at
        http://www.utm.edu/research/iep/text/presoc/presoc.htm
        Heraclitus and Parmenides
        These are lists of their sayings derived from ancient Greek texts. There
        are similarities to the GOT.

        Of course, philosophers and scholars have been at odds about what
        Heraclitus and Parmenides meant in these sayings and there have been some
        fascinating fights over these words --just as we find concerning the words
        of the GOT. One of the best of these fights was between Karl Popper and
        Kirk --- wherein Popper gave some ideas about what he felt mattered most in
        such translations.

        Our culture derives from Greek thought much more than it does from
        Christianity. However, the crowds are drawn to promises of immortality, a
        heaven in the sky and a chicken in every pot.

        You asked, "Why the oft too puzzling wording? " Here is a quote from
        Plato's Seventh Letter about this ---
        ----------- Plato said --------------
        *There neither is nor will there ever be a treatise of mine on the subject.
        For it does not admit of exposition like other branches of knowledge; but
        after much converse about the matter itself and a life lived together,
        suddenly a light, as it were, is kindled in one soul by a flame that leaps
        to it from another and thereafter sustains itself.*
        --------------- snip -----------------------
        *But I do not think it a good thing for men that there should be a
        disquisition, as it is called, on this topic -- except for some few, who
        are able with a little teaching to find it out for themselves. As for the
        rest, it would fill some of them quite illogically with a mistaken feeling
        of contempt, and others with lofty and vainglorious expectations, as
        though they had learned something high and mighty.*
        --------------------------
        IMO -- Jesus ( and Plato) were about creating a state of consciousness
        --not words. The people who listened to them directly and had the
        opportunity to question them directly were portrayed as confused and unable
        to understand their statements.
        ---------------------------
        92) Jesus said, "Seek and you will find. Yet, what you asked Me about in
        former times and which I did not tell you then, now I do desire to tell,
        but you do not enquire after it."
        ---------------------------
        23) Jesus said, "I shall choose you, one out of a thousand, and two out of
        ten thousand, and they shall stand as a single one."
        ------------------------------
        How many in direct contact with these men attained the state of
        consciousness that these men tried to create in their followers? How many
        in our time can attain that state of consciousness by reading Plato or the
        GOT? :-) These words are simply a finger pointing the way.
        ----------------------------
        "The gods did not reveal, from the beginning,
        All things to us; but in the course of time,
        Through seeking, men find that which is the better...
        These things are, we conjecture, like the truth."
        Xenophanes (570-475 BCE)
        ------------------------
        Tord

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