Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

[gthomas] Re: The Big Fish (a sign?)

Expand Messages
  • Jim Bauer
    ... As far as this goes, what about the logion Blessed is the lion which the man eats, and the lion shall become man; and cursed is the man which the lion
    Message 1 of 4 , May 4, 1999
    • 0 Attachment
      On Tue, 4 May 1999, Beta David wrote:

      > Re: The Big Fish
      >
      > I have one more question - maybe `someone` can help me with it: In *your*
      > opinion does the `fish`

      As far as this goes, what about the logion "Blessed is the lion which the
      man eats, and the lion shall become man; and cursed is the man which the
      lion eats, and the lion will become man?" Is he talking about the Lion of
      Judah or the lion-serpent Yaltaboaoth? And could "eating" have something
      to do with communion, perhaps an interpolation by an early Christian or
      Christian Gnostic group?

      > carry a prophetic message? I mentioned `parable of the weeds` in association
      > with it a while back
      > but I'm thinking more, how shall I say, heretical... Yes. I think that says
      > it.
      >
      > Beta David
      >
      >
      > ______________________________________________________
      >
      > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
      > eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/group/gthomas
      > http://www.eGroups.com - Simplifying group communications
      >
      >


      ------------------------------------------------------------------------
      eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/group/gthomas
      http://www.eGroups.com - Simplifying group communications
    • Beta David
      Re: The Big Fish (a sign?) Jim Bauer Dear Jim, The example you sited Re: prophecy ... --is (prophetically speaking) relevant, I think. I m curious if you think
      Message 2 of 4 , May 6, 1999
      • 0 Attachment
        Re: The Big Fish (a sign?)
        Jim Bauer

        Dear Jim,

        The example you sited Re: prophecy

        >the logion "Blessed is the lion (...)
        >and cursed is the man (...)

        --is (prophetically speaking) relevant, I think. I'm curious if you think
        this text speaks to the dating
        question in any way - I think this (more later).

        Point:

        Gnostics were `not` noted, particularly, for ascribing to prophecy of the
        doomsdayish sort (and this
        is where I think your commentary is very correct), but that said, I'll
        follow up with an oddball point:

        A time ago I happened upon some Coptic fishing charms (or enchantments) and
        was struck by the
        prophecy in them.

        Generally they go something like: "Here fishy fishy come into my net [subtle
        evocation of egyptian
        gods within christian archetypes]. Then the cardinal points are summoned;
        with some procedural
        stuff tacked on at the end.

        These charms were obviously not theological; actually quite common, yet the
        images; especially
        concerning appeals within specific geography, (i.e. fish, here, now) caused
        me to think of the end
        result of Thomas' saying. Especially as, in Thomas, we see the `wise`
        fisherman having a selection to
        choose from.

        Of course there's a deeper significance, as you point out, but *on the
        surface* I'm struck by the
        purpose of prophesy in general (bringing something or causing something);
        yet in this Gnostic
        framework, where, like I said in my note, the sower is so utterly prominent,
        prior.

        A canonical reading of Matthew does reveal a good deal of prophecy following
        the sower and I
        can't help wondering about the `stilling of the storm` in other books
        either.

        There's a regular poster to this list who is up on relevant politics which I
        think are pertinent to the
        prophecy question. Perhaps he'll chime in - I'll consider sacrament.

        Cheers, Beta David
        betadavid (at) hotmail
        http://bigfoot.com/~betadavid

        PS: (again) I'm unaware if the Q-folks have an *exact target year in mind*
        for their document. I
        have been unable to find any info about this. If ANYONE has pertinent info.
        I'd appreciate them
        letting me know.


        ______________________________________________________

        ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/group/gthomas
        http://www.eGroups.com - Simplifying group communications
      • Beta David
        Re: The Big Fish (a sign?) Jim Bauer (a follow up to this morning s post) Dear Jim, ... My view on the sacrament are... well they aren t very religious. I tend
        Message 3 of 4 , May 6, 1999
        • 0 Attachment
          Re: The Big Fish (a sign?)
          Jim Bauer (a follow up to this morning's post)

          Dear Jim,

          >And could "eating" have something to do with communion

          My view on the sacrament are... well they aren't very religious. I tend to
          look at the question in
          historical terms; which causes me to see oft portrayed events somewhat
          differently than are
          promoted to us. I think without a context or a date of some sort the
          "eating" business doesn't say *as
          much* as it might; presupposing we could ascertain a date and say, "Well,
          obviously under these
          criteria we have a general meaning..."

          I don't mean to detract from the mysticism - however anyone perceives this
          or not - but I believe the
          sacrament could mean something in 100 Assyria but something else again in
          Egypt.

          I think there's a definitive answer; in this case especially. I mean,
          really, the sacrament is something
          that deserves specificity of the highest order. Don't think I take it
          lightly. "Interpolation" (or not)
          depends on time, really, but I lean this way to a degree, for sure.

          This fish business is a prime example; owing its proximity to the sower
          (which in Thomas continually
          `amazes` me). For example: Something not mentioned, Re `fish` --that is,
          `the (potential) boat`
          which I estimate is a possibility if we're talking fishing or sowing or
          prophecy for that matter. `Needs
          to be contemplated.

          There's a cultural underpinning to all this is what I'm saying and if we're
          awash in a 100-year wake
          then... 'Tell you what - you put a year on that assertion and I'll take a
          guess. If I put a year on it,
          well...

          Have a good weekend Jim.

          Beta David
          betadavid (at) hotmail.com
          http://bigfoot.com/~betadavid

          PS. But do - and I'll give it a whirl.

          STORY VALUE: Young unmarried women (maidens), traditionally, `were` virgins.


          ______________________________________________________

          ------------------------------------------------------------------------
          eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/group/gthomas
          http://www.eGroups.com - Simplifying group communications
        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.