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[gthomas] Re: The Big Fish (a sign?)

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  • Beta David
    Re: The Big Fish I have one more question - maybe `someone` can help me with it: In *your* opinion does the `fish` carry a prophetic message? I mentioned
    Message 1 of 4 , May 4, 1999
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      Re: The Big Fish

      I have one more question - maybe `someone` can help me with it: In *your*
      opinion does the `fish`
      carry a prophetic message? I mentioned `parable of the weeds` in association
      with it a while back
      but I'm thinking more, how shall I say, heretical... Yes. I think that says
      it.

      Beta David


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    • Jim Bauer
      ... As far as this goes, what about the logion Blessed is the lion which the man eats, and the lion shall become man; and cursed is the man which the lion
      Message 2 of 4 , May 4, 1999
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        On Tue, 4 May 1999, Beta David wrote:

        > Re: The Big Fish
        >
        > I have one more question - maybe `someone` can help me with it: In *your*
        > opinion does the `fish`

        As far as this goes, what about the logion "Blessed is the lion which the
        man eats, and the lion shall become man; and cursed is the man which the
        lion eats, and the lion will become man?" Is he talking about the Lion of
        Judah or the lion-serpent Yaltaboaoth? And could "eating" have something
        to do with communion, perhaps an interpolation by an early Christian or
        Christian Gnostic group?

        > carry a prophetic message? I mentioned `parable of the weeds` in association
        > with it a while back
        > but I'm thinking more, how shall I say, heretical... Yes. I think that says
        > it.
        >
        > Beta David
        >
        >
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      • Beta David
        Re: The Big Fish (a sign?) Jim Bauer Dear Jim, The example you sited Re: prophecy ... --is (prophetically speaking) relevant, I think. I m curious if you think
        Message 3 of 4 , May 6, 1999
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          Re: The Big Fish (a sign?)
          Jim Bauer

          Dear Jim,

          The example you sited Re: prophecy

          >the logion "Blessed is the lion (...)
          >and cursed is the man (...)

          --is (prophetically speaking) relevant, I think. I'm curious if you think
          this text speaks to the dating
          question in any way - I think this (more later).

          Point:

          Gnostics were `not` noted, particularly, for ascribing to prophecy of the
          doomsdayish sort (and this
          is where I think your commentary is very correct), but that said, I'll
          follow up with an oddball point:

          A time ago I happened upon some Coptic fishing charms (or enchantments) and
          was struck by the
          prophecy in them.

          Generally they go something like: "Here fishy fishy come into my net [subtle
          evocation of egyptian
          gods within christian archetypes]. Then the cardinal points are summoned;
          with some procedural
          stuff tacked on at the end.

          These charms were obviously not theological; actually quite common, yet the
          images; especially
          concerning appeals within specific geography, (i.e. fish, here, now) caused
          me to think of the end
          result of Thomas' saying. Especially as, in Thomas, we see the `wise`
          fisherman having a selection to
          choose from.

          Of course there's a deeper significance, as you point out, but *on the
          surface* I'm struck by the
          purpose of prophesy in general (bringing something or causing something);
          yet in this Gnostic
          framework, where, like I said in my note, the sower is so utterly prominent,
          prior.

          A canonical reading of Matthew does reveal a good deal of prophecy following
          the sower and I
          can't help wondering about the `stilling of the storm` in other books
          either.

          There's a regular poster to this list who is up on relevant politics which I
          think are pertinent to the
          prophecy question. Perhaps he'll chime in - I'll consider sacrament.

          Cheers, Beta David
          betadavid (at) hotmail
          http://bigfoot.com/~betadavid

          PS: (again) I'm unaware if the Q-folks have an *exact target year in mind*
          for their document. I
          have been unable to find any info about this. If ANYONE has pertinent info.
          I'd appreciate them
          letting me know.


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        • Beta David
          Re: The Big Fish (a sign?) Jim Bauer (a follow up to this morning s post) Dear Jim, ... My view on the sacrament are... well they aren t very religious. I tend
          Message 4 of 4 , May 6, 1999
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            Re: The Big Fish (a sign?)
            Jim Bauer (a follow up to this morning's post)

            Dear Jim,

            >And could "eating" have something to do with communion

            My view on the sacrament are... well they aren't very religious. I tend to
            look at the question in
            historical terms; which causes me to see oft portrayed events somewhat
            differently than are
            promoted to us. I think without a context or a date of some sort the
            "eating" business doesn't say *as
            much* as it might; presupposing we could ascertain a date and say, "Well,
            obviously under these
            criteria we have a general meaning..."

            I don't mean to detract from the mysticism - however anyone perceives this
            or not - but I believe the
            sacrament could mean something in 100 Assyria but something else again in
            Egypt.

            I think there's a definitive answer; in this case especially. I mean,
            really, the sacrament is something
            that deserves specificity of the highest order. Don't think I take it
            lightly. "Interpolation" (or not)
            depends on time, really, but I lean this way to a degree, for sure.

            This fish business is a prime example; owing its proximity to the sower
            (which in Thomas continually
            `amazes` me). For example: Something not mentioned, Re `fish` --that is,
            `the (potential) boat`
            which I estimate is a possibility if we're talking fishing or sowing or
            prophecy for that matter. `Needs
            to be contemplated.

            There's a cultural underpinning to all this is what I'm saying and if we're
            awash in a 100-year wake
            then... 'Tell you what - you put a year on that assertion and I'll take a
            guess. If I put a year on it,
            well...

            Have a good weekend Jim.

            Beta David
            betadavid (at) hotmail.com
            http://bigfoot.com/~betadavid

            PS. But do - and I'll give it a whirl.

            STORY VALUE: Young unmarried women (maidens), traditionally, `were` virgins.


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