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Re: [GTh] New Indices at GThom Resource Center

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  • rickhubbardus
    Very nice work Mike! Sent from my iPhone
    Message 1 of 6 , May 4, 2013
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      Very nice work Mike! 

      Sent from my iPhone

      On May 3, 2013, at 1:58 PM, "Mike Grondin" <mwgrondin@...> wrote:

      I've long had a desire to make the indices on my website more user-friendly.
      Both the general index and the mini-indices under each saying list the sayings
      wherein each term occurs, but still the user who wants to peruse those
      occurrences has to look them up one-by-one, and then pick out the term
      from the verbiage. Two years ago, I made a first step in this direction by
      creating a complete set of 300+ images of sub-logia, then using them on
      http://gospel-thomas.net/keywords.htm, an unlinked page that allowed the
      user to look up a term that occurred in more than one saying in GT, and
      see all its occurrences on one page. The index turned out to be useful
      (I linked to many of its word-entries on-list), but it was in English, and
      never completed to my satisfaction, owing to yrs. truly running out of
      steam in the face of some difficult technical issues.
       
      The past couple weeks, I've been in conversation with a list member
      (who may not want his name mentioned at this point) about the Gospel
      of Mary. It occurred to me that someone translating this or any other
      Coptic text might want to see how a given Coptic word was used in
      CGT, but perhaps not know what its English translation was - or not
      know what English word to look up in the above index. The need for
      a source-language (Coptic and Greek) index was obvious. So for the
      past week, I've been setting that up, and am now ready to post the
      results to date. If you click on the above link, you will see that it now
      branches to three other pages: English, Coptic, and Greek. The Greek
      section is now complete. I'm still working on the Coptic, but it's far
      enough along to be put up for comment at least.
       
      Please take a look at the indices and tell me what you think, off-list
      or on. I'd much appreciate feedback on this work in progress.
       
      Mike Grondin
      Mt. Clemens, MI
       
    • Mike Grondin
      First, thanks to Mark M. & Rick for your kind responses. I ve been hard at work the last 12 days getting the Coptic index filled in (not done yet, but close).
      Message 2 of 6 , May 16, 2013
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        First, thanks to Mark M. & Rick for your kind responses. I've been hard at
        work the last 12 days getting the Coptic index filled in (not done yet, but
        close). As ya'll probably know, there are a great many more Coptic words
        than Greek in Gos.Thom. Along the way, I've changed things a bit from
        what I initially did with the Greek. Instead of dumping every single-saying
        word (SSW) into one file, I've been clumping SSW's that occur in the same
        saying together. This is both more informative, and makes searching easier,
        IMO.
         
        I'm not happy with the word 'concordance'. It suggests, I think, an accumulation
        of occurrences of English words, whereas what I'm after is an accumulation of
        occurrences of source-language words (Coptic or Greek). An accumulation by
        English word (e.g., Strong's Concordance) only works if the English translation
        (KJV in the case of Strong's) has always used the same English word for the
        same source-language word. There are, of course, cases where a source-language
        word has two or more distinct meanings, and I've covered that in my presentation,
        but the more usual case in free translations is that the translation gives different
        shades of meaning to the same word in different contexts, thus basically (to my
        mind) undercutting the usefulness of any English concordance based on it.
         
        To end this turgid mess with a question: is the term hapax legomenon applicable
        only (as one dictionary says) to "the entire corpus of a given language"? Or has
        it become acceptable to talk about a word as being a hapax legomenon relative
        to a given work or manuscript?
         
        Cheers,
        Mike G.
      • Stephen Carlson
        I think concordance is perfectly fine for source language work, and Coptic Concordance has a certain ring to it. Technically, the entire corpus of a given
        Message 3 of 6 , May 16, 2013
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          I think "concordance" is perfectly fine for source language work, and "Coptic Concordance" has a certain ring to it.

          Technically, "the entire corpus of a given language" is the correct meaning of hapax legomenon but NT scholars have long used the term as relative to a specific corpus. As long as you're clear about what the corpus is, I think you'll be OK.

          Stephen


          On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 9:09 PM, Mike Grondin <mwgrondin@...> wrote:
           

          First, thanks to Mark M. & Rick for your kind responses. I've been hard at
          work the last 12 days getting the Coptic index filled in (not done yet, but
          close). As ya'll probably know, there are a great many more Coptic words
          than Greek in Gos.Thom. Along the way, I've changed things a bit from
          what I initially did with the Greek. Instead of dumping every single-saying
          word (SSW) into one file, I've been clumping SSW's that occur in the same
          saying together. This is both more informative, and makes searching easier,
          IMO.
           
          I'm not happy with the word 'concordance'. It suggests, I think, an accumulation
          of occurrences of English words, whereas what I'm after is an accumulation of
          occurrences of source-language words (Coptic or Greek). An accumulation by
          English word (e.g., Strong's Concordance) only works if the English translation
          (KJV in the case of Strong's) has always used the same English word for the
          same source-language word. There are, of course, cases where a source-language
          word has two or more distinct meanings, and I've covered that in my presentation,
          but the more usual case in free translations is that the translation gives different
          shades of meaning to the same word in different contexts, thus basically (to my
          mind) undercutting the usefulness of any English concordance based on it.
           
          To end this turgid mess with a question: is the term hapax legomenon applicable
          only (as one dictionary says) to "the entire corpus of a given language"? Or has
          it become acceptable to talk about a word as being a hapax legomenon relative
          to a given work or manuscript?
           
          Cheers,
          Mike G.




          --
          --
          Stephen C. Carlson, Ph.D. (Duke)
          Post-Doctoral Fellow, Theology, Uppsala
        • Mike Grondin
          After three weeks work on the Coptic index, I m pleased (and relieved) to be able to announce that it s now reached the point where it includes basically all
          Message 4 of 6 , May 23, 2013
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            After three weeks work on the Coptic index, I'm pleased (and relieved)
            to be able to announce that it's now reached the point where it includes
            basically all the entries I had wanted to put into it. Although there is yet
            work to be done on it (checking against Layton's index, and the creation
            of half a dozen more 'Lnn only' files to replace entries in the 'Singles'
            files), I'd say that it's now moved out of the "in construction" phase.
            The concordance page is now http://gospel-thomas.net/concord.htm.
            I've also linked it to my main page, so it's no longer an orphan.
             
            Many thanks for the encouragement and help of list members.
             
            Mike Grondin
            Mt. Clemens, MI
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