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New Indices at GThom Resource Center

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  • Mike Grondin
    I ve long had a desire to make the indices on my website more user-friendly. Both the general index and the mini-indices under each saying list the sayings
    Message 1 of 6 , May 3, 2013
      I've long had a desire to make the indices on my website more user-friendly.
      Both the general index and the mini-indices under each saying list the sayings
      wherein each term occurs, but still the user who wants to peruse those
      occurrences has to look them up one-by-one, and then pick out the term
      from the verbiage. Two years ago, I made a first step in this direction by
      creating a complete set of 300+ images of sub-logia, then using them on
      http://gospel-thomas.net/keywords.htm, an unlinked page that allowed the
      user to look up a term that occurred in more than one saying in GT, and
      see all its occurrences on one page. The index turned out to be useful
      (I linked to many of its word-entries on-list), but it was in English, and
      never completed to my satisfaction, owing to yrs. truly running out of
      steam in the face of some difficult technical issues.
       
      The past couple weeks, I've been in conversation with a list member
      (who may not want his name mentioned at this point) about the Gospel
      of Mary. It occurred to me that someone translating this or any other
      Coptic text might want to see how a given Coptic word was used in
      CGT, but perhaps not know what its English translation was - or not
      know what English word to look up in the above index. The need for
      a source-language (Coptic and Greek) index was obvious. So for the
      past week, I've been setting that up, and am now ready to post the
      results to date. If you click on the above link, you will see that it now
      branches to three other pages: English, Coptic, and Greek. The Greek
      section is now complete. I'm still working on the Coptic, but it's far
      enough along to be put up for comment at least.
       
      Please take a look at the indices and tell me what you think, off-list
      or on. I'd much appreciate feedback on this work in progress.
       
      Mike Grondin
      Mt. Clemens, MI
       
    • Mark M. Mattison
      Thank you for making this available, Mike ... it is an awesome resource! -Mark
      Message 2 of 6 , May 3, 2013
        Thank you for making this available, Mike ... it is an awesome resource!

        -Mark
      • rickhubbardus
        Very nice work Mike! Sent from my iPhone
        Message 3 of 6 , May 4, 2013
          Very nice work Mike! 

          Sent from my iPhone

          On May 3, 2013, at 1:58 PM, "Mike Grondin" <mwgrondin@...> wrote:

          I've long had a desire to make the indices on my website more user-friendly.
          Both the general index and the mini-indices under each saying list the sayings
          wherein each term occurs, but still the user who wants to peruse those
          occurrences has to look them up one-by-one, and then pick out the term
          from the verbiage. Two years ago, I made a first step in this direction by
          creating a complete set of 300+ images of sub-logia, then using them on
          http://gospel-thomas.net/keywords.htm, an unlinked page that allowed the
          user to look up a term that occurred in more than one saying in GT, and
          see all its occurrences on one page. The index turned out to be useful
          (I linked to many of its word-entries on-list), but it was in English, and
          never completed to my satisfaction, owing to yrs. truly running out of
          steam in the face of some difficult technical issues.
           
          The past couple weeks, I've been in conversation with a list member
          (who may not want his name mentioned at this point) about the Gospel
          of Mary. It occurred to me that someone translating this or any other
          Coptic text might want to see how a given Coptic word was used in
          CGT, but perhaps not know what its English translation was - or not
          know what English word to look up in the above index. The need for
          a source-language (Coptic and Greek) index was obvious. So for the
          past week, I've been setting that up, and am now ready to post the
          results to date. If you click on the above link, you will see that it now
          branches to three other pages: English, Coptic, and Greek. The Greek
          section is now complete. I'm still working on the Coptic, but it's far
          enough along to be put up for comment at least.
           
          Please take a look at the indices and tell me what you think, off-list
          or on. I'd much appreciate feedback on this work in progress.
           
          Mike Grondin
          Mt. Clemens, MI
           
        • Mike Grondin
          First, thanks to Mark M. & Rick for your kind responses. I ve been hard at work the last 12 days getting the Coptic index filled in (not done yet, but close).
          Message 4 of 6 , May 16, 2013
            First, thanks to Mark M. & Rick for your kind responses. I've been hard at
            work the last 12 days getting the Coptic index filled in (not done yet, but
            close). As ya'll probably know, there are a great many more Coptic words
            than Greek in Gos.Thom. Along the way, I've changed things a bit from
            what I initially did with the Greek. Instead of dumping every single-saying
            word (SSW) into one file, I've been clumping SSW's that occur in the same
            saying together. This is both more informative, and makes searching easier,
            IMO.
             
            I'm not happy with the word 'concordance'. It suggests, I think, an accumulation
            of occurrences of English words, whereas what I'm after is an accumulation of
            occurrences of source-language words (Coptic or Greek). An accumulation by
            English word (e.g., Strong's Concordance) only works if the English translation
            (KJV in the case of Strong's) has always used the same English word for the
            same source-language word. There are, of course, cases where a source-language
            word has two or more distinct meanings, and I've covered that in my presentation,
            but the more usual case in free translations is that the translation gives different
            shades of meaning to the same word in different contexts, thus basically (to my
            mind) undercutting the usefulness of any English concordance based on it.
             
            To end this turgid mess with a question: is the term hapax legomenon applicable
            only (as one dictionary says) to "the entire corpus of a given language"? Or has
            it become acceptable to talk about a word as being a hapax legomenon relative
            to a given work or manuscript?
             
            Cheers,
            Mike G.
          • Stephen Carlson
            I think concordance is perfectly fine for source language work, and Coptic Concordance has a certain ring to it. Technically, the entire corpus of a given
            Message 5 of 6 , May 16, 2013
              I think "concordance" is perfectly fine for source language work, and "Coptic Concordance" has a certain ring to it.

              Technically, "the entire corpus of a given language" is the correct meaning of hapax legomenon but NT scholars have long used the term as relative to a specific corpus. As long as you're clear about what the corpus is, I think you'll be OK.

              Stephen


              On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 9:09 PM, Mike Grondin <mwgrondin@...> wrote:
               

              First, thanks to Mark M. & Rick for your kind responses. I've been hard at
              work the last 12 days getting the Coptic index filled in (not done yet, but
              close). As ya'll probably know, there are a great many more Coptic words
              than Greek in Gos.Thom. Along the way, I've changed things a bit from
              what I initially did with the Greek. Instead of dumping every single-saying
              word (SSW) into one file, I've been clumping SSW's that occur in the same
              saying together. This is both more informative, and makes searching easier,
              IMO.
               
              I'm not happy with the word 'concordance'. It suggests, I think, an accumulation
              of occurrences of English words, whereas what I'm after is an accumulation of
              occurrences of source-language words (Coptic or Greek). An accumulation by
              English word (e.g., Strong's Concordance) only works if the English translation
              (KJV in the case of Strong's) has always used the same English word for the
              same source-language word. There are, of course, cases where a source-language
              word has two or more distinct meanings, and I've covered that in my presentation,
              but the more usual case in free translations is that the translation gives different
              shades of meaning to the same word in different contexts, thus basically (to my
              mind) undercutting the usefulness of any English concordance based on it.
               
              To end this turgid mess with a question: is the term hapax legomenon applicable
              only (as one dictionary says) to "the entire corpus of a given language"? Or has
              it become acceptable to talk about a word as being a hapax legomenon relative
              to a given work or manuscript?
               
              Cheers,
              Mike G.




              --
              --
              Stephen C. Carlson, Ph.D. (Duke)
              Post-Doctoral Fellow, Theology, Uppsala
            • Mike Grondin
              After three weeks work on the Coptic index, I m pleased (and relieved) to be able to announce that it s now reached the point where it includes basically all
              Message 6 of 6 , May 23, 2013
                After three weeks work on the Coptic index, I'm pleased (and relieved)
                to be able to announce that it's now reached the point where it includes
                basically all the entries I had wanted to put into it. Although there is yet
                work to be done on it (checking against Layton's index, and the creation
                of half a dozen more 'Lnn only' files to replace entries in the 'Singles'
                files), I'd say that it's now moved out of the "in construction" phase.
                The concordance page is now http://gospel-thomas.net/concord.htm.
                I've also linked it to my main page, so it's no longer an orphan.
                 
                Many thanks for the encouragement and help of list members.
                 
                Mike Grondin
                Mt. Clemens, MI
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