Re: [GTh] Bernhard's New Essay on GJW
- Hi Ian,I agree that there has been little engagement with the evidence on eitherside. The essays of Peppard and Paananen are outdated, since they wereresponses to the first version of Watson's essay. The revised versionof Watson's paper is also outdated, but there hasn't been any responseeven to that. Andrew B's latest essay is now the one to look at, and Imust say that your characterization of it doesn't do it justice. The linkagesto CGT are much more precise than your wording suggests. But turningto the other side of the coin, Stephen Carlson has made a good start bysuggesting that the supposed Munro note about the fragment be carefullychecked for authenticity (though the date of it will still remain in question.)Here's some other points of contact:1. It is evident that the papyrologists who initially examined the fragmentwere not well-versed in CGT. They spotted some similarities, but wereunaware of the extent of agreement. It was only when this became obviousthat the HTR article was delayed, and additional tests called for. Had theHarvard people not thought that the forgery case was strong, I doubt ifthis would have happened.2. The dating of the papyrus is irrelevant. As you no doubt know, oldpieces of blank papyrus (or with faded writing) can be obtained. Evenink consistent with antiquity can be produced. (What happened to thatscheduled ink-test, BTW?)3. "consistent with the handwriting of 4th century Coptic scribes":Well, in the first place, there were a variety of styles. Secondly, itdoesn't strike me as particularly difficult to copy one of those styles.What you don't mention is that the writing instrument used was not acommon one, nor is the blunt lettering very common either. ChristianAskeland has also drawn attention to the unusual shaping of the omega.Which is not to say that it's impossible for the inscription to have beendone in antiquity, but that the evidence isn't as strong as one might think.It would be good if Bagnall and/or HDS/HTR would make analogousexemplars available, but to my knowledge they haven't. Indeed, thesilence of Bagnall and the whole King team since the initial publicityhas been curious.Such are the first thoughts that come to me, anyway, in responseto your comments.Mike Grondin
- On 12 November 2012 15:28, Mike Grondin <mwgrondin@...> wrote:
> 1. It is evident that the papyrologists who initially examined theYes, it's clear from King's HTR article that she and the others had
> were not well-versed in CGT. They spotted some similarities, but were
> unaware of the extent of agreement. It was only when this became obvious
> that the HTR article was delayed, and additional tests called for. Had the
> Harvard people not thought that the forgery case was strong, I doubt if
> this would have happened.
not realized the full extent of the borrowing from Coptic Thomas.
This is not criticism of King or others -- I didn't spot it at first
either; it was only after prolonged staring at it that it became
clear. This is just the natural progress of scholarship -- sometimes
it takes time and many pairs of eyes to see things that in the end are
The breakthrough in Watson's piece was in realizing that the links
were not simply those of the natural relationship of literary works to
one another (as, e.g. intra-Synoptically or Thomas-Synoptics) but
specifically in Coptic Thomas from Codex II and the Jesus' Wife
> 2. The dating of the papyrus is irrelevant. As you no doubt know, oldIan may be right that there has been carbon dating of the papyrus, but
> pieces of blank papyrus (or with faded writing) can be obtained. Even
> ink consistent with antiquity can be produced. (What happened to that
> scheduled ink-test, BTW?)
I have not seen reference to this. The ink test is still pending. The
most recent statement I have seen on this is the recent Boston Globe
article (which I'll blog shortly).
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- A well written article from the Boston Globe on Karen King.