At 09:50 PM 8/3/2012, Mike Grondin wrote:
(in L3 and
... Among the sayings he
(Martin) quoted was L114. What caught my attention was
the word 'attract' in "I am going to attract her to make her
Curious about that, I went to see how Layton had translated the two
other occurrences of the Coptic word
Layton translates L3.1 in parte
as "If those who lead
you say to you..."
but he has the following footnote: "The Greek fragment (P.Oxy.
instead has 'attract'." Well, OK, but what does he do with that
Nothing in L3.1, but he uses 'attract' in L114.2 when there isn't
POxy data to compare! In other words, where there's a POxy word
that he thinks means 'attract' (L3.1), he doesn't
but when there's no POxy evidence (L114.2), he does
! There is
no POxy evidence for L34, but there he uses the word 'lead' ("If a
person leads a blind person ..."), instead of 'attract'. It would
that consistency would demand that L114.2 be translated as 'lead' as
especially as 'attract' has connotations that might easily be
Does the Greek word in question actually mean 'attract'? Well, of
any word has a range of meanings, but in Andrew Bernhard's interlinear
of the Greek fragments, the word in question (hELKONTES) is translated
as 'pulling'. My linguistic sensitivities don't detect much
between 'pull' and 'lead' -- or say 'draw', which is also sometimes used.
But I do sense that the word 'attract' suggests a somewhat different
between the two people involved than these other words do - perhaps a
active role for the one person and less active for the other? At any
are the considerations that make me less than keen on 'attract' in L114.2
(If anyone has some thoughts on the Greek word involved, come on
I'm interested in the semantic range of the words involved, and what the
author is trying to express. I think that perhaps "attract" is
on target, but too weak for what the author intends, which may be that
the "attraction" is more compelling, persuasive, or seductive?
Or is there another Greek word for those things? The sense of your quote
sounds to me like an attempt to persuade or seduce, and "to make her
male" does not sound like a voluntary association.
Part of the issue here is agency. For example, "pull" implies
that the object of attraction is not inert, but exerting some force on
the follower. "Lead" is somewhat balanced in this regard,
involving interaction by leader and follower. I might find an
advertisement "attractive," but that doesn't mean that I'm
going to buy what they're selling.
Another example: Decades ago, my parents were considering joining a
Baptist church with a preacher who some family members knew. But during
the service, there was an altar call. The preacher was obviously trying
to "lead," and some members found the call
"attractive," because they answered it. However, my parents
didn't like it, and never went back to that church.
Northern Arizona University