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7197Re: [GTh] Recovering Thomas

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  • sarban
    Jul 22, 2006
      ----- Original Message -----

      From: Michael Grondin

      To: gthomas@yahoogroups.com

      Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2006 6:01 AM

      Subject: Re: [GTh] Recovering Thomas

      [Andrew Criddle wrote]:
      >> As a resource for evaluating the relation of Thomas to the Pseudo-
      >> Clementines I'm posting here the most important parallels between
      >> Thomas and the Pseudo-Clementine Literature

      >Hi Andrew,
      >Your note quotes sayings titled as 12, 16, 39, and 93, but the
      >one titled 12 is actually 76. In addition, one wonders why you
      >list only four now whereas you mentioned seven earlier in the
      >following statement:

      >> The main sayings concerned are Logions 9 16 39 40 68 76 93

      Hi Mike

      12 should be 76 as you say, my stupid mistake sorry.

      I left out 9 where there is apparently a parallel in the Recognitions with 'on the road' rather than 'along the road' as in the synoptics 40 which has a parallel in the Homilies with 'the Father' rather than 'my Father' in the synoptics and 68 where there is a parallel with the Homilies in being hated rather than having men hate you as in the synoptics.

      The four I included all have more than one point of agreement against the synoptics.

      >Aside from that, however, I'm finding it difficult to understand
      >what importance or interest there is in these parallels. Your
      >earlier statement:

      >> What I meant to say was that the only Thomas sayings
      >> paralleled in the Pseudo-Clementines are ones which occur
      >> in the putative kernel and have canonical Gospel parallels.

      >.... seems to suggest that DeConick is using the parallels as
      >supporting evidence that those Thomas sayings she identifies
      >as the kernel are really earlier than the others. Is that it? If so,
      >it seems rather weak evidence in itself, since not only is it
      >not the case that _all_ kernel sayings are paralleled in the
      >Ps-Clem's, but even that _most aren't_ (based on your list).
      >But this may not be what DeConick had in mind, so I won't
      >pursue it at this point. What I would like to know is why the
      >Ps-Clem parallels are important to DeConick.

      What DeConick thinks important is that none of the parallels with the Pseudo-Clementines (and only saying 113 among the parallels to the Diatessaron) are parallels to non-Kernel texts. She argues (rightly or wrongly) that his supports early knowledge of a version of Thomas which contained the kernel but not later sayings.

      >May I also add to my earlier request (that pp. 242-3 be made
      >publicly available) that you or anyone else who has the book
      >list (by number) those sayings and parts of sayings that she
      >now includes in the supposed kernel? (I could list those which
      >appear in her earlier article, but the list in her book may differ.)

      The full list of sayings listed on 242-3 by DeConick as paralleled in The Pseudo-Clementines is 9,16,32,39,40,54,62,64,68,76,93,95.

      The parallels to the Diatessaron are Quispel 6,8,9,16,21,25,32,33,35,36,39,40,44,45,46,47,48,55,57,63,64,66,68,74,79,86,89,90,91,94,95,96,98,100,104,109,113

      and Baarda 4,8,9,10,16,20,21,26,32,33,34,35,38,39,40,44,45,46,47,48,54,55,56,57,61,63,64,65,68,69,72,73,76,78,79,86,89,91,93,94,96,99,100,104,107,113

      The list of the kernel is 2,4(2-3),5,6(2-3),8,9,10,11(1),14(4),15,16(1-3),17,20(2-4),21(5),21(10-11),23(1),24(2-3),25,26,30,31,32,33,34,35,36,38(1),39,40,41,42,44(2-3),45,46(1-2a,c),47,48,54,55,57,58,61(1),62(1-2),63(1-4),64(1-11),65(1-8),66,68(1),69(2),71,72,73,74,76,78,79,81,82,86,89,90,91(2),92,93,94,95,96(1-3),97,98,99,100(1-3),102,103,104,107,109,111(1)

      Also 12 and 68(2) are regarded as very early additions to the kernel

      Andrew Criddle

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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