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1381[gthomas] Re: Pre or post-Easter Jesus

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  • Achilles37@aol.com
    Aug 13 4:34 AM
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      In a message dated 99-08-13 02:13:41 EDT,
      Joseph Baxter writes:

      << Gthomas incorporates some of the sayings from the
      other Gospels (4G). >>

      If, by this, you mean to imply that Thomas was dependent
      on the canonical gospels, then we differ here. If, on the other
      hand, you are merely pointing out that they overlap, then
      you are certainly correct.

      To get to your next point - that the sayings that are unique
      to Thomas are post-Easter. By what evidence? If you are
      willing to grant that the overlapping sayings are pre-Easter,
      what makes you believe that sayings not in the 4G imply
      a post-Easter framework? Certainly the "overlapping" sayings
      are mixed in with the "unique" sayings and the text itself
      implies no difference between these types of sayings,
      i.e., this is a distinction you are making which is not
      to be found in the text itself. If the author provides no cues,
      then your framework is external, rather than internal.
      And since the framework is external, it might as well be the
      framework of Mahayana Buddhism, as Steve suggested,
      or anything else you might want to arbitrarily impose.

      In terms of the idea that Jesus survived the cross,
      again, where is the evidence? Is it just that this seems
      to be the most natural explanation to account for
      stories that he was seen again? Or do we have
      evidence of others who survived crucifixion by the
      Romans? At any rate, this concept is irrelevant to
      the Gospel of Thomas. If you want to state, as you
      do, that certain sayings in GThomas should be
      understood in the light of a post-crucifixion framework,
      (since "post-Easter" will no longer suffice as you
      deny the Resurrection here), then whether he rose
      from the dead or survived through some other means is
      immaterial, unless you are arguing that there are clues
      to his surviving the cross in the Gospel of Thomas.
      And if that is the case, then we have moved from the
      realm of evidence and argument into the sphere of
      speculation and projection and GThomas once again
      becomes the spiritual equivalent of a Rorschach ink
      blot test.

      - Kevin Johnson
      (Achiless37@... / kjohnson@...)
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