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Toyota introducing Prius with auxiliary power capability

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  • Felix Kramer
    This was the subject of much discussion on the Prius_Tech_Stuff list about a year ago...it would be nice if Toyota made the option widely available! Friday,
    Message 1 of 9 , Mar 1, 2005
      This was the subject of much discussion on the Prius_Tech_Stuff list about
      a year ago...it would be nice if Toyota made the option widely available!

      Friday, February 25, 2005 FuelsAndVehicles.com Daily Updates

      Toyota To Unveil Prius With Large Auxiliary Power Capability

      Your car could power your home if a prototype Prius makes it to market,
      Toyota officials tell Inside Fuels and Vehicles. The vehicle will be
      unveiled next week at the annual meeting of the National Rural Electric
      Cooperative Association in San Diego.

      The ability to power a home takes it one step beyond the capability of mild
      hybrids produced by General Motors. The hybrid-electric Sierra and
      Silverado pickup trucks have 120-volt, single phase, alternating current
      electrical outlets in both the cab and pickup bed. The vehicles were touted
      as a boon to municipals and the Florida state government in grappling with
      the aftermath of a series of hurricanes, which cut power to wide swaths of
      the state.

      After the announcement in San Diego the auxiliary power capable Prius will
      be leased to a rural electric cooperative for 90 days for field testing in
      Oklahoma "to identify technical issues and determine if there is a
      commercial market" for the technology, according to a Toyota official.

      The Prius would provide 3 kilowatts at 120 volts, enough to power the
      typical home. The vehicle would come with an electrical cable that would be
      attached to a slightly modified residential electric meter. The
      modification, which a Toyota official characterized as "low cost," is
      required not only to be able to connect the auxiliary power capable Prius
      to the home but also to prevent power from being fed back into the power
      grid. This is largely a safety issue. A power company repairman working on
      electrical lines may be unaware power is being fed into the grid from
      individual homes. This would open up the possibility of injury or
      electrocution.

      Up to now, the Toyota Prius has mainly appealed to suburban commuters
      taking advantage of the fuel saving technology that delivers best in
      typical stop-and-go commuter traffic. Behind California, hybrids sales are
      highest in Virginia, driven by the state allowing commuters driving hybrids
      to use high-occupancy lanes without the required passengers.

      Introducing the new capability of the Prius brings hybrid technology not
      only to farmers but to the heartland, where hybrid sales, and sales of
      imports in general, have not fared as well as along the East and West
      Coasts. While GM has tailored its Sierra and Silverado hybrid-electric
      vehicle marketing to mainly construction workers and contractors, Toyota
      seems to be going after the farmer.


      -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
      Felix Kramer fkramer@...
      Founder California Cars Initiative
      http://www.calcars.org
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/priusplus/
      -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
    • d0li0
      ... That s great and all, plugging your house into your Prius. I m more interested in being able to plug a Prius into a house? L8r Ryan
      Message 2 of 9 , Mar 1, 2005
        --- In gridable-hybrids@yahoogroups.com, Felix Kramer wrote:

        That's great and all, plugging your house into your Prius.
        I'm more interested in being able to plug a Prius into a house?

        L8r
        Ryan
      • altengnw32
        I have some questions about this: 1. Does this Toyota have a larger battery than the regular Prius? 2. If so, what is the range of with the larger battery? 3.
        Message 3 of 9 , Mar 2, 2005
          I have some questions about this:

          1. Does this Toyota have a larger battery than the regular Prius?

          2. If so, what is the range of with the larger battery?

          3. Does this power your house capability only work when the engine
          is running?

          Thanks,

          Lawrence


          --- In gridable-hybrids@yahoogroups.com, Felix Kramer <fkramer@c...>
          wrote:
          > This was the subject of much discussion on the Prius_Tech_Stuff
          list about
          > a year ago...it would be nice if Toyota made the option widely
          available!
          >
          > Friday, February 25, 2005 FuelsAndVehicles.com Daily
          Updates
          >
          > Toyota To Unveil Prius With Large Auxiliary Power Capability
          >
          > Your car could power your home if a prototype Prius makes it to
          market,
          > Toyota officials tell Inside Fuels and Vehicles. The vehicle will
          be
          > unveiled next week at the annual meeting of the National Rural
          Electric
          > Cooperative Association in San Diego.
          >
          > The ability to power a home takes it one step beyond the
          capability of mild
          > hybrids produced by General Motors. The hybrid-electric Sierra and
          > Silverado pickup trucks have 120-volt, single phase, alternating
          current
          > electrical outlets in both the cab and pickup bed. The vehicles
          were touted
          > as a boon to municipals and the Florida state government in
          grappling with
          > the aftermath of a series of hurricanes, which cut power to wide
          swaths of
          > the state.
          >
          > After the announcement in San Diego the auxiliary power capable
          Prius will
          > be leased to a rural electric cooperative for 90 days for field
          testing in
          > Oklahoma "to identify technical issues and determine if there is a
          > commercial market" for the technology, according to a Toyota
          official.
          >
          > The Prius would provide 3 kilowatts at 120 volts, enough to power
          the
          > typical home. The vehicle would come with an electrical cable that
          would be
          > attached to a slightly modified residential electric meter. The
          > modification, which a Toyota official characterized as "low cost,"
          is
          > required not only to be able to connect the auxiliary power
          capable Prius
          > to the home but also to prevent power from being fed back into the
          power
          > grid. This is largely a safety issue. A power company repairman
          working on
          > electrical lines may be unaware power is being fed into the grid
          from
          > individual homes. This would open up the possibility of injury or
          > electrocution.
          >
          > Up to now, the Toyota Prius has mainly appealed to suburban
          commuters
          > taking advantage of the fuel saving technology that delivers best
          in
          > typical stop-and-go commuter traffic. Behind California, hybrids
          sales are
          > highest in Virginia, driven by the state allowing commuters
          driving hybrids
          > to use high-occupancy lanes without the required passengers.
          >
          > Introducing the new capability of the Prius brings hybrid
          technology not
          > only to farmers but to the heartland, where hybrid sales, and
          sales of
          > imports in general, have not fared as well as along the East and
          West
          > Coasts. While GM has tailored its Sierra and Silverado hybrid-
          electric
          > vehicle marketing to mainly construction workers and contractors,
          Toyota
          > seems to be going after the farmer.
          >
          >
          > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
          > Felix Kramer fkramer@c...
          > Founder California Cars Initiative
          > http://www.calcars.org
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/priusplus/
          > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
        • Lee Dekker
          Yes, indeed, and Toyota could also characterize an on board charger and bigger battery as “low cost”. Extremely low cost after the first few hundred were
          Message 4 of 9 , Mar 2, 2005
            Yes, indeed, and Toyota could also characterize an on board charger and bigger battery as
            �low cost�. Extremely low cost after the first few hundred were saved on gas bills.


            --- d0li0 <d0li0@...> wrote:

            >
            > --- In gridable-hybrids@yahoogroups.com, Felix Kramer wrote:
            >
            > That's great and all, plugging your house into your Prius.
            > I'm more interested in being able to plug a Prius into a house?
            >
            > L8r
            > Ryan
            >
            >
            >
            >


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          • drewnesea
            this is a very interesting and timely development. two major things need to be accomplised for it to be practical. First the power must be able to be fed back
            Message 5 of 9 , Mar 2, 2005
              this is a very interesting and timely development. two major things
              need to be accomplised for it to be practical.
              First the power must be able to be fed back to the grid. Many
              renewable energy inverter electric systems have this capability at
              the present time. There are tens of thousands of them in existence
              now. The safety issues (most of which are utility company
              engineering red herring to prevent use of the grid) have been worked
              out in current electrical code and products. The toyota system looks
              like it could be used to displace grid power, but it is nicer to
              directly interface.
              Second Toyota (or a group like Calcars) must develop an easy
              means to connect the waste heat radiator and inverter liquid stream
              to a building to serve its hot water, heating and cooling needs,
              thus using all of the energy in the fuel (which of course will
              ultimately be renewable). Currently about 75%% of the fuel is wasted
              as heat. This must be recovered and used if running the engine for
              grid power is to be economic. This is the more difficult of the two
              tasks requiring the development of a standard thermal interface
              (hose connection ) and the appropriate communication between the
              building and the auto, but is is doable (plugin hydraulic
              connnections on a removable snowplow being a starting point.) The
              bluetooth phone connection of the 05 prius being another useful
              component.
              If these are accomplished than one prime mover can serve the
              home, transportation and office thermal and electrical needs. This
              would improve the economics and better amortize the automobile over
              more than the typical 2000 hours a vehicle is driven in 10 years
              (80000 hours).
              One can envision an auto which plugged in at home provides
              electric power and thermal energy from a renewable fuel (such as
              biodiesel) , overnight, and then with a full battery is driven
              cleanly to work where it is replugged in to power the grid, recharge
              its battery and provide thermal energy to the office heating and
              cooling system. There has been a considerable amount of research on
              this done in the renewable energy and cogeneration fields, but very
              little on autos.
              Now is the time. it is simply ridiculous aving a $30000
              automobile doing nothing but cooling its jets and rusting parked
              for most of the year.

              by the way the average house has an average electrical consumption
              of only about 1 kw so we are going to have to do something with the
              electrical output if we run the engine for heat hence the need for
              the grid tie.

              --- In gridable-hybrids@yahoogroups.com, Felix Kramer <fkramer@c...>
              wrote:
              > This was the subject of much discussion on the Prius_Tech_Stuff
              list about
              > a year ago...it would be nice if Toyota made the option widely
              available!
              >
              > Friday, February 25, 2005 FuelsAndVehicles.com Daily
              Updates
              >
              > Toyota To Unveil Prius With Large Auxiliary Power Capability
              >
              > Your car could power your home if a prototype Prius makes it to
              market,
              > Toyota officials tell Inside Fuels and Vehicles. The vehicle will
              be
              > unveiled next week at the annual meeting of the National Rural
              Electric
              > Cooperative Association in San Diego.
              >
              > The ability to power a home takes it one step beyond the
              capability of mild
              > hybrids produced by General Motors. The hybrid-electric Sierra and
              > Silverado pickup trucks have 120-volt, single phase, alternating
              current
              > electrical outlets in both the cab and pickup bed. The vehicles
              were touted
              > as a boon to municipals and the Florida state government in
              grappling with
              > the aftermath of a series of hurricanes, which cut power to wide
              swaths of
              > the state.
              >
              > After the announcement in San Diego the auxiliary power capable
              Prius will
              > be leased to a rural electric cooperative for 90 days for field
              testing in
              > Oklahoma "to identify technical issues and determine if there is a
              > commercial market" for the technology, according to a Toyota
              official.
              >
              > The Prius would provide 3 kilowatts at 120 volts, enough to power
              the
              > typical home. The vehicle would come with an electrical cable that
              would be
              > attached to a slightly modified residential electric meter. The
              > modification, which a Toyota official characterized as "low cost,"
              is
              > required not only to be able to connect the auxiliary power
              capable Prius
              > to the home but also to prevent power from being fed back into the
              power
              > grid. This is largely a safety issue. A power company repairman
              working on
              > electrical lines may be unaware power is being fed into the grid
              from
              > individual homes. This would open up the possibility of injury or
              > electrocution.
              >
              > Up to now, the Toyota Prius has mainly appealed to suburban
              commuters
              > taking advantage of the fuel saving technology that delivers best
              in
              > typical stop-and-go commuter traffic. Behind California, hybrids
              sales are
              > highest in Virginia, driven by the state allowing commuters
              driving hybrids
              > to use high-occupancy lanes without the required passengers.
              >
              > Introducing the new capability of the Prius brings hybrid
              technology not
              > only to farmers but to the heartland, where hybrid sales, and
              sales of
              > imports in general, have not fared as well as along the East and
              West
              > Coasts. While GM has tailored its Sierra and Silverado hybrid-
              electric
              > vehicle marketing to mainly construction workers and contractors,
              Toyota
              > seems to be going after the farmer.
              >
              >
              > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
              > Felix Kramer fkramer@c...
              > Founder California Cars Initiative
              > http://www.calcars.org
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/priusplus/
              > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
            • priusmaniac
              That is an interesting development. Do you know if it will be possible to retrofit a present Prius II with the system ? Patrick ... list about ... available!
              Message 6 of 9 , Mar 10, 2005
                That is an interesting development.

                Do you know if it will be possible to retrofit a present Prius II
                with the system ?

                Patrick

                --- In gridable-hybrids@yahoogroups.com, Felix Kramer <fkramer@c...>
                wrote:
                > This was the subject of much discussion on the Prius_Tech_Stuff
                list about
                > a year ago...it would be nice if Toyota made the option widely
                available!
                >
                > Friday, February 25, 2005 FuelsAndVehicles.com Daily
                Updates
                >
                > Toyota To Unveil Prius With Large Auxiliary Power Capability
                >
                > Your car could power your home if a prototype Prius makes it to
                market,
                > Toyota officials tell Inside Fuels and Vehicles. The vehicle will
                be
                > unveiled next week at the annual meeting of the National Rural
                Electric
                > Cooperative Association in San Diego.
                >
                > The ability to power a home takes it one step beyond the
                capability of mild
                > hybrids produced by General Motors. The hybrid-electric Sierra and
                > Silverado pickup trucks have 120-volt, single phase, alternating
                current
                > electrical outlets in both the cab and pickup bed. The vehicles
                were touted
                > as a boon to municipals and the Florida state government in
                grappling with
                > the aftermath of a series of hurricanes, which cut power to wide
                swaths of
                > the state.
                >
                > After the announcement in San Diego the auxiliary power capable
                Prius will
                > be leased to a rural electric cooperative for 90 days for field
                testing in
                > Oklahoma "to identify technical issues and determine if there is a
                > commercial market" for the technology, according to a Toyota
                official.
                >
                > The Prius would provide 3 kilowatts at 120 volts, enough to power
                the
                > typical home. The vehicle would come with an electrical cable that
                would be
                > attached to a slightly modified residential electric meter. The
                > modification, which a Toyota official characterized as "low cost,"
                is
                > required not only to be able to connect the auxiliary power
                capable Prius
                > to the home but also to prevent power from being fed back into the
                power
                > grid. This is largely a safety issue. A power company repairman
                working on
                > electrical lines may be unaware power is being fed into the grid
                from
                > individual homes. This would open up the possibility of injury or
                > electrocution.
                >
                > Up to now, the Toyota Prius has mainly appealed to suburban
                commuters
                > taking advantage of the fuel saving technology that delivers best
                in
                > typical stop-and-go commuter traffic. Behind California, hybrids
                sales are
                > highest in Virginia, driven by the state allowing commuters
                driving hybrids
                > to use high-occupancy lanes without the required passengers.
                >
                > Introducing the new capability of the Prius brings hybrid
                technology not
                > only to farmers but to the heartland, where hybrid sales, and
                sales of
                > imports in general, have not fared as well as along the East and
                West
                > Coasts. While GM has tailored its Sierra and Silverado hybrid-
                electric
                > vehicle marketing to mainly construction workers and contractors,
                Toyota
                > seems to be going after the farmer.
                >
                >
                > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
                > Felix Kramer fkramer@c...
                > Founder California Cars Initiative
                > http://www.calcars.org
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/priusplus/
                > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
              • Troy Heagy
                ... Why? So we can all burn *more* gasoline? I don t understand the point? An electrical plant is far more efficient than a Prius generator. Right? troy
                Message 7 of 9 , Mar 10, 2005
                  > From: "drewnesea" <deaneg@...>
                  >the power must be able to feed back to the grid.


                  Why? So we can all burn *more* gasoline? I don't
                  understand the point? An electrical plant is far more
                  efficient than a Prius generator. Right?


                  troy

                  http://www.thelibertycommittee.org
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                • william von novak
                  ... Even an efficient car like a Prius is a much less efficient power generator than a combined cycle natural gas power plant. You re better off using the
                  Message 8 of 9 , Mar 14, 2005
                    > First the power must be able to be fed back to the grid.

                    Even an efficient car like a Prius is a much less efficient power
                    generator than a combined cycle natural gas power plant. You're
                    better off using the natural gas power plant for electrical power
                    and gasoline for transportation. I know, that's not as much fun,
                    but it is more efficient.

                    > Second Toyota (or a group like Calcars) must develop an easy
                    > means to connect the waste heat radiator and inverter liquid
                    stream
                    > to a building to serve its hot water, heating and cooling needs,
                    > thus using all of the energy in the fuel (which of course will
                    > ultimately be renewable).

                    Nice idea, but an easy to use self sealing fluid/gas disconnect
                    (after all, much of the waste heat goes right out the tailpipe) is
                    not going to be easy, cheap, convenient or even very safe. Again,
                    an efficient gas water heater is going to do more heating of water
                    for less fuel used.

                    The use of the Prius for emergency power is a novel idea, one that
                    other companies (GM) have already used as a selling point. I think
                    its utility will lie in its mobility; having a rolling self-
                    propelled generator is pretty convenient. But while it makes a
                    convenient generator, I don't think it would make a very efficient
                    one - at least compared to modern power plants.
                  • panhead57cr
                    ... Hi Felix: Boy I feel like an idiot. I have been researching using a Prius as a gen/set for the last two months as evidenced at http://priups.com/ and can t
                    Message 9 of 9 , Jul 11, 2005
                      --- In gridable-hybrids@yahoogroups.com, Felix Kramer <fkramer@c...> wrote:
                      > This was the subject of much discussion on the Prius_Tech_Stuff list about
                      > a year ago...it would be nice if Toyota made the option widely available!
                      >
                      > Friday, February 25, 2005 FuelsAndVehicles.com Daily Updates
                      >
                      > Toyota To Unveil Prius With Large Auxiliary Power Capability
                      >

                      Hi Felix:

                      Boy I feel like an idiot. I have been researching using a Prius as a gen/set for the last
                      two months as evidenced at http://priups.com/ and can't find anything on Google
                      about this new Toyota prototype. Do you have any further information or know
                      someone who I contact?

                      Nonetheless based upon what we learned this prototype has some very curious
                      attributes. To begin with a stock Prius should be able to output twice as much power
                      off the HV battery. The 120 VAC grid tie seems unusual for several reasons that I
                      won't bore you with nor am I expert in.


                      Thanks;
                      Michael Grace
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