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RE: [greenwichcyclists] Cycling at Cutty Sark Gardens

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  • Bob Walkden
    I ve been there this evening. There was no problem cycling on the starboard side of Cutty Sark, but on the port side they were out mob-handed and all the other
    Message 1 of 8 , May 3, 2012
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      I've been there this evening. There was no problem cycling on the starboard side of Cutty Sark, but on the port side they were out mob-handed and all the other cyclists I saw were pushing their bikes as far as the bollards by the Gipsy Moth.

       

      Now, before the refurb there was a road each side of Cutty Sark, and they are still clearly distinguished from the pavements and other obvious pedestrian areas such as the top of the underground car park, rather in the way that 'naked' roads are, such as Exhibition Road.

       

      It seems to me that they probably have no right to stop people cycling on the road parts, and I wonder if their instructions are simply not clear as to where to stop people.

       

      This is presumably being paid for out of our council tax. It seems like a complete waste of money to me.

       

      B

       

      From: greenwichcyclists@yahoogroups.com [mailto:greenwichcyclists@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Louise
      Sent: 03 May 2012 11:30
      To: greenwichcyclists@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [greenwichcyclists] Cycling at Cutty Sark Gardens

       

       

      Many of us have been dismayed by the recent attempt to prohibit cycling across Cutty Sark Gardens (CSG). Especially coming so soon after the much-delayed opening of the foot tunnel lifts and their little "teething problems".
      The situation as we understand it today is as follows. The many Environmental Service Wardens from the Borough have been instructed to prevent cycling in a north-south direction on either side of the Cutty Sark. They have declared that they are allowing cycling east-west, that is in front of the tunnel entrance. Greenwich Cyclists is seeking urgent clarification from several parties as to the status of the apparent ban on cycling on the north-south route. This is not only a vital, and growing, commuter route but is clearly shown as permitted for "responsible cycling" in official publications (TfL Cycling Guide 7).
      We do not expect an immediate resolution. In the meantime front-line officers of the Borough are in a typically difficult situation. They appear to have been given powers to issue FPNs. They clearly are finding the huge use of the newly refurbished tunnel very unexpected. They are not there just to target cyclists but also to control the expected crowds of pedestrians and to prevent skate-boarding. Some of us at Greenwich Cyclists have spent time politely discussing the absurdity of the current situation with these Wardens. Maybe many more of us can find time to do the same, until we have answers from their chiefs.
      Ian Blore, on behalf of Greenwich Cyclists

    • Louise
      We are waiting for a response to our concerns from the Royal Borough. Sustrans and LCC are advising Greenwich Cyclists on the issue of the attempt to control
      Message 2 of 8 , May 8, 2012
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        We are waiting for a response to our concerns from the Royal Borough. Sustrans and LCC are advising Greenwich Cyclists on the issue of the attempt to control cycling in Cutty Sark Gardens.
        In the meantime we should express our view as to what status this open space should have. It was a space in which "pedestrians have priority but responsible cycling is permitted" (according to TfL) though could be temporarily closed for special events.
        I believe the whole area should be shared space with a very low speed limit (5mph). Special events could be signalled in advance. When the space is host to a thousand visitors from nowhere I'm more than happy to walk.
        Ian Blore
      • rob.z.wood@uk.pwc.com
        That proposal sounds very sensible and one few rational people would argue with. I guess it has no chance! ... From: Louise [louiseatbeadles@yahoo.co.uk]
        Message 3 of 8 , May 8, 2012
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          That proposal sounds very sensible and one few rational people would argue with. I guess it has no chance!


            From: "Louise" [louiseatbeadles@...]
            Sent: 08/05/2012 16:41 GMT
            To: greenwichcyclists@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [greenwichcyclists] Cycling at Cutty Sark Gardens


           

          We are waiting for a response to our concerns from the Royal Borough. Sustrans and LCC are advising Greenwich Cyclists on the issue of the attempt to control cycling in Cutty Sark Gardens.
          In the meantime we should express our view as to what status this open space should have. It was a space in which "pedestrians have priority but responsible cycling is permitted" (according to TfL) though could be temporarily closed for special events.
          I believe the whole area should be shared space with a very low speed limit (5mph). Special events could be signalled in advance. When the space is host to a thousand visitors from nowhere I'm more than happy to walk.
          Ian Blore




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        • Andrew Beswetherick
          Louise, Many thanks for this. I hope this absurd situation is resolved soon. Andrew ________________________________ From: Louise
          Message 4 of 8 , May 13, 2012
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            Louise,

            Many thanks for this. I hope this absurd situation is resolved soon.

            Andrew


            From: Louise <louiseatbeadles@...>
            To: greenwichcyclists@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Thursday, May 3, 2012 11:29 AM
            Subject: [greenwichcyclists] Cycling at Cutty Sark Gardens

             
            Many of us have been dismayed by the recent attempt to prohibit cycling across Cutty Sark Gardens (CSG). Especially coming so soon after the much-delayed opening of the foot tunnel lifts and their little "teething problems".
            The situation as we understand it today is as follows. The many Environmental Service Wardens from the Borough have been instructed to prevent cycling in a north-south direction on either side of the Cutty Sark. They have declared that they are allowing cycling east-west, that is in front of the tunnel entrance. Greenwich Cyclists is seeking urgent clarification from several parties as to the status of the apparent ban on cycling on the north-south route. This is not only a vital, and growing, commuter route but is clearly shown as permitted for "responsible cycling" in official publications (TfL Cycling Guide 7).
            We do not expect an immediate resolution. In the meantime front-line officers of the Borough are in a typically difficult situation. They appear to have been given powers to issue FPNs. They clearly are finding the huge use of the newly refurbished tunnel very unexpected. They are not there just to target cyclists but also to control the expected crowds of pedestrians and to prevent skate-boarding. Some of us at Greenwich Cyclists have spent time politely discussing the absurdity of the current situation with these Wardens. Maybe many more of us can find time to do the same, until we have answers from their chiefs.
            Ian Blore, on behalf of Greenwich Cyclists



          • rob.z.wood@uk.pwc.com
            Thanks for that - it does at least seem to set it the problem! Is the east-west (and presumably west-east, but stranger things have been known...) accessible
            Message 5 of 8 , May 14, 2012
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              Thanks for that - it does at least seem to set it the problem! Is the east-west (and presumably west-east, but stranger things have been known...) accessible from the roads? I'd relate,y happily find a slight detour while silliness is averted. I machine, if nothing else, the funding for such "environmental service wardens" (who makes these names up?) will dry up!



              Sent with Good (www.good.com)



              -------- Original Message --------

              From : greenwichcyclists@yahoogroups.com
              To : "greenwichcyclists@yahoogroups.com" <greenwichcyclists@yahoogroups.com>
              Cc :
              Sent on : 13/05/2012 15:59:28
              Subject : Re: [greenwichcyclists] Cycling at Cutty Sark Gardens

               

              Louise,

              Many thanks for this. I hope this absurd situation is resolved soon.

              Andrew



              From: Louise <louiseatbeadles@...>
              To: greenwichcyclists@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Thursday, May 3, 2012 11:29 AM
              Subject: [greenwichcyclists] Cycling at Cutty Sark Gardens


               
              Many of us have been dismayed by the recent attempt to prohibit cycling across Cutty Sark Gardens (CSG). Especially coming so soon after the much-delayed opening of the foot tunnel lifts and their little "teething problems".
              The situation as we understand it today is as follows. The many Environmental Service Wardens from the Borough have been instructed to prevent cycling in a north-south direction on either side of the Cutty Sark. They have declared that they are allowing cycling east-west, that is in front of the tunnel entrance. Greenwich Cyclists is seeking urgent clarification from several parties as to the status of the apparent ban on cycling on the north-south route. This is not only a vital, and growing, commuter route but is clearly shown as permitted for "responsible cycling" in official publications (TfL Cycling Guide 7).
              We do not expect an immediate resolution. In the meantime front-line officers of the Borough are in a typically difficult situation. They appear to have been given powers to issue FPNs. They clearly are finding the huge use of the newly refurbished tunnel very unexpected. They are not there just to target cyclists but also to control the expected crowds of pedestrians and to prevent skate-boarding. Some of us at Greenwich Cyclists have spent time politely discussing the absurdity of the current situation with these Wardens. Maybe many more of us can find time to do the same, until we have answers from their chiefs.
              Ian Blore, on behalf of Greenwich Cyclists






              -------------------- End of message text --------------------
              Audit today and tomorrow: The investment community shares its views on reporting
              Visit - http://www.pwc.co.uk/eng/publications/audit-today-tomorrow-investor-survey.html
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              the intended addressee to the extent agreed in the relevant contract for the matter to which this email relates (if any). PricewaterhouseCoopers
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              London WC2N 6RH. It is authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority for designated investment business. PwC may monitor outgoing
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            • lurcher67
              I would like to add my voice to this as a new member to the forum. I have also found the current situation with the wardens galling after the 3 years of
              Message 6 of 8 , May 16, 2012
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                I would like to add my voice to this as a new member to the forum. I have also found the current situation with the wardens galling after the 3 years of disruption and the North lift seemingly closed after 1 mont

                I have also engaged them in conversation twice. I specifically asked for clarification about when they aren't present at night (at the weekends after midnight when I am using this route to get home from work)if I am expected to walk or cycle, when walking may compromise my safety with the drunks who are often tottering about in the Gardens. They dont have an answer (and why should they). I then follow this up with asking them when the cycle path is going is going to be open; expressing great surprise when told there isnt going to be one. This is the issue I think after spending £11.5 million of public money.

                I have contacted my Green council member locally to see if he can bring some pressure to bear to get some common sense restored.

                Peter Shirley


                --- In greenwichcyclists@yahoogroups.com, rob.z.wood@... wrote:
                >
                >
                > Thanks for that - it does at least seem to set it the problem! Is the
                > east-west (and presumably west-east, but stranger things have been
                > known...) accessible from the roads? I'd relate,y happily find a slight
                > detour while silliness is averted. I machine, if nothing else, the funding
                > for such "environmental service wardens" (who makes these names up?) will
                > dry up!
                >
                >
                >
                > Sent with Good (www.good.com)
                >
                >
                >
                > -------- Original Message --------
                >
                > From : greenwichcyclists@yahoogroups.com
                > To : "greenwichcyclists@yahoogroups.com"
                > <greenwichcyclists@yahoogroups.com>
                > Cc :
                > Sent on : 13/05/2012 15:59:28
                > Subject : Re: [greenwichcyclists] Cycling at Cutty Sark Gardens
                >
                >
                >
                > Louise,
                >
                > Many thanks for this. I hope this absurd situation is resolved soon.
                >
                > Andrew
                >
                >
                >
                > From: Louise <louiseatbeadles@...>
                > To: greenwichcyclists@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Thursday, May 3, 2012 11:29 AM
                > Subject: [greenwichcyclists] Cycling at Cutty Sark Gardens
                >
                >
                >
                > Many of us have been dismayed by the recent attempt to prohibit cycling
                > across Cutty Sark Gardens (CSG). Especially coming so soon after the
                > much-delayed opening of the foot tunnel lifts and their little "teething
                > problems".
                > The situation as we understand it today is as follows. The many
                > Environmental Service Wardens from the Borough have been instructed to
                > prevent cycling in a north-south direction on either side of the Cutty
                > Sark. They have declared that they are allowing cycling east-west, that is
                > in front of the tunnel entrance. Greenwich Cyclists is seeking urgent
                > clarification from several parties as to the status of the apparent ban on
                > cycling on the north-south route. This is not only a vital, and growing,
                > commuter route but is clearly shown as permitted for "responsible cycling"
                > in official publications (TfL Cycling Guide 7).
                > We do not expect an immediate resolution. In the meantime front-line
                > officers of the Borough are in a typically difficult situation. They appear
                > to have been given powers to issue FPNs. They clearly are finding the huge
                > use of the newly refurbished tunnel very unexpected. They are not there
                > just to target cyclists but also to control the expected crowds of
                > pedestrians and to prevent skate-boarding. Some of us at Greenwich Cyclists
                > have spent time politely discussing the absurdity of the current situation
                > with these Wardens. Maybe many more of us can find time to do the same,
                > until we have answers from their chiefs.
                > Ian Blore, on behalf of Greenwich Cyclists
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ______________________________________________________________________
                >
                >
                >
                > -------------------- End of message text --------------------
                > Audit today and tomorrow: The investment community shares its views on reporting
                > Visit - http://www.pwc.co.uk/eng/publications/audit-today-tomorrow-investor-survey.html
                > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                > This email is confidential and is intended for the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, please delete the email and do not use it in
                > any way. PricewaterhouseCoopers LLP does not accept or assume responsibility for any use of or reliance on this email by anyone, other than
                > the intended addressee to the extent agreed in the relevant contract for the matter to which this email relates (if any). PricewaterhouseCoopers
                > LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England under registered number OC303525, with its registered address at 1 Embankment Place,
                > London WC2N 6RH. It is authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority for designated investment business. PwC may monitor outgoing
                > and incoming emails and other telecommunications on its email and telecommunications systems; by replying to this email you give your consent to
                > such monitoring.
                > ----------------------------------------------------------------
                > Visit our website http://www.pwc.com/uk
                >
              • rob.z.wood@uk.pwc.com
                Possibly some new intelligence (poor choice of word...). I decided to play the game and join the east west route via Creek Road. I road along the bike
                Message 7 of 8 , May 17, 2012
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                  Possibly some new "intelligence" (poor choice of word...).  I decided to play the game and join the "east west" route via Creek Road. I road along the bike path (actually West-East!). As I got to the new slabbed area, maybe 50 yards from the tunnel I saw whjat looked like a new sign (still inside the safety fence) saying "no skating, skateboarding, cycling, walk for 125m".  If I were pedantic I would point out that the sign was very high up and not clearly in a cyclist's/skater's line of sight. No "wardens" in evidence at 8:15....


                    From: Andrew Beswetherick [andrewbmh@...]
                    Sent: 13/05/2012 07:59 MST
                    To: "greenwichcyclists@yahoogroups.com" <greenwichcyclists@yahoogroups.com>
                    Subject: Re: [greenwichcyclists] Cycling at Cutty Sark Gardens


                   

                  Louise,

                  Many thanks for this. I hope this absurd situation is resolved soon.

                  Andrew


                  From: Louise <louiseatbeadles@...>
                  To: greenwichcyclists@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Thursday, May 3, 2012 11:29 AM
                  Subject: [greenwichcyclists] Cycling at Cutty Sark Gardens

                   
                  Many of us have been dismayed by the recent attempt to prohibit cycling across Cutty Sark Gardens (CSG). Especially coming so soon after the much-delayed opening of the foot tunnel lifts and their little "teething problems".
                  The situation as we understand it today is as follows. The many Environmental Service Wardens from the Borough have been instructed to prevent cycling in a north-south direction on either side of the Cutty Sark. They have declared that they are allowing cycling east-west, that is in front of the tunnel entrance. Greenwich Cyclists is seeking urgent clarification from several parties as to the status of the apparent ban on cycling on the north-south route. This is not only a vital, and growing, commuter route but is clearly shown as permitted for "responsible cycling" in official publications (TfL Cycling Guide 7).
                  We do not expect an immediate resolution. In the meantime front-line officers of the Borough are in a typically difficult situation. They appear to have been given powers to issue FPNs. They clearly are finding the huge use of the newly refurbished tunnel very unexpected. They are not there just to target cyclists but also to control the expected crowds of pedestrians and to prevent skate-boarding. Some of us at Greenwich Cyclists have spent time politely discussing the absurdity of the current situation with these Wardens. Maybe many more of us can find time to do the same, until we have answers from their chiefs.
                  Ian Blore, on behalf of Greenwich Cyclists






                  -------------------- End of message text --------------------
                  Audit today and tomorrow: The investment community shares its views on reporting
                  Visit - http://www.pwc.co.uk/eng/publications/audit-today-tomorrow-investor-survey.html
                  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  This email is confidential and is intended for the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, please delete the email and do not use it in
                  any way. PricewaterhouseCoopers LLP does not accept or assume responsibility for any use of or reliance on this email by anyone, other than
                  the intended addressee to the extent agreed in the relevant contract for the matter to which this email relates (if any). PricewaterhouseCoopers
                  LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England under registered number OC303525, with its registered address at 1 Embankment Place,
                  London WC2N 6RH. It is authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority for designated investment business. PwC may monitor outgoing
                  and incoming emails and other telecommunications on its email and telecommunications systems; by replying to this email you give your consent to
                  such monitoring.
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